Your experiences of Anti Social Behaviour in Estates

A recent thread on Darndale got me thinking about this.

I was wondering if m/any people on boards have direct experience of this kind of 'lifestyle' (living in an estate that fits the typical 'council estate' stereotype).


For clarity: I live in a CoCo (County Council) estate, as does my brother. Two different estates, about a 3 minute walk, door-to-door. Whilst my street is plagued with anti social issues, in his street; you'd hear a pin drop. So I'm not tarring all with the same brush (although I am openly annoyed that I ended up in the worst of the bunch).

I've been onto the CoCo for a while to attempt to address the issues in the area with limited success as the CoCo simply have little interest in doing anything in general. Although after a lengthy battle or two they'll eventually cave and listen.


I am aware that Darndale, Finglas, Tallaght, etc. are areas in Dublin with similar issues (and these are likely the places that most here will know as most boardsies seem to be Dublin-based).

I'm wondering if people who have lived in these areas have seen the areas improve or worsen over the years? If CoCo's ever did anything of note in the areas that made the place better or worse?

Things I've noticed over the years were the CoCo finding one of the quieter green areas, that didn't have much/any issues, and sticking a random playground on it. Which immediately resulted in every scummer in a 10km radius hanging out at it. I think the playground was damaged/burned/destroyed and removed within 3 weeks of it being installed.

On the other hand, there's a green area that suffers a fair bit of anti social behaviour, as it has walls, steps, paths etc. that the scummers used to sit on and hang out at. The CoCo came in and removed anything that could possibly resemble a seat, and that particular green area has been much much quieter ever since.

Wondering if anyone else has ever seen this or has ever worked for a CoCo Housing unit or the likes?


My job takes me across almost every county in the Republic, and i've noticed that a lot of estates seem to be getting worse with regards to anti social behaviour. I'm seeing nice, clean estates, that have random graffiti, littering etc. And was chatting to a chap that lives in an estate in.. I want to say Longford.. but i cant recall where exatly.. recently that said the area is grand and quiet, but a few families moved in recently and ever since halloween started, kids have been throwing fireworks at his house, in his letterbox, trying to set fire to his flowers/hedges etc. whereas he never had such issues in the past.
(I believe he was in a private estate, that never got finished, but the CoCo bought the half-finished units, and that housing brought in a few rough characters).



What are your experiences of anti social behaviour? Is it as widespread as it seems, or am I just having bad luck in the people/places I'm encountering?

n!ghtmancometh

I lived in a corner house in a council estate in Tallaght until I was 12. There would be multiple stolen cars joyridden around the estate most nights, concentrating on doing handbrake turns at our corner, the screeching noise terrifying my little sister, and demolishing our garden wall twice in the process. The cars would eventually be burnt out, but on one occasion one was rammed into the (closed) chipper at the local shops and set on fire, as punishment for the relatively new owner who would call the guards on the scumbags hanging around outside his business, drinking, selling drugs and generally harassing his customers. Cars would also sometimes be rammed into the primary school gates or wall and burnt either. I remember the school itself being broken into and badly vandalised on a few occasions, and having to have class in the PE hall while the classrooms were cleaned.

Myself and my younger sister were raised by my Mam alone, and the scum in the estate knew she was alone so would knick knack, shout through the letter box late at night, egg, and throw rocks through the front windows. We had to stuff the letter box with towels and duct tape at Halloween as they would attempt to put bangers and fireworks through it also. Vividly remember one of the glass panels of the hall door being kicked in at about 7:30pm on a winters evening about a week after my baby sister was born and brought home, and my mam looking crestfallen, and the fat culchie guard who eventually arrived looking very disinterested. House was broken into once only when I was 10, probably as they saw we had feck all worth robbing.

Was also a lad bet up on our front doorstep by lads in balaclavas, I was too young to understand what was going on, just remember him screaming, the door being kicked by the lads kicking him, and him begging to be let in. Thinking back now, it was one of the junkie neighbours getting a hiding for owing money I'd say. Used to find dirty syringes in the back garden the odd time when it was grass cutting time and you'd have to look through the garden to make sure no stones or rubbish would damage the mower. The council gave us a little yellow bin and those litter pickers though to get rid of them, which was nice of them. We moved about 15 mins away to Clondalkin just as I started secondary school, and it was strange and a huge relief to be somewhere so peaceful in comparison!

