Can someone explain the appeal of EV's?

Stallingrad

With Tesla out of the blocks and everyone else scrambling to get a piece of the action it appears that EV's will be the next wave of modern transportation. While they solve certain problems today are they really a long term solution though?

Green credentials:
My ICE uses limited resources and pollutes in situ and during extraction.
Your EV uses limited resources and pollutes at a powerplant and during extraction.

Recycling:
I believe that there is only 20 years supply of lithium assuming current growth rates, and it currently costs 5 times more to recycle Lithium from old batteries than it is to mine it. So unlike ICE cars that are almost 100% recyclable, lithium car batteries are currently not economically recyclable. So where do they go?

So unless I am missing something, the idea that you are being 'green' are questionable at best.

So if you are not driving something very 'green' why then are people buying them? Is it the quieter drive, the lower day to day running costs? I assume the cost saving outweighs the inconvenience of limited range, daily charging, poor infrastructure and so on?

I'm not trying to troll here, I see the appeal of lower day to day costs and some of the driving characteristics, but short of that I remain unconvinced, particularly with regard to whole 'green' bit.

I am happy to be enlightened.

Have you ever testdriven an EV? If not take one for a spin. For me it is following:

Superior throttle response
Quietness/Refinement
Convenience of almost never needing to look for a fuelling station
Low cost of driving

davo2001

samih wrote: »

Have you ever testdriven an EV? If not take one for a spin. For me it is following:

Superior throttle response
Quietness/Refinement
Convenience of almost never needing to look for a fuelling station
Low cost of driving

This one is baffling me a little, I've never really looked for a filling station, they are literally everywhere, surely the actual issue of looking for a e-point to charge your car and if all the charging points are being used would significantly outway this?

KCross

Stallingrad wrote: »

Green credentials:
My ICE uses limited resources and pollutes in situ and during extraction.

The pollution there is significant particularly in the fact that its at street level where you are breathing and also considering that the systems in the cars that are supposed to limit those emissions have now been proven to be bogus in the real world.

Stallingrad wrote: »

Your EV uses limited resources and pollutes at a powerplant and during extraction.

The pollution is not all at the power plant.
30% of our electricity is renewable so straight off the bat you have that green element there. 0% of your diesel is renewable.

Also, the pollution at the power plant is much more tightly regulated and its not at street level and as the grid gets cleaned up (which is happening all the time) all the existing EV's on the road are in effect getting cleaner at the same time.

An old polluting diesel car will get worse with age, not better.

Stallingrad wrote: »

Recycling:
I believe that there is only 20 years supply of lithium assuming current growth rates, and it currently costs 5 times more to recycle Lithium from old batteries than it is to mine it. So unlike ICE cars that are almost 100% recyclable, lithium car batteries are currently not economically recyclable. So where do they go?

I think the figures you have are old wives tales. Where did you get the 20yr figure. I'd suggest that's BS whereever you got it from.

A battery coming out of an EV after 10-15yrs of use goes into a second life as a grid storage battery.

After 10-15yrs in a car they dont just stop working. They just get to a point where they no longer can provide enough range for a car but they still provide significant capacity to be used in other applications so they dont get recycled, they get re-applied.

Full recycling beyond that hasnt been solved at scale yet because we are not at that point in the cycle yet but it will happen.

Stallingrad wrote: »

So unless I am missing something, the idea that you are being 'green' are questionable at best.

You've probably been reading too much of the oil industry media feed!

Stallingrad wrote: »

Is it the quieter drive, the lower day to day running costs? I assume the cost saving outweighs the inconvenience of limited range, daily charging, poor infrastructure and so on?

I'm not trying to troll here, I see the appeal of lower day to day costs and some of the driving characteristics, but short of that I remain unconvinced, particularly with regard to whole 'green' bit.

I am happy to be enlightened.

All of the above.
Alot of people driving EV's dont have infrastructure or poor range issues because they dont need 1000km's in the tank. They do less than 100km per day and an EV can do that no bother.

Have you checked your own mileage recently and what you need. You might surprise yourself.

