Plumbers on 150-200 k per annum

lob020

I had a plumber call this week to clear blocked kitchen sink(which he couldn't do)After an hour he gave up and referred us to drainage unblock company.The charge for his efforts and company was 115 euro.This means that if he worked 30/40 hour week,his earnings per annum would be 150-200k par annum.Local guy so no major travel
I never realised how lucrative plumbing work is

MOD NOTE: All posters, please refrain from making sweeping statements. This isn't after hours and a free for all will not be allowed. See post 14 for context.

kieran.

lob020 wrote: »

I had a plumber call this week to clear blocked kitchen sink(which he couldn't do)After an hour he gave up and referred us to drainage unblock company.The charge for his efforts and company was 115 euro.This means that if he worked 30/40 hour week,his earnings per annum would be 150-200k par annum.Local guy so no major travel
I never realised how lucrative plumbing work is

I'd imagine he has a min callout charge followed by an hourly rate of 30-50 per hr

mfceiling

lob020 wrote: »

I had a plumber call this week to clear blocked kitchen sink(which he couldn't do)After an hour he gave up and referred us to drainage unblock company.The charge for his efforts and company was 115 euro.This means that if he worked 30/40 hour week,his earnings per annum would be 150-200k par annum.Local guy so no major travel
I never realised how lucrative plumbing work is

I wonder has he any overheads? Did he have a van? Tools? Insurance?
I wonder how much tax he pays?
Probably doesn't work over Christmas...so doesn't get paid for that 2 weeks.
Covered in shìt and pìss on some jobs.
Called out at night or weekends.
Maybe you should start plumbing yourself OP?

Mandown

Why would you pay 115 euro if he solved nothing

KERSPLAT!

It's handy that they have absolutely no overheads and have 8 x €100/hour jobs five days a week

irishguy

lob020 wrote: »

I had a plumber call this week to clear blocked kitchen sink(which he couldn't do)After an hour he gave up and referred us to drainage unblock company.The charge for his efforts and company was 115 euro.This means that if he worked 30/40 hour week,his earnings per annum would be 150-200k par annum.Local guy so no major travel
I never realised how lucrative plumbing work is

Im not sure you understand the basic financials of how a business works. Your calculations are way too high.

salmocab

He arrived on a stolen bicycle had no tools or equipment and only took cash presumably?

Wildly Boaring

lob020 wrote: »

I had a plumber call this week to clear blocked kitchen sink(which he couldn't do)After an hour he gave up and referred us to drainage unblock company.The charge for his efforts and company was 115 euro.This means that if he worked 30/40 hour week,his earnings per annum would be 150-200k par annum.Local guy so no major travel
I never realised how lucrative plumbing work is

Assume you're just a bit pissed because you messed up and called the wrong profession.

Next time you've a blockage in a kitchen or bathroom don't be wasting s plumbers time.

He has a call out rate and charged you for the hour. Do you think he then drove 0 mins and repeated for a 40 hour week because that's the only way your maths work

salmocab

Mandown wrote: »

Why would you pay 115 euro if he solved nothing

Because presumably he couldn’t fix the problem, he still came took tools out of his van and worked for an hour. If he arrived said I can’t do that then you don’t pay but he tried and couldn’t.

lob020

salmocab wrote: »

Because presumably he couldn’t fix the problem, he still came took tools out of his van and worked for an hour. If he arrived said I can’t do that then you don’t pay but he tried and couldn’t.

I do understand,he has costs and the figures I quoted are gross
He did not come on a bike and he was paid in cash
He was made totally aware of the problem before he called ,so why didn't he just say that he couldn't do it or didn't have the equipment
I was not at home when he called,but I definitely would have challenged him on the amount,but as my wife accepted his explanations re costs ,she paid.I subsequently rang him only to be told he was not a charity
I would have thought a charge of 50 euro for call out would have been more appropriate

salmocab

lob020 wrote: »

I do understand,he has costs and the figures I quoted are gross
He did not come on a bike and he was paid in cash
He was made totally aware of the problem before he called ,so why didn't he just say that he couldn't do it or didn't have the equipment
I was not at home when he called,but I definitely would have challenged him on the amount,but as my wife accepted his explanations re costs ,she paid.I subsequently rang him only to be told he was not a charity
I would have thought a charge of 50 euro for call out would have been more appropriate

50 euro for a callout he’d not be in business very long. I’m not a plumber but if you told him a drain was blocked he probably thought it was at the U bend or something but it sounds like it’s backing up from a distance out which needs specialist equipment that plumbers wouldn’t have as a rule.
I’ve often been called to peoples houses for problems that turn out to be more or different to what the homeowner described.