The old estate is a good bit quieter now, and has ramps and Garda CCTV cameras. Plus, most of the scum from my youth are either dead (know for a fact at least 4 of the main ones are, 2 died in a stolen car crash when they were drunk and the other 2 od'd) or in jail.

CinemaGuy45

:(

pleas advice

release the hounds

Qrt

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

I lived in a corner house in a council estate in Tallaght until I was 12. There would be multiple stolen cars joyridden around the estate most nights, concentrating on doing handbrake turns at our corner, the screeching noise terrifying my little sister, and demolishing our garden wall twice in the process. The cars would eventually be burnt out, but on one occasion one was rammed into the (closed) chipper at the local shops and set on fire, as punishment for the relatively new owner who would call the guards on the scumbags hanging around outside his business, drinking, selling drugs and generally harassing his customers. Cars would also sometimes be rammed into the primary school gates or wall and burnt either. I remember the school itself being broken into and badly vandalised on a few occasions, and having to have class in the PE hall while the classrooms were cleaned.

Myself and my younger sister were raised by my Mam alone, and the scum in the estate knew she was alone so would knick knack, shout through the letter box late at night, egg, and throw rocks through the front windows. We had to stuff the letter box with towels and duct tape at Halloween as they would attempt to put bangers and fireworks through it also. Vividly remember one of the glass panels of the hall door being kicked in at about 7:30pm on a winters evening about a week after my baby sister was born and brought home, and my mam looking crestfallen, and the fat culchie guard who eventually arrived looking very disinterested. House was broken into once only when I was 10, probably as they saw we had feck all worth robbing.

Was also a lad bet up on our front doorstep by lads in balaclavas, I was too young to understand what was going on, just remember him screaming, the door being kicked by the lads kicking him, and him begging to be let in. Thinking back now, it was one of the junkie neighbours getting a hiding for owing money I'd say. Used to find dirty syringes in the back garden the odd time when it was grass cutting time and you'd have to look through the garden to make sure no stones or rubbish would damage the mower. The council gave us a little yellow bin and those litter pickers though to get rid of them, which was nice of them. We moved about 15 mins away to Clondalkin just as I started secondary school, and it was strange and a huge relief to be somewhere so peaceful in comparison!

The old estate is a good bit quieter now, and has ramps and Garda CCTV cameras. Plus, most of the scum from my youth are either dead (know for a fact at least 4 of the main ones are, 2 died in a stolen car crash when they were drunk and the other 2 od'd) or in jail.

Tallaght-head here, and it seems to sum up 90s West Tallaght. I'm still growing up here really and it's nowhere near that bad anymore, apart from one or two roads in Brookview or Rossfield

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Nope never really frequented social housing estates much


Edited to say that sounded much ruder than I intended
I grew up in the suburbs of town, none of my friends lived in estates and I never really encountered much drama where I grew up

Samuel T. Cogley

Jillian Tangy Female wrote: »

Nope never really frequented social housing estates much

:rolleyes:

Kevin Finnerty

n!ghtmancometh wrote: »

I lived in a corner house in a council estate in Tallaght until I was 12. There would be multiple stolen cars joyridden around the estate most nights, concentrating on doing handbrake turns at our corner, the screeching noise terrifying my little sister, and demolishing our garden wall twice in the process. The cars would eventually be burnt out, but on one occasion one was rammed into the (closed) chipper at the local shops and set on fire, as punishment for the relatively new owner who would call the guards on the scumbags hanging around outside his business, drinking, selling drugs and generally harassing his customers. Cars would also sometimes be rammed into the primary school gates or wall and burnt either. I remember the school itself being broken into and badly vandalised on a few occasions, and having to have class in the PE hall while the classrooms were cleaned.