New EV's also now go upto 500km range (Hyundai Kona) and are less than €40k so range and infrastructure is becoming less and less of an issue and the running costs are about fifth of a petrol/diesel car assuming you have home charging capability (i.e. a driveway).

Gumbo

Stallingrad wrote: »

With Tesla out of the blocks and everyone else scrambling to get a piece of the action it appears that EV's will be the next wave of modern transportation. While they solve certain problems today are they really a long term solution though?

Green credentials:
My ICE uses limited resources and pollutes in situ and during extraction.
Your EV uses limited resources and pollutes at a powerplant and during extraction.

Recycling:
I believe that there is only 20 years supply of lithium assuming current growth rates, and it currently costs 5 times more to recycle Lithium from old batteries than it is to mine it. So unlike ICE cars that are almost 100% recyclable, lithium car batteries are currently not economically recyclable. So where do they go?

So unless I am missing something, the idea that you are being 'green' are questionable at best.

So if you are not driving something very 'green' why then are people buying them? Is it the quieter drive, the lower day to day running costs? I assume the cost saving outweighs the inconvenience of limited range, daily charging, poor infrastructure and so on?

I'm not trying to troll here, I see the appeal of lower day to day costs and some of the driving characteristics, but short of that I remain unconvinced, particularly with regard to whole 'green' bit.

I am happy to be enlightened.

The bolded part sounds like a copy and paste from a rag magazine. The others are not scrambling to match Tesla, Nissan brought EV to the masses.

Doctors room ghost

Theyd be a great yeok for doing drive by shootings.youd get within inches of your target and they wouldn’t even know you were there.
I’ve been nearly run over a few times with them.you can’t hear them sneaking up

cruizer101

Stallingrad wrote: »

So if you are not driving something very 'green' why then are people buying them? Is it the quieter drive, the lower day to day running costs? I assume the cost saving outweighs the inconvenience of limited range, daily charging, poor infrastructure and so on?

I'm not trying to troll here, I see the appeal of lower day to day costs and some of the driving characteristics, but short of that I remain unconvinced, particularly with regard to whole 'green' bit.

Very few people would buy them purely on the basis of being 'green', at the end of the day buying any new car isn't green.
However if someone is buying a new car anyway it can be an added bonus.
The biggest driver I would say is the financial savings (most decisions ultimately come down to following the money). However even that isn't that clear. Is it better to keep and old car on the road rather than buy a new car?

KCross

Here is a good example of how EV batteries have a second life
https://www.johancruijffarena.nl/default-showon-page/amsterdam-arena-more-energy-efficient-with-battery-storage-.htm

There are many more examples like this where they take 100s of used EV batteries for grid storage.

Patser

Incredible acceleration
1 foot ease of driving style
Cheap running cost (low tax, minimal servicing, cheap 'fuel')
Unusual looks for a cool car
Feeling of space inside car with high seating position but low centre of gravity
Not having to worry too much about future resale issues as EVs are still to Govt 's future solution - whereas diesel we all know will get hammered somehow soon.
Ability to precondition car, so its toasty warm on cold mornings

jjpep

As much as I like the idea of an EV, from a green POV, cycling/walking and public transport are much more greener.

r3nu4l

KCross wrote: »

A battery coming out of an EV after 10-15yrs of use goes into a second life as a grid storage battery.

After 10-15yrs in a car they dont just stop working. They just get to a point where they no longer can provide enough range for a car but they still provide significant capacity to be used in other applications so they dont get recycled, they get re-applied.

Where does this put anyone wanting to buy a 10-15 year old EV? Will they also need to buy a new battery and how much are replacement batteries?

I know those numbers will be low enough but currently ICE drivers can buy a 10-15 year old car easily enough and not have to work about shelling out thousands on a new battery.

All of the above.
Alot of people driving EV's dont have infrastructure or poor range issues because they dont need 1000km's in the tank. They do less than 100km per day and an EV can do that no bother.

Have you checked your own mileage recently and what you need. You might surprise yourself.

