Autumn Internationals Team Announcement/Talk

troyzer

kingofthekong wrote: »

what are your stats on audiences and how they are diminishing and the trends on what spectators like to see would love to see it, 
The whole audience in twickenham jumped to their feet and let out the biggest roar of the game when that tackle was made it was a really effective hit 
Yes imagine if Farrell had raised his arm 90 degrees he wouldve hurt himself even more... lol,
Use the two eyes in your head to look at the photos you'll see he uses his arm.. 
Its a fantastic hit

You can still have big hits and they're an important part of the game.

But when did making a big hit mean you have to launch yourself shoulder first with no wrap? I have used my two eyes. He doesn't wrap.

Buer

kingofthekong wrote: »

what are your stats on audiences and how they are diminishing and the trends on what spectators like to see would love to see it, 
The whole audience in twickenham jumped to their feet and let out the biggest roar of the game when that tackle was made it was a really effective hit 
Yes imagine if Farrell had raised his arm 90 degrees he wouldve hurt himself even more... lol,
Use the two eyes in your head to look at the photos you'll see he uses his arm.. 
Its a fantastic hit

I have never said he didn't use an arm. Perhaps use the eyes in your head to read my posts? One arm came up but did not wrap....I have my suspicions as to whether that was momentum or a genuine attempt to wrap. Regardless, it was sufficient for the referee as an attempt (note: not wrapped, attempted to do so) and, on immature reflection, that was his decision. I feel it was a reckless challenge though by dropping his arm on his dominant side, though and I believe that advocating that tacklers should deliberately drop an arm to their side to make a hit to the upper body is madness; it would almost certainly lead to multiple concussions.

Players make tackles to the upper area against charging players in every game and don't get hurt. Is Farrell made of glass? If you think someone will get injured by trying to wrap rather than going in with a shoulder, then we would have injuries in every match because players wrap like that all the time. Some of them get bounced but they wrap and walk away fine. Farrell is the one who stayed down hurt after the hit at the weekend.

The home crowd in Twickenahm cheered when Farrell made a hit and the final whistle went to signal England had won the game?

Get outta here!

irishbucsfan

troyzer wrote: »

You can still have big hits and they're an important part of the game.

But when did making a big hit mean you have to launch yourself shoulder first with no wrap? I have used my two eyes. He doesn't wrap.

He doesn’t have to wrap. He has to make an attempt to wrap.

Zzippy

Is there a case to be made for only allowing dominant tackles, where the tackler leads with the shoulder and tries to make a big hit, below the nipple line, and allowing soak tackles higher with the arms wrapped to prevent an offload? It seems to me that defences are putting a premium on these dominant tackles, in order to stop momentum and prevent offloading, but this carries a high risk of hits to the head as the tackle necessitates going high to prevent the ball carrier getting his arms free to offload? A blanket ban on tackling above the nipple line would surely lead to more offloads and probably more continuity rugby (good to watch), but obviously not great for defences, so perhaps allowing soak/wrap tackles only above this line might be a compromise?

kingofthekong

Buer wrote: »

kingofthekong wrote: »

what are your stats on audiences and how they are diminishing and the trends on what spectators like to see would love to see it, 
The whole audience in twickenham jumped to their feet and let out the biggest roar of the game when that tackle was made it was a really effective hit 
Yes imagine if Farrell had raised his arm 90 degrees he wouldve hurt himself even more... lol,
Use the two eyes in your head to look at the photos you'll see he uses his arm.. 
Its a fantastic hit

I have never said he didn't use an arm. Perhaps use the eyes in your head to read my posts? One arm came up but did not wrap....I have my suspicions as to whether that was momentum or a genuine attempt to wrap. Regardless, it was sufficient for the referee as an attempt (note: not wrapped, attempted to do so) and, on immature reflection, that was his decision. I feel it was a reckless challenge though by dropping his arm on his dominant side, though and I believe that advocating that tacklers should deliberately drop an arm to their side to make a hit to the upper body is madness; it would almost certainly lead to multiple concussions.

Players make tackles to the upper area against charging players in every game and don't get hurt. Is Farrell made of glass? If you think someone will get injured by trying to wrap rather than going in with a shoulder, then we would have injuries in every match because players wrap like that all the time. Some of them get bounced but they wrap and walk away fine. Farrell is the one who stayed down hurt after the hit at the weekend.

The home crowd in Twickenahm cheered when Farrell made a hit and the final whistle went to signal England had won the game?

Get outta here!

kingofthekong

Beautiful hit

Buer

I've no idea why you keep posting the angle that actually doesn't show his arm trying to wrap....

kingofthekong

If his arm is up there then hes taking his head off ... his arm is in the perfect spot to not make a high tackle and not make contact with the head...
Its nearly impossible to wrap an arm around someones upper body and not get knocked on your ass , you take the players momentum with your shoulder not on your exposed chest... anyone whos played 5 minutes of rugby would know that ,
Best hit of the weekend by a mile, hope these arent taken out of the game

kingofthekong

"Players make tackles to the upper area against charging players in every game and don't get hurt." very rarely are players taking a contact that big..