Myself and my younger sister were raised by my Mam alone, and the scum in the estate knew she was alone so would knick knack, shout through the letter box late at night, egg, and throw rocks through the front windows. We had to stuff the letter box with towels and duct tape at Halloween as they would attempt to put bangers and fireworks through it also. Vividly remember one of the glass panels of the hall door being kicked in at about 7:30pm on a winters evening about a week after my baby sister was born and brought home, and my mam looking crestfallen, and the fat culchie guard who eventually arrived looking very disinterested. House was broken into once only when I was 10, probably as they saw we had feck all worth robbing.

Was also a lad bet up on our front doorstep by lads in balaclavas, I was too young to understand what was going on, just remember him screaming, the door being kicked by the lads kicking him, and him begging to be let in. Thinking back now, it was one of the junkie neighbours getting a hiding for owing money I'd say. Used to find dirty syringes in the back garden the odd time when it was grass cutting time and you'd have to look through the garden to make sure no stones or rubbish would damage the mower. The council gave us a little yellow bin and those litter pickers though to get rid of them, which was nice of them. We moved about 15 mins away to Clondalkin just as I started secondary school, and it was strange and a huge relief to be somewhere so peaceful in comparison!

The old estate is a good bit quieter now, and has ramps and Garda CCTV cameras. Plus, most of the scum from my youth are either dead (know for a fact at least 4 of the main ones are, 2 died in a stolen car crash when they were drunk and the other 2 od'd) or in jail.

That's tough, great post. To come through that and express it so precisely, I wouldn't be able to.

Hope you didn't do their funerals.

Richard Hillman

Most nights. One of the session moths goes around with one of those wheelie speakers, so you hear the local scum floating around most nights.

Generally it's stolen mopeds, fires on the football pitches, smashing bottles, beating up Spanish students. My area went downhill massively when we stopped exporting our scum to Ballyogan. Unfortunately there were only so many council houses up there

Samuel T. Cogley

I live in Kilbarrack, most of the estate I'm on is now privately owned with a few social tenants around the place. I'd have no issues wandering around the place right now and it's as quiet as a mouse. The policy of a thin spread is definately a good one.

Fairly mild but I was in my aunts once & a neighbor of hers who’s by all accounts an awful bollox took it upon himself to falsely accuse myself and my two cousins of calling him a prick. We were kids and she was pissed. Stressed out one of my cousins so much he had an asthma attack.

None of us called him a prick as I said, but he fcuking was one.

zapitastas

I think these days Dublin corporation seem to pack up the worst offenders and move them out of the county altogether. Some of the towns in meath, louth and Cavan seem to benefit from the transfer. Is just what a lot of these towns need, revitalisation by dumping the dregs of society into them

zapitastas

zapitastas wrote: »

I think these days Dublin corporation seem to pack up the worst offenders and move them out of the county altogether. Some of the towns in meath, louth and Cavan seem to benefit from the transfer. Is just what a lot of these towns need, revitalisation by dumping the dregs of society into them

I have noticed this, also. One thing I have noted about it is that the areas they get moved to, they still maintain their way of life.


Unfortunately, many times the areas they get moved to simply don't have the Garda or Council resources to properly deal with them. They become an infection on the area and begin to attract similar people from other areas (or visitors from Dublin). Before you know it, two have turned to three, to four, etc. and you now have a growing group of anti-social elements congregating in an area that can't police them.

zapitastas

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have noticed this, also. One thing I have noted about it is that the areas they get moved to, they still maintain their way of life.


Unfortunately, many times the areas they get moved to simply don't have the Garda or Council resources to properly deal with them. They become an infection on the area and begin to attract similar people from other areas (or visitors from Dublin). Before you know it, two have turned to three, to four, etc. and you now have a growing group of anti-social elements congregating in an area that can't police them.

There is the resettlement of troublemakers and then also the movement of serious criminals into towns where there is literally no Garda presence. There was a town about and hour and a quarter from dubin that at one time had a collection of some of the biggest criminals in the state and no Gardai stationed in the town. How a situation like that can develop is insane. You would assume there was heavy Garda surveillance but there were still people going missing and being killed

El_Bee

What is the resistance to a curfew for u18's? Kids 10-12 are out till after 10 most nights now, don't understand how that's still athing.