New EV's also now go upto 500km range (Hyundai Kona) and are less than €40k so range and infrastructure is becoming less and less of an issue and the running costs are about fifth of a petrol/diesel car assuming you have home charging capability (i.e. a driveway).

I'm really looking forward to this becoming reality. Unfortunately the Kona wouldn't suit my needs as I need an estate car with a very decent boot space and significant payload. The distance I travel rules out EV for me for quite some time which is frustrating because I would love to own one, not because of the BS green credentials but because of the quietness of the drive itself and the throttle responses.

Stallingrad

kceire wrote: »

The bolded part sounds like a copy and paste from a rag magazine. The others are not scrambling to match Tesla, Nissan brought EV to the masses.

I disagree. Nissan may have first but they were always niche until Tesla came along. It is really only since Tesla proved they can be desirable, and that huge sums can be charged for them, that the Germans and everyone else have binned their other plans (Hydrogen BMW anyone?) and focused on EV.

r3nu4l

Regarding the cheap running costs, that is going to change. Right now EV owners are in a golden age of cheap running costs but once the switchover to EV reaches a certain threshold, you will see significant increase in all sorts of taxes... possibly a tax similar to mirror tax, for upkeep of the charginginfrastructure.

Even today there is talk of making owners pay for public charging but a cautionary note to say that the charges should not (yet be high enough to) discourage people from switching...

davo2001

davo2001 wrote: »

This one is baffling me a little, I've never really looked for a filling station, they are literally everywhere, surely the actual issue of looking for a e-point to charge your car and if all the charging points are being used would significantly outway this?

It's analoguouos of your mobile phone. Imagine if you had to take your phone to be charged once a week to a shop instead of just unplugging it from your bedside table each morning.

OwaynOTT

I've always wondered is it 'greener' for me to keep the car I have than buying a bew EV car?

Patser

r3nu4l wrote: »

Regarding the cheap running costs, that is going to change. Right now EV owners are in a golden age of cheap running costs but once the switchover to EV reaches a certain threshold, you will see significant increase in all sorts of taxes... possibly a tax similar to mirror tax, for upkeep of the charginginfrastructure.

Even today there is talk of making owners pay for public charging but a cautionary note to say that the charges should not (yet be high enough to) discourage people from switching...

2 things -

Yes costs will go up when EVs hit a certain threshold, but with only about 4,000 EVs on Irish roads currently we're a long way from that

Secondly, EVs will never be hit to anywhere near the extent as ICE vehicles will be. They will always remain the cheaper option (at least until some futuristic option like hydrogen proves itself cleaner)

So the Golden era will continue for quite a while yet, so might as well enjoy it.

orangerhyme

One important thing to remember in terms of green credentials is that EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.
An electric motor is actually 85/90% efficient but the difference from 59-62% is attributed to charging and for ac/dc conversion.
Im not sure how much is lost due to grid distance travelled but the general consensus is that EVs use about 1/3 of the energy of ICEs.

ICEs lose a lot of energy to heat, noise etc

If a lot of that energy was coming from a renewable source it makes it very green, considering that gasoline is dug up from the ground somewhere and then transported across the world using numerous other sources of energy to get to the petrol station.
It would be interesting to see a study that took into account the amount of energy used to get oil out of the ground, refined and then transported to your local petrol station compared to energy from a solar panel on your house or in your locality.

I think the most exciting application of EVs in the future will be distributed grid storage to balance the grid. The grid peaks in the evening when so many cars, buses, vans etc are parked up for the evening and they could be used to power the grid.

wersal gummage

What level of government grant is given to these cars? What types or subsidy are provided? Is it just cost price and motor tax reduction (presumably the emissions doesn't take into account that some level of emission occurred to get the car charged?),

Can our electricity grid cope with every car in the country being electric? I know it might be 20/30 years away, but just curious if it's sustainable to have half a million or a million cars charging every night??

Can homes cope with having 2 or 3 cars charging or will rewiring be necessary?