TCM

mfceiling wrote:

I wonder has he any overheads? Did he have a van? Tools? Insurance? I wonder how much tax he pays? Probably doesn't work over Christmas...so doesn't get paid for that 2 weeks. Covered in shìt and pìss on some jobs. Called out at night or weekends. Maybe you should start plumbing yourself OP?

Pay tax you say. Most self employed trades pay very little tax. They quote the job then will only accept cash when finished, or say they'll charge VAT if paid by cheque. All should be forced to accept payment by debit/credit. Ripping off the tax system and PAYE public.
Also most are usually hours late or don't turn up at all on the day agreed after the householder has taken time off work. Night & Weekends - they've no obligation to do call outs at night or weekends and when they to they charge crazy money because they simply can. Finally many (plumbers) arn't qualified in the 1st instance - just chancers.

lob020

salmocab wrote: »

50 euro for a callout he’d not be in business very long. I’m not a plumber but if you told him a drain was blocked he probably thought it was at the U bend or something but it sounds like it’s backing up from a distance out which needs specialist equipment that plumbers wouldn’t have as a rule.
I’ve often been called to peoples houses for problems that turn out to be more or different to what the homeowner described.

It was only local pipe that was blocked,confirmed by lads from drains company,cleared in 5 mins with right equipment
Big picture this plumber lives locally,he works from home,very little travel costs overheads etc, probably similar to a lot of other operations,so his gross per annum figure is excess 200k

Wearb

TCM wrote: »

Pay tax you say. Most self employed trades pay very little tax. They quote the job then will only accept cash when finished, or say they'll charge VAT if paid by cheque. All should be forced to accept payment by debit/credit. Ripping off the tax system and PAYE public.
Also most are usually hours late or don't turn up at all on the day agreed after the householder has taken time off work. Night & Weekends - they've no obligation to do call outs at night or weekends and when they to they charge crazy money because they simply can. Finally many (plumbers) arn't qualified in the 1st instance - just chancers.

MOD NOTE: All posters, please refrain from making sweeping statements such as above. This isn't after hours and a free for all will not be allowed.

aaakev

TCM wrote: »

Pay tax you say. Most self employed trades pay very little tax. They quote the job then will only accept cash when finished, or say they'll charge VAT if paid by cheque. All should be forced to accept payment by debit/credit. Ripping off the tax system and PAYE public.
Also most are usually hours late or don't turn up at all on the day agreed after the householder has taken time off work. Night & Weekends - they've no obligation to do call outs at night or weekends and when they to they charge crazy money because they simply can. Finally many (plumbers) arn't qualified in the 1st instance - just chancers.

You obviously dont know many self employed tradesmen so....

Some, yes. Most, certainly not

mfceiling

TCM wrote: »

Pay tax you say. Most self employed trades pay very little tax. They quote the job then will only accept cash when finished, or say they'll charge VAT if paid by cheque. All should be forced to accept payment by debit/credit. Ripping off the tax system and PAYE public.
Also most are usually hours late or don't turn up at all on the day agreed after the householder has taken time off work. Night & Weekends - they've no obligation to do call outs at night or weekends and when they to they charge crazy money because they simply can. Finally many (plumbers) arn't qualified in the 1st instance - just chancers.

Wow!! Generalise much? Most plumbers aren't qualified and are just chancers?
Turn up hours late? Word of mouth soon spreads.
Charge crazy money simply because they can? So if your toilet is overflowing with filth then the person coming to your house to solve this problem should accept the figure you decide?
You pay people for something you can't do and they can...that's how business works.

scwazrh

Any good quality self employed plumber in the Leinster area should be capable of earning at least a €100 k per yr at the moment. It’s not going to last forever but that is simply the way the market is at the moment.

mfceiling

lob020 wrote: »

It was only local pipe that was blocked,confirmed by lads from drains company,cleared in 5 mins with right equipment
Big picture this plumber lives locally,he works from home,very little travel costs overheads etc, probably similar to a lot of other operations,so his gross per annum figure is excess 200k

Must live in a mansion and drive a 182 van so.

It's end if year accounts time for the self employed...why not ask him to show you his there. Guarantee he makes nowhere close to 200k.

Tom44

lob020 wrote: »

It was only local pipe that was blocked,confirmed by lads from drains company,cleared in 5 mins with right equipment
Big picture this plumber lives locally,he works from home,very little travel costs overheads etc, probably similar to a lot of other operations,so his gross per annum figure is excess 200k

Take up plumbing then, rather than moaning.
Pay 13.5‰ on labor
15% on overheads
25% on taxable income profit

Welcome to the (honest) self-employed sector.