Samuel T. Cogley

El_Bee wrote: »

What is the resistance to a curfew for u18's? Kids 10-12 are out till after 10 most nights now, don't understand how that's still athing.

Their parents.

Mint Sauce

Define anti social behavour in Estates. Not sure how different it is/was in London, but I was bought up in an ex council house on a estate. A few green areas, a fenced play area, rthat had more houses built on it, with every other concrete area having council installed signs, with usual No Ball Games, no noise, no skate boarding. etc, etc.

We weren't bad lads, we did hang around the different areas, either playing football, rollerblading, or just hanging around. Never got in trouble, but did have the wardens called after us a few times, just told to move on. When we asked move where, you built over the one area we had, all they could do was shrug their shoulders and agree with us. Achknowledged we were not causing trouble, but council tenents will ring the council over anything, so best to put up and shut up.

Looking back it seemed the council did play apart, by not providing areas for kids, so of course even the best behaved had no where to go, and ended up disturbing the neighbours as well.

The Crowman

zapitastas wrote: »

I think these days Dublin corporation seem to pack up the worst offenders and move them out of the county altogether. Some of the towns in meath, louth and Cavan seem to benefit from the transfer. Is just what a lot of these towns need, revitalisation by dumping the dregs of society into them

How is it that Dublin based County Councils can move their tenants to another County?

stateofflux

I used to go to visit friends house in Kilinarden in Tallaght bout 8 years ago. Was a leather wearing rocker at the time. Remember getting stopped and encircled by a bunch of locals on entering the estate.

Luckily when i mentioned my mates name they backed off . Area seemed very territorial ...understandably

I was given a full show that saturday evening of joyriding skills and pyromaniac excess.

klaaaz

The councils have a huge responsibility on this issue, there is no severe reprimand for bad families. When you hear of an eviction, the council usually moves the bad families to another area to destroy when in fact those bad families should be made homeless to act as a deterrent. The result is that most people do not want social housing in their area, can you blame them?

The Crowman

The Crowman wrote: »

How is it that Dublin based County Councils can move their tenants to another County?

Use the magic of telephones to contact another district?

biko

I wonder will all examples be from Dublin and surrounds, the ASB capital of Ireland..

Samuel T. Cogley

biko wrote: »

I wonder will all examples be from Dublin and surrounds, the ASB capital of Ireland..

****ty areas all over Ireland just less people talking about them, due tho there being alot less people in those 'cities'.

Gimme A Pound

Some horrific experiences recounted here.

The thugs in question can coast through life with virtual impunity (they don't care about prison - badge of honour, and usually a short sentence, if any) while their neighbours are living in hell. This is why vigilante groups form. And I don't blame them.

Samuel T. Cogley

Zayne Flat Rally wrote: »

This is why vigilante groups form.

Far too infrequently.

LimeFruitGum

I lived in a private estate off the North Circular road from 2000-2006. Our estate was very nice, but we were surrounded by feral scum.
One of my flatmates was a teacher down in Stanhope St, and as soon as the kids knew where Miss lived, we had all sorts of crap. We were the corner house on the first row, so they didn’t have to wander in too far. Knick-knacking would be the least of your worries. They would bang on the kitchen window, jump on the bonnet of the car, stuff all sorts of things in to the letterbox, snowballs with stones or dogsh1t in them. We would chase them off and then the novelty wore off after a while, but still... utterly fearless & brazen kids, you know?
Didn’t matter that we had coded gates and security cameras, the little feckers would tailgate after a car or climb over the railings. Gardai, the TD, and the estate management were beyond useless. It was like “well, you live here, what did you expect?”.

El_Bee

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Define anti social behavour in Estates.

Imagine going to your window and seeing a group of at least 15 but sometimes as many as 30 kids outside your garden, screaming and shouting, some actually in your garden, what would you do?

Wheeliebin30

It’s the gubberments fault.

Samuel T. Cogley

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

It’s the gubberments fault.