Will there be "mass" on street charging at some point in the future? Large parts of Dublin have on street (not designated) parking, and apartment blocks etc. So presumably it'll be necessary to have a huge upgrade in on street charging points?

Again, like the person who originally asked, no prejudice here. I don't drive a lot and an electric car would suit my needs maybe 95% of the time, just curious on how we'll cope when the numbers start scaling up.

copeyhagen

I drive a diesel at the moment, do a lot of motorway miles for work.

will be coming into a substantial amount of money in the probably the next 12 months, im dying to get an EV. for me though, it has to be a tesla, either try get a model s secondhand if budget allows, or go for a new model 3 in about 2 years (if I can get one).

I work for esb and we have free charge points at work... motoring for me will cost next to nothing, but as I said, its a tesla or nothing for me personally.

ELM327

wersal gummage wrote: »

What level of government grant is given to these cars? What types or subsidy are provided? Is it just cost price and motor tax reduction (presumably the emissions doesn't take into account that some level of emission occurred to get the car charged?),

Up to €5k VRT reduction
€5k grant from SEAI
Tax is €120 as emissions are 0
Reduced Tolls
Home charger grant of €600
0 BIK tax on cars below €50k list price
I'm sure there's more.

wersal gummage wrote: »

Can our electricity grid cope with every car in the country being electric? I know it might be 20/30 years away, but just curious if it's sustainable to have half a million or a million cars charging every night??

Probably not, but a lot more feasible than you may think. In fact having a large number of EV charging at night is helpful with load management. Currently we have to switch off some renewables because the old coal powered plants cannot be easily switched off and on. Most EV charging is at night at home, and we have an excess of electricity at night. Sometimes large users get paid to consume electricity (ie at negative cost) due to excess.

wersal gummage wrote: »

Can homes cope with having 2 or 3 cars charging or will rewiring be necessary?

Most homes could have 2 cars charging. One at 32a and one at 10/16a.
To charge 2 cars at 32a or to charge 3 cars would require rewiring and fuse upgrade from 63a to 80a (or 3 phase - which is common on the continent but not here)

wersal gummage wrote: »

Will there be "mass" on street charging at some point in the future? Large parts of Dublin have on street (not designated) parking, and apartment blocks etc. So presumably it'll be necessary to have a huge upgrade in on street charging points?

Again, like the person who originally asked, no prejudice here. I don't drive a lot and an electric car would suit my needs maybe 95% of the time, just curious on how we'll cope when the numbers start scaling up.

Possibly. Who knows, the tech is still in its infancy.
I don't see masses of on street slow chargers, but instead a mix of home charging and "charging stations" (fast chargers) laid out like petrol stations.
This has already started in more advanced countries like Norway and Holland.

wersal gummage

copeyhagen wrote: »

I drive a diesel at the moment, do a lot of motorway miles for work.

will be coming into a substantial amount of money in the probably the next 12 months, im dying to get an EV. for me though, it has to be a tesla, either try get a model s secondhand if budget allows, or go for a new model 3 in about 2 years (if I can get one).

I work for esb and we have free charge points at work... motoring for me will cost next to nothing, but as I said, its a tesla or nothing for me personally.

Have you been in one? I think they look great and would have been all for one, but was in one recently and it was a nasty place to be, all cheapo plastic... Have only ever been in that one example so maybe I was in an earlier model or a bottom of the line model.

copeyhagen

wersal gummage wrote: »

Have you been in one? I think they look great and would have been all for one, but was in one recently and it was a nasty place to be, all cheapo plastic... Have only ever been in that one example so maybe I was in an earlier model or a bottom of the line model.

that's an S I presume?

haven't driven one yet but have seen weeks worth of footage on youtube.. don't look cheap on the vids, but I would imagine theyre mostly p100 top spec models.

GreeBo

KCross wrote: »

Here is a good example of how EV batteries have a second life
https://www.johancruijffarena.nl/default-showon-page/amsterdam-arena-more-energy-efficient-with-battery-storage-.htm

There are many more examples like this where they take 100s of used EV batteries for grid storage.