And you wonder why so many have taken a 9 to 5 job. !!!!!!



God
I hate this bull****.

****.. was my edited ending



OK
What comes out of the arrrrrse of a bull.

_Brian

I’ve worked callouts before.
A guy working callouts would never usually get a 39hour week on the invoices.
It typically has much more travel and trips to/from base.

tmabr

2OOK a year is nuts, any plumber earning that fair play to them.

A tough 4 year apprenticeship
Extra training
van
insurance
no paid holidays
chasing builders
sick days
chasing non paying customers
tools
rgii fees
traffic
customers not home for appointments

And a leak that can wipe out a months profit overnight, its happened to us all

Corb_lund

200k is not reasonable to earn for a plumber.

Then again I doubt he is earning that much, though I've never met a tradesman who is honest with his earnings..

That's a fairly expensive call out for something he couldn't fix..

lob020

Corb_lund wrote: »

200k is not reasonable to earn for a plumber.

Then again I doubt he is earning that much, though I've never met a tradesman who is honest with his earnings..

That's a fairly expensive call out for something he couldn't fix..[/quote

As already stated I have no problem with anyone making a decent living but it's the greed, profiteering,lack of foresight ,empathy that really annoys me
The wheel hopefully will turn and these guys will get there just desert
Obviously I would never recommend this person to any one ,the opposite in fact,

I guess it's time to move on .Live and learn and good luck to all the honest decent tradesmen out there,I have come across many , believe it or not

salmocab

lob020 wrote: »

Corb_lund wrote: »

200k is not reasonable to earn for a plumber.

Then again I doubt he is earning that much, though I've never met a tradesman who is honest with his earnings..

That's a fairly expensive call out for something he couldn't fix..[/quote

As already stated I have no problem with anyone making a decent living but it's the greed, profiteering,lack of foresight ,empathy that really annoys me
The wheel hopefully will turn and these guys will get there just desert
Obviously I would never recommend this person to any one ,the opposite in fact,

I guess it's time to move on .Live and learn and good luck to all the honest decent tradesmen out there,I have come across many , believe it or not

You weren’t there when he came out and said they guys who he told you to get had the right equipment, you got the wrong person out for the job. It’s not profiteering it’s running a business. He had to travel to and from your home even if he lives local to you it’s unlikely that the other 7 jobs a day he does were on your street so he may have had miles to travel.

lob020

salmocab wrote: »

lob020 wrote: »

You weren’t there when he came out and said they guys who he told you to get had the right equipment, you got the wrong person out for the job. It’s not profiteering it’s running a business. He had to travel to and from your home even if he lives local to you it’s unlikely that the other 7 jobs a day he does were on your street so he may have had miles to travel.

Obviously you are in the business, defending the indefensible
He had another job next door BTW
But never again

seamus

Let's work this out reasonably.

€115 for an hour's work.

Less VAT, that's €101.30 for the callout that belongs to the plumber.

Let's assume for the sake of the argument that it takes fifteen minutes to get to each job (some will be an hour, some will be five minutes apart). That means he can make it to about 6 jobs in a given day. Let's assume that he has job lined up constantly. Which is definitely not the case, but bear with me. 6 jobs per day, 5 days a week. €3,039 a week. Over a whole year that's €158k.

Really? Well, no.

Because it assumes he's wall-to-wall working. Self-employed people don't get paid for holidays. So he takes four weeks off for himself, and there are nine public holidays, which he also doesn't get paid for.

Down to €140k.

On any given day, even during the busiest periods, he is optimistically about 90% occupied. Cancellations, run-overs, etc. Being wall-to-wall every day is not a reality.

Down to €126k

While I'm sure he does paperwork outside of hours, he will also always be doing it inside of hours. Let's say he does it every Friday afternoon. So he's not earning then either.

Down to €110k.

Now, factor in the other costs; insurance - trade insurance, vehicle insurance; running costs - phone bills, tools, wastage, fuel, electricity, stationery; training courses.

If this guy is pulling in more than €90k for his own pocket in a given year, he'd be doing well. Of which about €30k goes to the tax man.

Of course he's not even pulling in €90k, because that €100 figure includes the call out charge. Most of his work won't be an hour's work plus callout, it'll be one callout charge plus 3/4 hours work, at what, €60/hour?