It is - social housing estates were a bad idea to begin with. This idiotic policy of up to 30% of some estates being social housing is as equally misguided. It should be 10% max with complaints very quickly followed up on and people moved to shipping containers who cause trouble.

Austria!

Is anti social behaviour increasing, and what solutions are there?

Wheeliebin30

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

It is - social housing estates were a bad idea to begin with. This idiotic policy of up to 30% of some estates being social housing is as equally misguided. It should be 10% max with complaints very quickly followed up on and people moved to shipping containers who cause trouble.

Please explain how it’s the governments fault when morons can’t behave themselves in the natural world like normal people?

So because these animals weren’t put in with normal people it’s not their fault they end up as criminals.

Spare me.....

Mrs OBumble

klaaaz wrote: »

The councils have a huge responsibility on this issue, there is no severe reprimand for bad families. When you hear of an eviction, the council usually moves the bad families to another area to destroy when in fact those bad families should be made homeless to act as a deterrent. The result is that most people do not want social housing in their area, can you blame them?

What do you expect the council to do though? They arent allowed to kill people. And if they evict them from one place , they have to rehouse em somewhere else.

McDermotX

It's cause they got nothing to do and there's no services.

You know.....remember the way we were inundated with facilities, clubs, community groups etc back in the 80s/90s ?

No ? Yeah....me neither.

ziggyman17

Reading threads like this and I fee embarrassed to be Irish, the amount of scum in this country is mad and they all seem to have the law and everything else on their side.. 40 convictions and then caught a 41st time, never mind, do not do it again, slap on the wrist and away you go until you are caught for the 42nd time.. Myself and my sister grew up with our parents in our Grandparents box room, we lived there until my parents could save for a deposit for a mortgage for a family home for us.. Now days everybody thinks they are entitled to a forever home, I am so glad I am in my 40's, I would not like to be a kid growing up in this day and age, which is very sad, because that is not how life should be...

All Seeing Eye

These days the policy of putting HAP tenants or a few social houses in private estates is ensuring more people get to experience anti social behaviour. I don’t know what it is but even when a few of these types of families live in an estate the anti social ones seem to find each other. Then you have the usual ****e such as fly tipping, drinking in the front garden, old cars being abandoned, feral kids etc.

Wheeliebin30

All Seeing Eye wrote: »

These days the policy of putting HAP tenants or a few social houses in private estates is ensuring more people get to experience anti social behaviour. I don’t know what it is but even when a few of these types of families live in an estate the anti social ones seem to find each other. Then you have the usual ****e such as fly tipping, drinking in the front garden, old cars being abandoned, feral kids etc.

It’s the governments fault for not putting the people in private estates.

Nothing to do with personal responsibility at all.

ziggyman17

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What do you expect the council to do though? They arent allowed to kill people. And if they evict them from one place , they have to rehouse em somewhere else.

well, they should not have too,,, you or your family members cause trouble then you are out on the street, want to stay in a house or apartment ( for free for all of the scum) then behave and make sure your kids behave or else your out, after all you brought these things into the world, now control them, this ****ing world is getting worse by the year with the amount of do gooding ****ers that infest the place..

hairyslug

When I lived in arklow, we had a young lad try to break in on a bank holiday Monday, just after we moved in, gardai called around and knew him well enough, that was the start of a few years of hassle, bottles and blocks put through the windows, bin and hedge set on fire, stones thrown at the windows and car damaged.

They eventually grew up and were replaced by kids dealing. Gardai were not willing to do anything. It felt like we were in The Wire, we got to know when they got their deliveries, how they got them in and how they got them out of the estate.