Its a 10 year agreement, so whats the life of one of these 2nd hand batteries?

KCross

jjpep wrote: »

As much as I like the idea of an EV, from a green POV, cycling/walking and public transport are much more greener.

Of course, but that doesnt help much unless you are in a properly serviced city, which Ireland doesnt have. The car isnt about to go away.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Where does this put anyone wanting to buy a 10-15 year old EV? Will they also need to buy a new battery and how much are replacement batteries?

Its hard to know. Batteries capacity is growing in EV's as the cost to manufacture is scaling up. Its possible that the likes of a 64kWh Kona will rot before the battery becomes unusable in it. Its more of an issue on the early EV's which had much much smaller capacities (22kWh vs 64kWh today).

Nissan have also started a battery reconditioning service. So, rather than buy a new battery you get a reconditioned one for reasonable money.

Its ultimately down to what range you need from that 10-15yr old car. Its not the case that the battery will necessarily stop working at that point.

r3nu4l wrote: »

I know those numbers will be low enough but currently ICE drivers can buy a 10-15 year old car easily enough and not have to work about shelling out thousands on a new battery.

People have not needed to buy new batteries for EV's yet eventhough you often hear myths in the news that the batteries need regular replacing and cost thousands.

r3nu4l wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to this becoming reality. Unfortunately the Kona wouldn't suit my needs as I need an estate car with a very decent boot space and significant payload. The distance I travel rules out EV for me for quite some time which is frustrating because I would love to own one, not because of the BS green credentials but because of the quietness of the drive itself and the throttle responses.

Well, its not BS. They are much greener than diesel cars.

However, the lack of choice is a big stumbling block right now. You want an estate and it simply doesnt exist in the EV world yet. Realistically we are still at the early adoptor stage and you will have to wait for your chosen style car to appear on the market and filter down to your price level.

r3nu4l wrote: »

Regarding the cheap running costs, that is going to change. Right now EV owners are in a golden age of cheap running costs but once the switchover to EV reaches a certain threshold, you will see significant increase in all sorts of taxes... possibly a tax similar to mirror tax, for upkeep of the charginginfrastructure.

Even today there is talk of making owners pay for public charging but a cautionary note to say that the charges should not (yet be high enough to) discourage people from switching...

My crystal ball says that we will eventually see road pricing, increased motor tax and a general increase in other taxes to make up the shortfall from lost excise revenue from diesel. We are a LONG way away from those things being brought in though.

However, when they bring in those measures it will mean you are paying on the double in a diesel car.... i.e. excise on diesel AND road pricing and increased motor tax... so EV will conitnue, imo, to be cheaper to run than diesel by the same or more margin than it is today.... it has to, otherwise the switchover would never happen.

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I've always wondered is it 'greener' for me to keep the car I have than buying a bew EV car?

Thats difficult to determine. If you are doing small mileage I'd say its greener to run it into the ground. If you are doing med-high mileage it is greener to switch to EV to reduce the diesel emissions, imo.

It really depends on what your definition of "green" is. Is it CO2, is it NOx and PM, is it manufacturing CO2 etc.

Stallingrad

samih wrote: »

It's analoguouos of your mobile phone. Imagine if you had to take your phone to be charged once a week to a shop instead of just unplugging it from your bedside table each morning.

Some people might actually like a phone that would last 2 weeks without charging, and would bring it somewhere if it took the same amount of time as it does to fill a tank!

And what happens when you forget to charge the car, as you sometimes do with your phone? What happens to the school run and your work commute the next day? And what about the charging bays always being full as I witness every time I am in Carrickimines?

Until wireless charging is the norm, it seems like a PITA to me.

pwurple

Appeal for us?
1) Cheaper. We charge at work. No fuel cost , low tax etc. The car has easily paid for itself in savings already. 
2) Lower maintenance. No oil changes, no spark plugs, no dirty sh!t basically and it's cheaper to service
3) Greener. As above, we charge at work. 100% renewable, for almost 4 years now.
4) Urban environment, we have kids. Reduction of particle air pollution. 
5) Theoretically, Longer lifespan. Combustion engines wear out, electric motors, not so much. I plan to teach my kids to drive in ours (youngest is 4 yrs old). The battery seems to be keeping it's capacity, almost 4 years in. Maybe it will wear out, but when it does, I hope that maybe newer technology will have the ability to be retro-fitted. The motor of the car will be the same. 