Podge_irl

kingofthekong wrote: »

Its nearly impossible to wrap an arm around someones upper body and not get knocked on your ass

If you can't tackle upright while wrapping without getting knocked on your ass then tackle lower. If you are tackling too high to attempt to wrap without hitting someone in the head then tackle lower. Attempting to wrap is not optional.

lawred2

kingofthekong wrote: »

If his arm is up there then hes taking his head off ... his arm is in the perfect spot to not make a high tackle and not make contact with the head...
Its nearly impossible to wrap an arm around someones upper body and not get knocked on your ass , you take the players momentum with your shoulder not on your exposed chest... anyone whos played 5 minutes of rugby would know that ,
Best hit of the weekend by a mile, hope these arent taken out of the game

That's not a justification for a shoulder charge

kingofthekong

Podge_irl wrote: »

kingofthekong wrote: »

Its nearly impossible to wrap an arm around someones upper body and not get knocked on your ass

If you can't tackle upright while wrapping without getting knocked on your ass then tackle lower. If you are tackling too high to attempt to wrap without hitting someone in the head then tackle lower. Attempting to wrap is not optional.

there was an attempt to wrap but collision too big
"Players make tackles to the upper area against charging players in every game and don't get hurt." very rarely are players taking a contact that big..

kingofthekong

lawred2 wrote: »

kingofthekong wrote: »

If his arm is up there then hes taking his head off ... his arm is in the perfect spot to not make a high tackle and not make contact with the head...
Its nearly impossible to wrap an arm around someones upper body and not get knocked on your ass , you take the players momentum with your shoulder not on your exposed chest... anyone whos played 5 minutes of rugby would know that ,
Best hit of the weekend by a mile, hope these arent taken out of the game

That's not a justification for a shoulder charge

It wasnt a shoulder charge..
Every single head on tackle in world rugby is mad with the shoulder as the first point of contact ...the second point of contact is then the arm...
The reason why the wrap was not completed is because the collision was so big that esterhuizen bounced onto the flor and could no longer have an arm around him..

kingofthekong

lawred2

This immediately came to mind seeing that image

kingofthekong

^^^^^ If the collision was smaller esterhuizen would still be on his feet and the arm would be around his back..... the size and speed of this collision means Esterhuizen had rebounded and hit the deck before the arm rounded the back....you dont tackle people with your arms first in a head on tackle .....
Great tackle Farrell should be praised

kingofthekong

kingofthekong

sorry my posts keep doubling up

penybont exile

For what it's worth I thought it should have been a penalty. Especially considering some of the incidents deemed reckless that are penalised these days.

This type of tackle was never an issue when I played. It's a rugby league import and the game is much the worse for it.

kingofthekong

penybont exile wrote: »

For what it's worth I thought it should have been a penalty.  Especially considering some of the incidents deemed reckless that are penalised these days.

This type of tackle was never an issue when I played.  It's a rugby league import and the game is much the worse for it.

Slow mo down all the head on tackles that take place after the scrum half passes to a forward off the base of the ruck....
They majority are illegal shoulder charges by this standard its just the speed at which the collison is happening is slower so noone bats an eyelid.

This is a pretty big weekend of rugby when you stop and think about it. A lot of tantalising contests all through Saturday.

14:00 Italy v Georgia
Italy are under serious pressure to perform here. Their clubs are doing better but the National team just isn't kicking on. Georgia would love to make a case for greater inclusion in major competitions at the cost of Italy. Expect this to be a lower quality game but as intense as anything we'll see all weekend.

14:30 Scotland v Fiij
7th v 10th in the world. Two teams that love to hold onto the ball and move it to the wider channels with frequency, should be plenty of scores and entertainment.

15:00 England V New Zealand
Probably the game of the weekend. England to my mind are in much greater disarray than people think but the All Blacks are not quite as clinical as they have been. Expect huge physicality from England but I don't think they've got anything other than hurt in their locker to unlock the All Blacks. 10 point victory for the visiting side, I think the AB's are playing within themselves as opposed to playing poorly personally, if they ship a few losses this season it will make their inevitable world cup win slightly meaningful!

17:20 Wales v Australia
I think Wales would have a better chance of beating the All Blacks than beating Australia. It's important that Wales takes ownership of this fixture, they can't keep folding at home to SH teams if they don't want that living in their headspace heading to Japan. Will give us a good idea of where Wales are at the moment, expect this to be brutal to be honest.

18:30 Ireland v Argentina
Plenty has been said, written and thought about this game so no point going further here. Ireland will be want to answer any remaining questions about their 23 before they face the All Blacks and Argentina will look to continue their run of form that has seem them take wins over Australia and South Africa.

