Cities around the world that are reducing car access

Sam Russell

Of course making public transport free, or nearly free, would remove the cost argument. Making all day parking expensive would make all day parking a thing of the past. Encouraging car sharing would deal with the cost and parking issues. Now not everyone could benefit from these measures, but if many benefit, then those who cannot would also see less traffic, so that would be good.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427266#Comment_119427266

It's a bit more nuanced than that. In a lot of cases it's people not being able to afford the type of house they want in an area they want, so they choose to live out in the sticks. I have friends who bought in places like Duleek and Ashbourne, and drive to work now in the city. They could have bought houses where I bought mine in Dublin, but a lot of people would turn their noses up at the area.

So why should people who live in the city have to suffer all the traffic because of this?

A lot of people made their own bed.

cgcsb

Houses in finglas are cheaper than houses in naas

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427480#Comment_119427480

The problem is that a massive number of people within that ring are driving in. There is not much getting around that and it will continue to be the problem no matter what is done. Very few people affected by the North Strand issue do not have good public transport into Dublin city centre. What better thinking might have worked better?

The new 2€ fare covers a fair chunk of area, I'm surprised if that is more expensive than driving for anyone within it. For those public transport is not viable we should look to improve it, but again there is no getting away from the fact that public transport (mostly buses) can only be improved if we reallocate road space for it.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427571#Comment_119427571

For the most part cost is not the prohibitive reason for using public transport. It is frequency and reliability.

Our trains are too expensive, but outside that there is going to be pretty edge cases where travelling by car is cheaper. It is more convenient.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429225#Comment_119429225

Pre Leap, pre €2 fares and with cheaper fuel "it's dearer than driving" came up a lot here.

People who notionally always had their spouse and 17 year old twins to go with them so it was four adult cash fares being compared to a few litres of 1.29 petrol and the cheapest crash-era surface carpark thats now an apartment block.

Ben D Bus

Cllr Niall Ring complaining that residents of Ballybough and North Strand will find it more difficult to drive to the city centre. Good! There are very few occasions and very few excuses to drive from there into town!

He wants locals to be able to use the bus lane.

"Cllr Ring said without this compromise residents will have to travel out of the city first before they can follow the diversions to get back into the city centre."

https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2022/0804/1313943-dublin-clontarf/

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429225#Comment_119429225

Maybe cost is not a prohibitive reason to not use PT, but most people would find free PT hard to resist.

It frees the user from the traffic jams, finding and paying for parking, paying for fuel, and paying for the extra servicing. If they could do without the car - or the second car - that is a huge saving. It is also less stressful - if one can avoid the antisocial ********.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429695#Comment_119429695

All of these things are still true even with the incredibly moderate fare.

I'm not opposed to free public transport, but I just do not think it solves anything.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429704#Comment_119429704

Well, there are a large percentage of people already have free PT, like those over 65 (or is it 66), and they use it - well they do if the PT is available to them.

One benefit of getting more onto PT is the consequent reduction in traffic, allowing buses to move more freely.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429652#Comment_119429652

The absolute state of that. And people laugh at the Healy-Raes.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429727#Comment_119429727

It is already the case for many people that PT would be cheaper. I do not think making it free will have the impact that you think.

gjim

Making something "free" solves the problem of underutilisation of an asset which has/is already been paid for or where the running cost is fixed - but this is NOT the fundamental problem with PT in Dublin. The problem with PT in Dublin is that there isn't enough capacity and isn't enough coverage - particularly of rail, which is the only mode which can provide some confidence of journey time. A far better idea would be to fully externalise the cost of driving and parking a polluting/dangerous/inefficient vehicle into the city centre and use the money to fund improvements to PT infrastructure - particularly trams, metro and heavy rail.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429652#Comment_119429652

Am i correct in thinking that the headline could have been: Councillor who was aware of the plans but kept quiet suddenly complains about plans to the media when some ill-informed voters complain?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119430417#Comment_119430417

Pretty much

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427472#Comment_119427472

I've see the same in France, in small villages. All infrastructure is in place, and you buy the plot and build your house.

As for the glass bottle site, hasn't that been pretty much decided at this stage? Although I was surprised to see all temp offices and machinery pull out after they finished the clearing and securing of the perimeter this year. I managed to relocate a number of semi mature trees from the site last year before the whole thing was bulldozed.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119429704#Comment_119429704

Luxembourg and Tallin have the free PT and have observed a decrease in walking and cycling as a result.

Germany is experimenting with the €9 monthly ticket for all PT except inter City transport. They've seen big drop in traffic but massive problems with overcrowding on trains during their normal maintenance season. Germany's infrastructure is really creeking now.

So far I think Spain has come up with the best solution to fares, they're going to tax the bejeezus out of energy companies gouging money out of people and use that money to make regional trains free. The regional trains aren't competing with cycling and walking due to distance and fares in cities are among the lowest in Europe anyway. It also improves the lot of people who are priced out of cities and forced to do the long commute.

I think our €2 fare is good and if it were up to me I'd apply the same punative taxes to energy gougers and use that to make the €2 90 minute fare apply to all of Ireland with the exception of intercity trains and buses.

Sam Russell

When I say free PT, I include 'nearly free' - by that I would include a €1 fare for say the 90 min fare, perhaps with a public service card.

The way to dissuade urban car use would be the gradual removal of on-street parking - by removing the spaces a few at a time. It would require the enforcement of restrictions otherwise illegal parking will become the norm (again).

Ush1

Price is not a barrier to entry apart from trains. It's frequency, reliability and convenience. Also safety for some.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431412#Comment_119431412

Yes the Oslo model is the most effective, remove city centre parking and through routes for cars, pedestrianise more streets etc. Dublin still has 4/5 Lane roads in the centre. Trying to get around the city centre is very difficult with all the cars, we could make city Quay and Eden Quay bus and bike only and that would remove a lot of through driving routes. I firmly believe George's st/Dame St Junction up to fishamble Street should be bus and bike only with widened footpaths also. Then you'd see a real drop in cars in the core of the city. The car parks would probably shut up shop voluntarily.

Citizen Six

But you see huge resistance from the car park lobby to something like that. They won't take it lying down, and unfortunately, they do seem to wield some strange power over DCC.

magicbastarder

they have power over DCC in that DCC gave them planning permission to build their car parks and can't just shut them down without facing legal action.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431679#Comment_119431679

Just make access to the car parks by an awkward route like traffic lights that rarely go green and then only briefly - then users will not bother.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431679#Comment_119431679

I don't doubt they will face legal action, but I refuse to believe that it is not fundamentally within their power to do this. If we need to CPO the stupid things so be it, but a decision to give planning permission to a car park 30/40 years ago can not mean we cannot improve the city today.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119431655#Comment_119431655

I think that's been changing recently. Brown Thomas washed their hands of 'Grafton car park'. Arnotts have reduced their spaces. Capel st and liffey St are being pedestrianised. The car parks can still have access with cars banned from the central quays.

magicbastarder

not exactly about cities:

https://twitter.com/jerosullivanRK/status/1559084391489572864

Citizen Six

I saw that earlier. Stop access for cars. Build a carpark close to the entrance if you have to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119477185#Comment_119477185

why would anyone in their right mind want to go to a beach that’s also a car park? Some people are nuts

loyatemu

my local Blue Flag beach you can't bring your dog onto the sand - how is it possible to have cars driving on the beach and still get a Blue Flag?

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119478547#Comment_119478547

Maybe it's cause the car doesn't shít on the beach or something, which brings down the water quality?