There's other bits too, like the toys they come with that are nice to have. I enjoy being able to get into a pre-defrosted car, with heated steering wheel and seats on a frosty morning. I like being able to track the car, remotely set configs on it, at that price-point. I like the convenience of never going to a petrol station and getting fuel on my hands. 
So that's us.

ELM327

Stallingrad wrote: »

Some people might actually like a phone that would last 2 weeks without charging, and would bring it somewhere if it took the same amount of time as it does to fill a tank!

And what happens when you forget to charge the car, as you sometimes do with your phone? What happens to the school run and your work commute the next day? And what about the charging bays always being full as I witness every time I am in Carrickimines?

Until wireless charging is the norm, it seems like a PITA to me.

But we moved away from phones that lasted 2 weeks, to shorter life phones that had better functionality.

pwurple

Stallingrad wrote: »

samih wrote: »

It's analoguouos of your mobile phone. Imagine if you had to take your phone to be charged once a week to a shop instead of just unplugging it from your bedside table each morning.

And what happens when you forget to charge the car, as you sometimes do with your phone?  What happens to the school run and your work commute the next day?  And what about the charging bays always being full as I witness every time I am in Carrickimines?

Until wireless charging is the norm, it seems like a PITA to me.

Hah. I love these.
Do you forget to refuel your petrol car at the moment, and then wring your hands in terror as you are stranded on the side of the road with a car full of kids and a walk with a petrol can? If so, yes, this would be a real problem for you.

GreeBo

ELM327 wrote: »

But we moved away from phones that lasted 2 weeks, to shorter life phones that had better functionality.

I'd rather be stuck somewhere without a phone than stuck somewhere without a car.

ELM327

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd rather be stuck somewhere without a phone than stuck somewhere without a car.

Then I suggest if you are going to forget to refuel your car with either fossil fuel or electricity that you purchase either an AA membership or a bus ticket.

ELM327

pwurple wrote: »

Hah. I love these.
Do you forget to refuel your petrol car at the moment, and then wring your hands in terror as you are stranded on the side of the road with a car full of kids and a walk with a petrol can? If so, yes, this would be a real problem for you.

You'd swear petrol cars never needed to be refilled.
I blame the BS about "self charging" from Toyota.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Patser wrote: »

Incredible acceleration
1 foot ease of driving style
Cheap running cost (low tax, minimal servicing, cheap 'fuel')
Unusual looks for a cool car
Feeling of space inside car with high seating position but low centre of gravity
Not having to worry too much about future resale issues as EVs are still to Govt 's future solution - whereas diesel we all know will get hammered somehow soon.
Ability to precondition car, so its toasty warm on cold mornings

That last point alone has me sold. Was ****ing frozen this morning. And the windscreen wipers broke. Grumble.

Patser

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

That last point alone has me sold. Was ****ing frozen this morning. And the windscreen wipers broke. Grumble.

Heated seats in mine too

KCross

Stallingrad wrote: »

Some people might actually like a phone that would last 2 weeks without charging, and would bring it somewhere if it took the same amount of time as it does to fill a tank!

And what happens when you forget to charge the car, as you sometimes do with your phone? What happens to the school run and your work commute the next day? And what about the charging bays always being full as I witness every time I am in Carrickimines?

Until wireless charging is the norm, it seems like a PITA to me.

I presume you remember the Nokia 3310. That used last a week+. How long does the battery in the phone in your pocket, right now, last?

In reality its not an issue. It is second nature now that when you get out of the car in the evening you plug it in... literally no more than 10secs to do so.

The Leaf also has an option on it that will send you an email if you forget to plug it in. It has a GPS built in so once it knows its home and it senses its not plugged in it will email you.