20:05 France v South Africa
Two massive teams both in need of a win. SA will be disappointed to have dominated England but come away with a loss and whilst they are making light of the tackle that ended the match, they no doubt feel somewhat hard done by. Brunel must already be under a little pressure, dominated by the All Blacks during the summer and an disjointed six nations, this is a must win for him to build some confidence in a World Cup year.

Squidgy Black

The England game should be an interesting one.

If it's a tough game, and if England come close to the ABs, I can see our game being a big target for the ABs as they won't want to have come to the North and shown that the NH is starting to catch up with them.

On the other hand, if they destroy England, they'll be playing with some serious confidence.

Buer

New Zealand XV: Damian McKenzie; Ben Smith, Jack Goodhue, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane; Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith; Karl Tu'inukuafe, Codie Taylor, Owen Franks, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Liam Squire, Ardie Savea, Kieran Read (captain).

Replacements: Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Matt Todd, TJ Perenara, Richie Mo'unga, Ryan Crotty.

kuang1

Buer wrote: »

New Zealand XV: Damian McKenzie; Ben Smith, Jack Goodhue, Sonny Bill Williams, Rieko Ioane; Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith; Karl Tu'inukuafe, Codie Taylor, Owen Franks, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Liam Squire, Ardie Savea, Kieran Read (captain).

Replacements: Dane Coles, Ofa Tuungafasi, Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Matt Todd, TJ Perenara, Richie Mo'unga, Ryan Crotty.

Christ nearly every name there is what I'd consider to be a household name.
Unreal talent.

Buer

kuang1 wrote: »

Christ nearly every name there is what I'd consider to be a household name.
Unreal talent.

Whilst the team is outstanding, I don't fear their bench. I think Ireland should be able to match it and probably better it, even allowing for a natural bias.

Clegg

Depends if Ringrose is fit for the New Zealand game. His defensive game will be key to beating the All Blacks.

The Caveman

The Springbok team to face France in Paris (in order of name, surname, province, Test caps, Test points):

15. Willie le Roux (Wasps, England, 50, 60 – 12t)
14. Sbu Nkosi (Cell C Sharks , 4, 15 – 3t)
13. Jesse Kriel (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 37, 50 – 10t)
12. Damian de Allende (DHL Western Province, 34, 20 – 4t)
11. Aphiwe Dyantyi (Xerox Golden Lions, 10, 30 – 6t)
10. Handré Pollard (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 36, 299 – 3t, 55c, 55p, 3d)
9. Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks, England, 20, 15 – 3t)
8. Warren Whiteley (Xerox Golden Lions, 22, 15 – 3t)
7. Duane Vermeulen (Unattached, 43, 15 – 3t)
6. Siya Kolisi (captain, DHL Western Province, 38, 25 – 5t)
5. Franco Mostert (Gloucester, England, 26, 5 – 1t)
4. Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Western Province, 43, 20 – 4t)
3. Frans Malherbe (DHL Western Province, 26, 0)
2. Malcolm Marx (Xerox Golden Lions, 21, 20 – 4t)
1. Steven Kitshoff (DHL Western Province, 34, 5 – 1t)

Replacements

16. Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Western Province, 23, 10 – 2t)
17. Thomas du Toit (Cell C Sharks, 6, 0)
18. Vincent Koch (Saracens, England, 10, 0)
19. RG Snyman (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 9, 0)
20. Francois Louw (Bath Rugby, England, 62, 45 – 9t)
21. Embrose Papier (Vodacom Blue Bulls, 5, 0)
22. Elton Jantjies (Xerox Golden Lions, 30, 223 – 2t, 42c, 43p)
23. Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse, France, 4, 10 – 2t)

jr86

Wasn't Tuilagi left out as a 'precaution' last week, with an eye on this week?

Has the time come to just give up on him at international level at this stage? Absolutely riddled with injuries

jr86

jr86 wrote: »

Wasn't Tuilagi left out as a 'precaution' last week, with an eye on this week?

Has the time come to just give up on him at international level at this stage? Absolutely riddled with injuries

He would struggle to get into a lot of international squads because of his continued unavailability, but England are struggling for centres at the moment and it's probably worth their while trying to get him onto the pitch.

He's also been in an England team that has beaten the All Blacks.

Clegg

Tuilagi isn't in the side this week either.

15. Elliot Daly
14. Chris Ashton
13. Henry Slade
12. Ben Te’o
11. Jonny May
10. Owen Farrell (co-captain)
9. Ben Youngs

8. Mark Wilson
7. Sam Underhill
6. Brad Shields
5. George Kruis
4. Maro Itoje
3. Kyle Sinckler
2. Dylan Hartley (co-captain)
1. Ben Moon

Replacements:

16. Jamie George
17. Alec Hepburn
18. Harry Williams
19. Charlie Ewels
20. Courtney Lawes
21. Danny Care
22. George Ford
23. Jack Nowell