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Cities around the world that are reducing car access



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭ Citizen  Six

    I'm 12.5c per km on a tank average. In a 15 year old diesel.

    But I totally get your point. Sure the amount of people who just idle their cars for no reason is unreal. Passed a building site at the end of my road this week, at lunch time. Six of the workers in their vehicles, eating lunch, with the engines going.

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell

    It is the sunk cost of owning a car that causes many owners to use the car unnecessarily for short journeys that might be made more appropriately by walking or by bike.

    When I pass a marina full of very expensive yachts that are tied up 90% to 100% of the time, I think of the waste of assets for 15 minutes of sailing time per day if actual sailing time was spread out over the year. It is like owning a holiday home so you can visit it for the month of August.

    People do not understand their effect on other people, and that they can be their own worst enemy.

  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,378 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine

  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭ p_haugh

    Works have started on the Liffey Street upgrade! Upper Liffey Street has been in need of a refresh for a while now.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 44,552 CMod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder

    there's a section in here about stroads, and quite aptly i was listening to it while driving up through ballymun; if ever there was a dublin example of a stroad, i'd say the main road through ballymun is a classic.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭ bb1234567

    They faced backlash in London too though and the only reason most were built was under the cover of smoke during COVID when nobody was taking much notice. As usual nobody actually minds as much as they think they will once it's actually all said and done.

    I live in similar type of neighbourhoods with these interventions near Brixton, but today post covid when new cycle lanes, pedestrianisation or traffic calming are proposed there's 'community outcry' from the usual loud mouths. There's literally a group called 'save herne hill' who protest here and put up flyers because the council want to reduce a 3 lane one way road down to two to put in cycle lanes. Deep second hang cringe on behalf of that group when I realised what they were 'fighting for'. JFC.

    Post edited by bb1234567 on

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,988 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk

    I lived around that way 10 years ago or so and I don't think anyone even knew what an LTN was. Where in Herne Hill are they doing this? Used to drink in the Prince Regent by the Lido! Lovely place.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,461 ✭✭✭ bb1234567

    Yes it's lovely! But the junction by the Half moon pub could do with some more pedestrian friendly measures.

    This is the road which is proposed to be made two lane.,-0.1013699,3a,75y,354.63h,80.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shKfK-FMOwEjysZDphBEdWQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    Additionally they want to pedestrianise this road by the station.,-0.1012471,3a,75y,323.82h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slf1hVHiroOVZ4IGkyCvXQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

    It all sounds great to me , and there are other proposed measures, some streets in the area also being made closed to through traffic I think.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,988 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk

    vaguely related to this thread but it's actually pretty hilarious, I wonder how many people have paid heed to that sign over the years, i'd go out on a limb and say zero. we need a guerilla sign removing team at night like the tire extinguishers.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭ cgcsb

    Dublin is full of silly amounts of signage and associated poles with no rational explanation. If you're depending on signs to reach the m50 from South William St you'll be very lost.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 44,552 CMod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder

    IIRC when they put up a standard sign showing motorists there's a public car park ahead, they're not allowed 'advertise' the car park by naming it.

    so they put up a second sign with the name of the car park, in case people are looking for a specific one. so you end up with two signs each time, letting motorists know where the car park is.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭ McGrath5

    Did anyone see the incredible bike parking facility recently opened in Amsterdam? I know its the Netherlands and how they do cycling infrastructure but this on another level.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭ cgcsb

    an ambitious plan for the south quays. Hopefully DCC have the nerve to get it done.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,988 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk

    this is a great thread. actually where I'm from in Dublin has plenty of shops but the greengrocers and butchers are all gone due to supermarket influx, but there are plenty of supermarkets within a 15 minute walk.

    what worries me are the swathes of new apartments and houses being built in places like clongriffin and elsewhere that don't seem to have any amenities whatsoever nearby. no pubs or cafes, nothing.

    what's the solution to this? should councils be subsidising businesses to start in these areas? the overheads are so expensive in ireland now that no one is going to risk competing against the supermarkets everyone will drive to.

    also it's funny how this 15 minute city thing is being hijacked by the loonies as some kind of communist credit scheme, or something.