If the worst does happen and you dont have it charged you just have to suffer on, get it charged at home or visit a rapid charger etc.... the same as you would today if you forget to put petrol in your car..... basically, its not an issue.

Stallingrad

pwurple wrote: »

Hah. I love these.
Do you forget to refuel your petrol car at the moment, and then wring your hands in terror as you are stranded on the side of the road with a car full of kids and a walk with a petrol can? If so, yes, this would be a real problem for you.

That's a bit bogus. Yes I have forgotten to fuel my car, but if I wake up with a range of 10km I can start my commute, get fuel and be on my way within 5 mins. What are you going to do?

ELM327

Stallingrad wrote: »

That's a bit bogus. Yes I have forgotten to fuel my car, but if I wake up with a range of 10km I can start my commute, get fuel and be on my way within 5 mins. What are you going to do?

The 5 becomes 20. That's literally the only difference.
And even that is short lived, newer cars are charging faster and faster.
Look at the 800v Porsche for instance. It charges to 80% in 12 minutes.
It's not "for the masses" yet but that tech will filter down soon.

Gravelly

KCross wrote: »

I presume you remember the Nokia 3310. That used last a week+. How long does the battery in the phone in your pocket, right now, last?

In reality its not an issue. It is second nature now that when you get out of the car in the evening you plug it in... literally no more than 10secs to do so.

The Leaf also has an option on it that will send you an email if you forget to plug it in. It has a GPS built in so once it knows its home and it senses its not plugged in it will email you.

If the worst does happen and you dont have it charged you just have to suffer on, get it charged at home or visit a rapid charger etc.... the same as you would today if you forget to put petrol in your car..... basically, its not an issue.

Jaysus, I've enough plagues emailing me in the evenings without my car doing it too

KCross

GreeBo wrote: »

Its a 10 year agreement, so whats the life of one of these 2nd hand batteries?

No one knows yet. But EV batteries have been lasting longer than people thought they would.

If you got 10-15 years out of it in an EV and another 10-15 in a grid application thats alot more than we get out of our average diesel engines... I believe the average age of cars in Ireland is around the 12yr mark?

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

But we moved away from phones that lasted 2 weeks, to shorter life phones that had better functionality.

See, it's quite a good analogy really. Although even the old Blockias could be charged at home.

I bought a diesel van just this past weekend and it was breaking my heart to fill guts of 100 yoyo in it. I didn't much enjoy the drive at the start but got used to the noise and gears soon enough on my return home almost after 500 km. It was bit of a revelation to jump into the L40 afterwards. Pity there are no 300+ km full size electric vans yet available (and second hand for 10k or so).

GreeBo

ELM327 wrote: »

Then I suggest if you are going to forget to refuel your car with either fossil fuel or electricity that you purchase either an AA membership or a bus ticket.

Well I could walk or get a lift to a garage and get 5L of fuel...what do you do?
Extension cable?

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Well I could walk or get a lift to a garage and get 5L of fuel...what do you do?
Extension cable?

Extension cable will do if you have got time as long as there is a socket somewhere within the range of said extension lead. There are more of those available in many areas in say West of Ireland than petrol stations within a walking distance.

ELM327

GreeBo wrote: »

Well I could walk or get a lift to a garage and get 5L of fuel...what do you do?
Extension cable?

If I have 10km of range I drive to the nearest fast charger.
If I have truly 0 (unlikely) then it's granny cable through a window.

If you have truly 0 in your fossil car then you have to call someone to bring you some petrol.

ewj1978

Things to do while bored..
Go onto X forum. Type why I think X will never work and Y is better than X. Sit back and laugh at X fans trying to explain X's to someone who doesn't actually care.

These threads are source of amusement for both OP and occasionally for the people who answer too.

Stallingrad

ewj1978 wrote: »

Things to do while bored..
Go onto X forum. Type why I think X will never work and Y is better than X. Sit back and laugh at X fans trying to explain X's to someone who doesn't actually care.

samih wrote: »

These threads are source of amusement for both OP and occasionally for the people who answer too.

