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Global cities reducing car access

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  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭ gjim


    I've read it - it doesn't answer the question - it just evades it.

    I'm not interested in the age of your city, nor what you think "posters on this forum" are suggesting. Nor what you think makes a country reasonable. Or what a "measured way" is. This is just weaselling.

    It's a simple binary yes/no question. Do you believe it would be physically possible for everyone to use a car to get around the city?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    I do not believe that in 30 years' time everyone will use a car because not everyone uses a car now and not everyone who has access to a car including myself always relies on a car to get where they need to go. For me sometimes it is simply more convenient to cycle in on a rent-a-bike, not even my own bike along the 4km uninteruppted bike lane and leave it at a drop off point than to take my own bike, my own moped, my own car, hired e-scooter, bus or local rail.

    I have no time for this hectoring. Go away Gjim. I don't want to engage with you. You demand that I answer contrived silly questions and present them as being killer blows which would undermine the basis of my position.

    What I have teased out is that the most vocal on this thread haven't got a clue as to what traffic management strategies are in use on the Continent and their research is no more than Twitter links from biased commentators.

    practically every intersection in the city where I live is part of a coordinated Green Wave allowing traffic to flow avoiding stationary traffic. One particular approach to the City has sequenced lights for 5 km and works like poetry in motion, others are grade separated, others are hewn through stone. All required investment but it was done rather than pursuing the lunacy of banning cars from the City.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Sounds like where you are has already implemented the hierarchy of users that Ireland is just now starting to implement, that's great, I look forward to seeing it happen here to.

    Would love to know the city you are in so we could look at what they have done



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    It won't happen in Ireland because all the tinpots here are screaming to ban cars from the City.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    Don't talk down to me. My viewpoint is more grounded and realistic than yours.

    Cars that stay on a driveway and never turn a wheel are OK according to the consensus around here. A little nudge here, a little tap there, a slap across the calves with a ruler and soon it will be so inconvenient to use cars that "They" will see things "Our" way and abandon their cars. A Group here are trying to impose their views by stealth on the Public.

    The hysterics are from other posters here and are the problem. Evidence of the anti-car culture is is the cheering here of the undemocratic attempt at closure of Strand road, retention of toll and restriction of access to East Link which is totally counter-productive. "Adjustments" to College Green and the Quays which makes them a no-go area, destruction of downtown Dun Laoighhaire at the expense of the sustainabilithy of the local economy, etc... It is all insidious and shows a bald contempt for cars and those who use them in this forum.

    You, collectively, are a bunch of Zealots who despise cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,668 ✭✭✭✭ AndrewJRenko


    By stealth? It must be the least stealthy stealth-campaign ever!

    Do we all despise our own cars every time we drive them too?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,512 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    The irony of it all is that you see no issue with the likes yourself enforcing a car culture on everyone else that is both unsustainable and detrimental to society.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    You haven't got a clue. My preference is always to go on foot where practical. Cars and their users are not per se detrimental to society. You have been brainwashed if you actually believe that but since this is where the cult members hang out I am not surprised to hear this dogma in this sub-forum.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    I'm not sure leaning into the hysteria is the smart move.

    Moving on, still waiting for you to share the city name that you like to hold up as a shining example. Or a similar one in the same country if you want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    I will not share the city name as it is an unexceptional German city and I don#t want the tag team abuse which is part and parcel of the groupthink on this forum. If you visit cities like Baden-Baden or Wiesbaden or Karlsruhe or Nürnberg or Freiberg you'll see proper transportation solutions implemented intelligently. It would be a good change from visiting Twitter feeds of the self-annointed car hating Swamis who you venerate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭ what_traffic


    I spent a summer in Freiburg am Brisgau in 1998, even then it was beyond any Irish City that exists today.

    Its probably around size of Cork City.

    Was excellent for bikes and trams back then, its probably even far better today.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 41,210 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    sounds like the sort of thing some people in here might be interested in:





  • Registered Users Posts: 3,807 ✭✭✭ woody22


    Sounds wonderful. Seriously how many people buy 2nd hand dishwashers.

    and have a car big enough to fit one



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,793 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    Imagine a person using a wheelchair, walking frame, a stick or a blind person ?….be no fun trying to access the roadway to walk or manoeuvre oneself in a chair from a physical point of view and also with vehicles passing. .. of course we know in Ireland the likes of the council, Gardai will kowtow to the business interests of individuals as opposed to the safety interests of rank and file public… can’t be inconveniencing business people don’t ya know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap



    Are you seriously trying to claim that the suggestions from the usual suspects here on thread are trying to mimic what has been done and will be done in Karlsruhe?

    Have you ever been to Karlsruhe. Do you know that there is a tunnel underneath it for cars and more tunnels are coming. Baden-Baden has similar tunnels and you can travel most of the length of the city only needing to emerge at street level close to your destination. Those Cities are anything but anti-car in that they invest to accommodate them alongside other legitimate methods of transport.