  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox

    I have been looking for to seeing this case come back up. The Strand Road Trial is back in the courts, with the council rightly appealing the original decision. At the time, I and others were astonished at the judgment, with the judge seemingly ignoring all the evidence that the works were to be a time limited trial, and that the council had the right to do so. I have zero legal knowledge, but I knew enough that the decision was extremely weird, and it seems that the President of the High Court, along with a member of the Supreme Court and another high court judge, agrees.

    They haven't made a judgement themselves yet, but from this article, they are not pleased with the High Courts behaviour or judgement in this case at all. Check this out:

    Referring to Browne’s outline of the High Court judgment that planning permission was required, Justice Collins said that the “conclusion is wrong”. He said it was an “explicit statement” that appears intended to “bind the council in the future”.

    Justice Collins said that if the High Court decision was incorrect that needs to be corrected rather than letting such a precedent stand. He said that it would be wrong to let a judgment stand that implies virtually any form of traffic calming requires planning permission.

    These are not the words of people willing to let the current decision stand.

  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭ noelfirl

    Fingers crossed from that initial sounding for a reversal of the decision.

    But presumably then to the Supreme Court for the burghers and denizens of Sandymount, and their feckless councillor enablers? After all, this is a case of national and indeed constitutional importance... 😁

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,630 ✭✭✭✭ DaCor

    I can't see Mannix et al taking this to the SC

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭ cgcsb

    Are they not at all concerned about the 'mortification'? Or is that a working class concern.

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell

    It is ironic that currently Strand Road is closed for Northbound traffic from Merrion Gates, so the problem with traffic so complained about by the residents of Sandymount appears to be OK as no-one is complaining. I have noticed that the Merrion Road has much heavier traffic of late.

    [I think there is a major water pipe going in along Strand Road which is why the road is closed.]

  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭ p_haugh

    It seems more congested yes, but then any time I've been down it there's only been a few cars that proceed to turn down Serpentine Road - most continue straight towards Ballsbridge

    Also bear in mind that there's roadworks around Booterstown-Trimblestone which probably aids in clumping all of the cars together.

  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭ p_haugh

    Seen this today, finally there'll be pretty much continuous pedestrianisation from Talbot Street junction to Capel Street from the end of this month!

    In terms of pedestrian areas, the north inner city centre should look like this in the near future (yellow lines being pedestrian areas):

    The strech between Capel Street and Talbot Street alone will be just over 700 meters long.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭ serfboard

    I was over in London in the last few weeks. I came out of Euston train station and was walking around the area. This was at about 5PM.

    When I came out of the train station I expected to hear the usual roar of a city. What really struck me was how quiet it was. Almost eerily quiet. You could even hear the birds clearly.

    And this was despite the fact that the area is not pedestrianised.

    I put it down to several factors:

    1. It was a Monday and a lot of people work from home on Mondays now.
    2. The congestion charge in London removing a lot of cars from the roads.
    3. The electrification of the remaining fleet of cars and vans. In fact whenever I did hear an old diesel engine, it really stood out.

    As well as cutting down on actual pollution, the amount by which the changes have reduced noise pollution was striking.

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 34,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle

    Dot density map of car ownership in London. 1 dot apparently equals 10 households...

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell

    That is a lot of no-cars in a household.

    Is it poverty or congestion charges?

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,630 ✭✭✭✭ DaCor

    Its more likely down to good alternatives i.e. PT (Buses & tube) and the expansion of cycling infrastructure. There are now more people cycling in London than driving

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,988 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk

    you don't really need one so it's just an unnecessary expense. where i am in hackney it's really quiet too, hardly any cars around until you go down to kingsland road towards the city and even that isn't too bad. you'd only really need a car if you're leaving the city everything else is accessible by pub tran or walking/bike. i honestly can't think of anyone in my social circle that owns a car here, except one but he lives a bit further out in croydon direction.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,526 ✭✭✭ cgcsb

    It's funny because last time I was in London I found public transport to be quite poor, feck all capacity relative to the amount of people trying to use it. Poor frequency on a lot of lines, again relative to usage, interchanges were often cumbersome. And Needless to say the most expensive public transport I've been on anywhere in the world. Yet they've still followed a policy of car reduction. Here any attempt to restrict cars is usually met with 'improve public transport first'.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,630 ✭✭✭✭ DaCor

    Just on the recent posts, here's the article with the details on numbers of cars/bike