Not sure why you would think that, some of the responses have been both enlightening and educational. I driven hybids (Prius, 330e and one EV briefly, Tesla) but the range issue rules EV's out for me for now. But these are still early days so as the technology and range improves they may become more compelling. But like most it won't be the desire to go 'green' that will be the motivational factor.

KCross

Stallingrad wrote: »

I driven hybids (Prius, 330e and one EV briefly, Tesla) but the range issue rules EV's out for me for now. But these are still early days so as the technology and range improves they may become more compelling. But like most it won't be the desire to go 'green' that will be the motivational factor.

What are your range needs?

We get people on the forum who make statements like... "until it can fuel as fast as my diesel and can go 800km on that fill I'm not switching to EV"

If thats your yardstick you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

What most non-EV folk dont get is that your car is fully charged everyday when you wake up. Think of all the people who drive on half tanks of fuel or drive it down until the light comes on and then they refuel... they dont need 800km+ range at all but they think they do because they dont realise that they have a fully charged EV every morning..... its hard to get that point across. You have to own one to understand it.

Obviously if you are regularly bombing up and down from Cork to Dublin and back on the same day or a travelling salesman then the current EV's arent suitable but thats a tiny minority.

I'd recommend anyone who doesnt have an EV take a daily log of their mileage and look at it after a few months and then you will truly know if range is an issue for you or not.

All the above assumes you have home charging. All bets are off if you dont have that.

pwurple

They don't deplete while idle, like your phone. You don't wake up one morning and suddenly the charge that was there before you switched it off is gone. 
I don't even entertain the really bizaaro hypotheticals tbh. If I forget to park in my spot and forget I'm using my car, and forget to look at the read-out. I mean, seriously? If my head fell off I'd have a problem too, but it's unlikely to happen, ya know?

For those who are teetering on the suitability, what we did, rather than the overhead of logging mileage, was just enable location history on our phones. I had it on anyway, for logging site visits at the end of the week. Helps me track where I am. A lot of people have location history on anyway, for using maps etc. Just go here, to view your timeline:  Google timeline
Most people have very similar habits every week. Home -> work   [repeat] Weekend they might go somewhere else.

Stallingrad

Stallingrad wrote: »

Not sure why you would think that, some of the responses have been both enlightening and educational. I driven hybids (Prius, 330e and one EV briefly, Tesla) but the range issue rules EV's out for me for now. But these are still early days so as the technology and range improves they may become more compelling. But like most it won't be the desire to go 'green' that will be the motivational factor.

You could do what many of the posters of the ev list do, and keep a sneaky deisel car on the side, for, you know, when you actually have to go somewhere.

irishgrover

what appeals to me....
1. Cost of ownership: Total cost of ownership for me is significantly lower. I was buying 3 or 4 year old ~2lt diesels. Instead I bought new ev and total cost of ownership is less
2. It's the only way I could personally justify the cost of a new car - and I always wanted to own one new car in my life
3. The tech toys in an EV are great. Adaptive cruise control, a level of autonomous self steering/speed regulation, heated / ventilated seats etc etc.
4. Charging at home is easy
5. I charge at night-time, when maximum renewable power is achieved.
6. I drive a lot and driving an EV is far superior to driving a car with an engine.
7. A element of parental guidance – for someone who does my mileage an EV makes sense. My kids like the idea of an EV and it sets a good example

_Brian

Also I think we all agree that EV will on some form be the future of transport, particularly when range is sorted for more practical vehicles.

In the meantime there’s always a section of a society that want to be pioneers in using new technology, same for any new tech, some people will spend extra and put up with some inconvenience to be using the new thing. It’s importsnt that some do as they are highlighting the teething problems that will need sorting before this tech becomes mainstream which I’ve no doubt it will.

mordeith

Deleted User wrote: »

You could do what many of the posters of the ev list do, and keep a sneaky deisel car on the side, for, you know, when you actually have to go somewhere.

Absolutely. Except diesel is crap. I have a 1.8 turbo petrol for those journeys.