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Global cities reducing car access

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    An elected representative only tells you what you want to hear. There goes my flock, I must follow.

    This thread revolves around the prejudices of those who contribute trying to demonize cars. the collection of posts is the thread.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,989 ✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    but they should be demonised, they've ruined cities



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    They most certainly have not. Thanks for stepping up and putting yourself forward as an example of the type of posters to which I am referring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭ DaCor




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    It is not the fault of motorists that the Urban planners have implemented the wrong traffic calming and management solutions from an existing toolbox of solutions to the detriment of motorists, pedestrians, cyclists and other road users. Blaming the Motorist is scapegoating and nothing more.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    You're correct, the planners implemented what was directed to be implemented and that direction has now changed.

    Note, there's a difference between motor vehicles and motorists. One has ruined cities and towns around the world, the other is getting from A to B in the mode the planners have designed for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    A motor vehicle is neither benign nor malignant of itself so you are demonizing the people at the steering wheels of these devices. Thanks for the clarification.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭ DaCor




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Traffic free Capel Street to go through another round of public consultation before being implemented this summer.

    Previous consultation showed 90% support among respondents for it




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    1+1=3? These cars aren't empty and require a driver so yes, you are demonizing the drivers and occupants of those vehicles. You are perfectly happy for that inference to be drawn.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭ gjim


    It is simply impossible to design cities which can accommodate everyone using a car to get around.

    Where road space is limited, it needs to be rationed.

    In which case, it makes complete sense to prioritise the most efficient, in terms of bodies moved per unit road space, modes in any such rationing. Private cars are the least efficient, so they come last in terms of allocating of road space.

    Why should car users be given an unfairly large share of the available space?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    It is not rationing. It is prohibition by effectively blocking access. On the days when an inhabitant needs to take their car to deliver/collect bulky items such as shopping or a baby and their acoutrements they will not be able to access the city by car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Indeed. This fact escapes many. In terms of capacity, the only, long term way to increase it is by making more sustainable modes a viable option to encourage modal shift away from the private car (bus lanes, protected bike lanes, priority crossing points etc). This has been shown to work everywhere its been done.

    Actually, come to think of it, I'm not actually aware of a single instance where this hasn't worked to increase capacity or lead to modal shift. I just spent a while looking and looking but can't find a single study or report that says otherwise. If anyone comes across anything like that please post it, I'd be interested to see.




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 32,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    So streets in urban centres should continuing to allow the driver above all others just in case they need to collect something bulky?

    This is a tired old argument which has been shown to be nothing more than nonsense but hey, please do continue with it as you're getting quite good at it now!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    Interesting graphic which completely misses the point that none of these other forms of traffic get me to the locations I want to get to in to the old town or somewhere on the far side of the city in an acceptable time frame. The bike is the next fastest solution but it is 3 degrees and raining.

    This is a city with excellent public transport options available. The situation in Dublin would be much grimmer.

    I picked up two items yesterday in two different suburbs at different times and the alternative to using the car to collect them would have been 800m walk to train station or bus stop then the train or bus, then light rail then a few hundred metres walk on the far side. 15 minute trip by private transport becomes a 2 hour or more round trip or else pay for postage which is less convenient and costly.

    The travel plans of normal people and the great Visions on this sub-forum are often incompatible with each other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    The roads aren't just for drivers and I'm not aware of any rules which give them priority. Buses and light rail have priority on the streets in most circumstances and there are fines if cyclists aren't given their 1.5 metres of space when passing by. By law you slow down to a walking pace when passing a bus in case there alighting passengers step out unexpectedly in to the roadway.

    Stop equating road behaviour in a Civilsed regimented country to what happens in Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭ gozunda


    A look back ...

    "In 1900, there were over 11,000 hansom cabs on the streets of London alone. There were also several thousand horse-drawn buses, each needing 12 horses per day, making a staggering total of over 50,000 horses transporting people around the city each day.

    This problem came to a head when in 1894, The Times newspaper predicted… “In 50 years, every street in London will be buried under nine feet of manure.”

    However, necessity is the mother of invention, and the invention in this case was that of motor transport. Henry Ford came up with a process of building motor cars at affordable prices. Electric trams and motor buses appeared on the streets, replacing the horse-drawn buses..."

    And the rest as we say is history ...




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    No. living in an ancicent City with geographical challenges which do not exist in Dublin I don't accept the need to restrict vehicular access to Dublin City to the extent posters here on this subforum suggest is necessary.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 32,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    Given the evidence showing the high pollution levels caused directly by traffic in the city centre and the evidence showing that this is having a negative impact on the residents, how do you propose to square that circle in the short to medium future?

    Also, how do you propose to improve and encourage healthy and fast sustainable travel while at the same time allowing for the current number of journeys by car?

    The reality is that the car is the least efficient method of movement within a city centre. Whilst policy to date has been to facilitate movement by car over other forms, this is now changing in all progressive cities. Irish cities are gradually moving that way despite the continual attempts to frustrate the process by those who wrongly think the status quo should remain.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    my car has no exhaust. stickers on windscreens determine which cars are allowed in to the inner city here. Without a green sticker your car needs to be parked in one of the car parks and make your way to your destination via another means of transport or your feet.

    Questions are being asked on this thread which have been answered long ago in the city in which I live.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    Hi @haphaphap, can I put a question to you.

    If the population of Dublin was 1.34 million in 2019 and the roads are at or close to capacity with private cars, how do you ensure the inhabitants can move about freely by 2036 without being stuck in congestion, when its projected to increase by 31% to 1.76 million according to the CSO and how do you envisage that would be done without restricting car access in particular.

    I get that you want to keep your car, lash ahead, just wondering have you thought about how to address the capacity issue as I've outlined it above. I'm aware you are not living in Dublin but I'm using it as a local example



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    Dublin City Council could implement many of the practices implemented elsewhere which I have pointed out over many pages without restricting access for cars while at the same time incentivising use of personal mobility solutions.

    Public Transport police would help to increase usage of public transport.

    Intelligent traffic management which I see every day of the week isn't implemented in Ireland.

    There are 3 points for dangerous overtaking of cyclists but that doesn't appear to be enforced. points for dangerous driving which once again does not appear to be applied/enforced.

    Not being able to turn around a corner on a traffic light as I described above creates huge congestion as does the lack of a transition from red to green through amber on traffic lights.

    You spoke previously about carrot and stick but really you yearn to dole out the beatings with a stick through prohibition of entry to the city with cars.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118430508/#Comment_118430508



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 32,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Seth Brundle


    Whilst I didn't ask about your car, I do note that you didn't attempt to actually answer any of my questions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    leading questions deserve to be ignored.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    translate that in to English to see how the Germans deal with high polluting cars in urban areas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭ gjim


    How about answering the question?

    For third time; do you accept that, given the quantity of road space available, it's not physically possible for everyone who needs to get around the city to use a car to do so?

    A simple yes or no, please.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭ haphaphap


    How about reading the last post. That is how reasonable countries deal with a problem in a measured way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,195 ✭✭✭✭ Thargor


    So the 90% consultation wasn't good enough for them?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,954 ✭✭✭ DaCor


    That was based on the trial as it was done. They are now going back out with final options which will be permanent. This was always going to be the case



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