People who baulk at the rates going for tradesmen always seem to assume that they turn up, pocket the money and that's that. PAYE workers have the convenience of all of the admin & business stuff done for them. Somebody else buys your equipment and does your paperwork. They don't seem to get that self-employed people have to work AND run the business.

I've never met anyone who has been both PAYE and self-employed, who thinks that self-employment is the easy route. Those who are, appreciate the freedom and self-determination it gives you. But they also acknowledge how easy PAYE workers have it in comparison.

sbsquarepants

lob020 wrote: »

It was only local pipe that was blocked,confirmed by lads from drains company,cleared in 5 mins with right equipment
Big picture this plumber lives locally,he works from home,very little travel costs overheads etc, probably similar to a lot of other operations,so his gross per annum figure is excess 200k

How can a plumber work from home? It's hard to fit a shower over WIFI!:D

I don't think you've too much of a case to be honest - the guy came to your house and worked for an hour - it might not have fixed the problem and that's why you feel aggrieved but sometimes shít just happens (or doesn't as the case may be)

What probably happened was the problem could have been 1 of numerous things, he turned up and checked a few things out and it transpired the problem is not in the house at all and you need more specialised equipment to fix it.

That's just bad luck for you. But that doesn't mean he should do that work for free, does it?

If you get an unsatisfactory result in your own job, do you forego your wages?

salmocab

lob020 wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

Obviously you are in the business, defending the indefensible
He had another job next door BTW
But never again

Not in the business, I am a tradesman but I’ve never worked for myself, I have however worked for small businesses in the past and I know that the costs of running a business are high.
Your free to not use him again and indeed bad mouth him around the place but it doesn’t mean your right.
You may be right he may be a chancer and may have ripped you off but based on what you’ve posted it doesn’t sound like it.

lob020

I guess I'm the one at fault here,mea culpa
I should have known that plumbers do not unblock kitchen sinks and should have been prepared to pay over 100 euro for confirmation of that fact,even though it was explained to the guy before he came out ,what the problem was
Apologies to everyone,I really should be recommending him to all my friends and neighbours in the interest of fairness
Although it seems that my assertion that Plumbers can earn between 150 and 200k gross is correct

Mandown

Still 115 euro for a non job is ridiculous, especially if hes only down the road 75 is more than enough 25 to come down and 50 for his hour i think thats fair enough

seamus

Mandown wrote: »

Still 115 euro for a non job is ridiculous, especially if hes only down the road 75 is more than enough 25 to come down and 50 for his hour i think thats fair enough

While it may seem like a bit of flexibility/reason is lacking here, you also have to appreciate the fact that from the OP's perspective this is a single job - maybe the only bit of plumbing this year - that he has the time to ruminate over and post about online.

From the plumber's perspective, this is one of a number of jobs to be done this week alone, all involving various forms of difficulty and effort.

If he was to make up the figures as he went along it would be impossible to keep track of actual costs, impossible to forecast cashflow, etc. Not only that, if the guy next door hears that you got your job at €40 discount, he'll want it too.

For larger pieces of work, quoting and discounting is all part and parcel of the work. For small one-off jobs, you can't just invent figures off the top of your head or you'll go broke in no time. Have a set price, charge it and move on.

Mandown

seamus wrote: »

While it may seem like a bit of flexibility/reason is lacking here, you also have to appreciate the fact that from the OP's perspective this is a single job - maybe the only bit of plumbing this year - that he has the time to ruminate over and post about online.

From the plumber's perspective, this is one of a number of jobs to be done this week alone, all involving various forms of difficulty and effort.

If he was to make up the figures as he went along it would be impossible to keep track of actual costs, impossible to forecast cashflow, etc. Not only that, if the guy next door hears that you got your job at €40 discount, he'll want it too.

For larger pieces of work, quoting and discounting is all part and parcel of the work. For small one-off jobs, you can't just invent figures off the top of your head or you'll go broke in no time. Have a set price, charge it and move on.

fair enough I get you, I don't know much about the industry just 115 for an hour seemed like madness to me.

Dtp1979

lob020 wrote: »

I guess I'm the one at fault here,mea culpa
I should have known that plumbers do not unblock kitchen sinks and should have been prepared to pay over 100 euro for confirmation of that fact,even though it was explained to the guy before he came out ,what the problem was
Apologies to everyone,I really should be recommending him to all my friends and neighbours in the interest of fairness
Although it seems that my assertion that Plumbers can earn between 150 and 200k gross is correct

You explained to the guy before he came out that you had a blockage. That could’ve ended several different ways. How long is a piece of string?