Bassfish

I've experienced trouble in an estate I lived in and the scary thing is it only takes one family in 50 to turn a nice area in to a rough area. One house in the middle of the road I lived on was given to roughest family you can imagine, a reclusive alcoholic mother with her three sons, late teen/early 20s. The whole family well known to the Garai. They had their like minded friends over 4/5 nights a week, loud music, drinking, modified cars being revved into the early hours. Rubbish was built up in the yard until the council came and took it every six months. Everyone in the road, myself included, were in fear of them and wouldn't open our mouths to them for fear of reprisals. The Gardaí were powerless. Luckily I was renting there so wasn't tied to the place.
I realised that there's a good reason people go to great extents to buy in 'nicer' areas.
When i was buying my first house in a new build estate as a husband and father, in spite of hating snobbery and elitism I had to ask my solicitor to check how many social houses were being built in the estate because I was terrified of having to raise kids in the environment I lived in before. I honestly don't care how the person next door got their house, whether they bought it outright or were allocated it by the council. My two best friends are from one of the roughest estates in Cork and you could not meet more decent families than theirs but the unfortunate reality is that with a lot of social housing comes a lot of social problems and these spill over in to the wider community. Most people just want to feel safe and content in their homes and those can afford it will pay a premium to live places where the chances of living among these problems are minimised. Myself included!

r93kaey5p2izun

Yes I have experienced a lot of antisocial behaviour living in council estates. People sitting on your wall and coming into your garden drinking cans and playing loud music, kicking a ball against your door repeatedly is a daily occurrence. Scramblers being driven across greens and footpaths. Joyriding and burnt out cars. Horses on the greeen as a matter of course. Dealing in the alleyways. Cars vandalised. Pets attacked and injured. A few murders, stabbings and shootings just outside. I have found that my home area has improved on the surface in recent years as there is more money around but there is actually more serious crime than ever if you dig a little deeper. The young lads are now working for big players that seem to have taken control if the area.

JamesTom

Community spirit is gone in estates, everyone is a stranger. People should make some effort to be more friendly.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What do you expect the council to do though? They arent allowed to kill people. And if they evict them from one place , they have to rehouse em somewhere else.

I don’t think that’s true, if someone’s evicted from social housing they lose their entilitment afaik

JamesTom

Johan Repulsive TwinMGS wrote: »

I don’t think that’s true, if someone’s evicted from social housing they lose their entilitment afaik

Have you something to back that up? Link.

Ally Dick

Any improvement in an area is never down to the useless lazy gardai anyway

El_Bee

Ally Dick wrote: »

Any improvement in an area is never down to the useless lazy gardai anyway

Motorbikes going up and down the road the entire day, not a single garda car to stop them, they don't even try

Johan Repulsive TwinMGS

Johan Repulsive TwinMGS wrote: »

I don’t think that’s true, if someone’s evicted from social housing they lose their entilitment afaik

I know of a 'trouble' tenant that has been rehoused FIVE times by Louth County Council. Wrecked every house she ever went into.

Your Face

This is a good thread for people who may not know about the reality of the situation.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Your Face wrote: »

This is a good thread for people who may not know about the reality of the situation.

I'm sure we're all about to be labeled as bigots and elitist in a few posts time

John_Rambo

biko wrote: »

I wonder will all examples be from Dublin and surrounds, the ASB capital of Ireland..

I presume you mean ASBO and not ASB, the Australian bank?

We don't have ASBO culture in Ireland, that's a United Kingdom behaviour restriction court order that's leaked in to Irish vernacular from people like yourself soaked in UK culture from day time trash TV and English soap operas.

But don't let that stop you with your usual (boring) parochial Irish regional bashing.

Mrs OBumble

John_Rambo wrote: »

I presume you mean ASBO and not ASB, the Australian bank?

We don't have ASBO culture in Ireland, that's a United Kingdom behaviour restriction court order that's leaked in to Irish vernacular from people like yourself soaked in UK culture from day time trash TV and English soap operas.

But don't let that stop you with your usual (boring) parochial Irish regional bashing.

You're right there's no ASBO culture, because court orders don't really have a deterrent effect on Irish people.

But there's a strong ASB culture (and it's got nothing to do with the Auckland Savings Bank - the Aussie one is called the CBA).

All councils and voluntary housing associations try to minimise ASB. But really it's a losing fight, given their tenant base.

JamesTom

JamesTom wrote: »

Have you something to back that up? Link.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/local_authority_and_social_housing/anti_social_behaviour.html#l1d91f