    Here is a multibillion project in Karlsruhe that you do not seem to be aware of and will blow your mind: https://bnn.de/karlsruhe/karlsruhe-stadt/kombiloesung-karlsruhe-alle-infos-u-bahn-strassenbahn-autotunnel-kosten-fertigstellung

    That is proper investment which is done because stealing road space from existing commuters doesn't work even though some overbearing posters here have tried to coerce me in to agreeing that space must be taken away from cars to achieve "their" dreams.

    There are pages and pages of "ban cars", "restrict cars", "block cars" vendettas on this thread. Getting around Karlsruhe on my visits to the City in a car has been a pleasure.

    It is only one page since a Poster said of cars "they should be demonised, they've ruined cities". Why wasn't that unarguably extreme view "moderated".

    Also, of all the Cities I mentioned Karlsruhe was the one planned from the time of horse and carriage with very wide thoroughfares.

    I'm the one who had to educate these posters as to the presence of Umweltzones but those tinpots are still going on about polluting cars.

    The ignorance of posters on this thread is on another level and only matched by their arrogance, certain that they "know better" and happy to inflict misery on a commuting public with their half-baked ideas. They know nothing of properly operated communal car services or shared road spaces for strassenbahn and cars or how signalling/prioritization of traffic works in practice or even how the traffic lights at intersections work to maximise throughput. They don't know that most bicycle lanes are shared with pedestrians or that cars can turn left so long as no pedestrians are crossing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    My co-workers who live in Karlsruhe would be mostly using their company cars to pick up bulky items. My Manager who lives in Karlsruhe has a capacious Renault Grand Scenic and for all the public transport options available to him continues to drive to work when not working from home.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Happy to take a look at that tunnel project, however, you're still continuing to deal in slinging mud and fud so to be honest, as you've shown no interest in an adult discussion I'll not be engaging with you further.

    Take care

    Post edited by DaCor on


  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭ gjim


    Indeed. I attempted to tease out their position/view or what, specifically, they are actually proposing to allow people to commute around a heavily congested city like Dublin, but asking for a specific answer is apparently "hectoring".

    Joining a DISCUSSION BOARD with no willingness to actually engage in discussion (which requires you to accept that others' opinions may not align but with the goal, presumably, of arguing a case), is weird. A more sensible option in that case would be standing on a street corner and shouting at the clouds.

    Their delusion that they are the only ones with experience of living in Mitteleuropa is also funny. I'm not sure how long haphaphap has been living abroad - I'm also an emmigrant but even before leaving it was obvious to me that this sort of "lecturing from abroad" just makes you look like a twat. Having said that, I believe that there are lots of important lessons to be learned by how things are done well in other countries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,918 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    Looking forward to a traffic free Capel st, it was great last year. It leaves great strand st with greately reduced traffic also. Great strand could do with some proper paving, wider footpaths and reduced parking, give the street a function other than a through route.

    Then this impacts the pedestrianisation of liffey st. The Arnotts crowd will be moaning that with liffey st and Capel st pedestrianised their only exit route is via jervis st or green street. Of course that's no reason to moan but be sure the journos will play the tune of the car parking association.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,340 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Mod: @haphaphap

    It is not for a mod, in my opinion, to moderate views, no matter how extreme. Moderation is about keeping order, particularly those disruptive types at the back of the class.

    Outside of that, do not attack posters, and keep to the topic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    I have kept to the topic which is traffic management strategies in more enlightened countries w.r.t. the requirements of the travelling public.

    It isn't my fault that many here mis-diagnose the problem and propose innappropriate or counter-productive solutions based on their prejudices against private vehicles.

    For the last decade a very large brownfield quarter of the city I live in has been regenerated and private vehicular access rather than being restricted remains a component of the approach to transport and connectivity. That regeneration will continue for most of the next decade. Private Transport is certainly calmed through various strategies but isn't prohibited. People here forming their opinions from reading Twitter and Blogs seem to think that City Planners in Europe have turned their backs on cars. They haven't. It seems something has been lost in translation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    My last sentence in the last post was "It seems something has been lost in translation."

    Do you understand the implications of that ruling for future bikepaths; They won't be built as the obligations on the Local Authority to allocate space are too exacting. The paths must be broad enough to allow cyclists cycle side by side in both directions.

    For the street in question, Kleestraße, out of a combination of necessity and bloodymindedness the Local Authority removed the parking spaces. This isn't a win for cyclists as this was already a fahrradstrasse and only residents' vehicles, disabled drivers and delivery vehicles had access to the street. Residents of the street will now have to pay for parking elsewhere which is, if it is anything like my city, probably be around 80 to 100 euro per month.

    That is what is known as a pyrrhic victory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,512 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3


    Why should people be able to store their property in public spaces for free?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    Is that the Strasse you really want to saunter down?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,853 ✭✭✭ correct horse battery staple


    Look at those shiny bypasses on outskirts of those maps /s



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