Security in rented property

Clauric

Looking for some advice on how I can ensure the security of my rented property.

Basically, the flat that I rent is beside the backdoor of the property. This door leads to the back garden of the house, which is accessible by door into a laneway at the back. The neighbours are a**holes, and seem to dislike that I am renting here.

This has resulted in low-level anti-social behaviour, such as banging the door as loudly as possible at all hours of the day and night. Additionally, they have started kicking, and banging on the door; smoking outside of the windows; staring into the windows, including my bedroom window; and knocking on the windows. They've even thrown a dead mouse in the window. They've tried to smash the door down when my girlfriend was alone in the flat, and seem to target the flat only when they think she is on her own.

I've spoken to the landlord, but he is very lazy, only cares about the rent (it's very cheap), and couldn't care less about intra-neighbour disputes. The Gardai are similarly uninterested, as there is no proof, and it is their word versus mine.

I am looking to find a way to record the goings-on, in terms of banging on our door, or slamming on the backdoor. I already have a camera the faces the window, but I am looking for something that can record the backdoor/flat door.

Are there any devices that could cover/record the backdoor surreptitiously, so that they neighbours don't realise they are being recorded? The device would probably need to be motion activated, and have cloud storage.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

99nsr125

Leave already

The cheapness is not worth it

Clauric wrote: »

Looking for some advice on how I can ensure the security of my rented property.

Basically, the flat that I rent is beside the backdoor of the property. This door leads to the back garden of the house, which is accessible by door into a laneway at the back. The neighbours are a**holes, and seem to dislike that I am renting here.

This has resulted in low-level anti-social behaviour, such as banging the door as loudly as possible at all hours of the day and night. Additionally, they have started kicking, and banging on the door; smoking outside of the windows; staring into the windows, including my bedroom window; and knocking on the windows. They've even thrown a dead mouse in the window. They've tried to smash the door down when my girlfriend was alone in the flat, and seem to target the flat only when they think she is on her own.

I've spoken to the landlord, but he is very lazy, only cares about the rent (it's very cheap), and couldn't care less about intra-neighbour disputes. The Gardai are similarly uninterested, as there is no proof, and it is their word versus mine.

I am looking to find a way to record the goings-on, in terms of banging on our door, or slamming on the backdoor. I already have a camera the faces the window, but I am looking for something that can record the backdoor/flat door.

Are there any devices that could cover/record the backdoor surreptitiously, so that they neighbours don't realise they are being recorded? The device would probably need to be motion activated, and have cloud storage.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Clauric

99nsr125 wrote: »

Leave already

The cheapness is not worth it

This is my home for the last 10 years. They've moved in in the last year.

catrionanic

Can you install CCTV? May be more than you want to spend, but if you've lived there ten years and your rent is cheap, it would be worth the spend.

Clauric

catrionanic wrote: »

Can you install CCTV? May be more than you want to spend, but if you've lived there ten years and your rent is cheap, it would be worth the spend.

That is what I was thinking, but am looking for suggestions on what is available, and what would be best in the situation.

runawaybishop

Clauric wrote: »

That is what I was thinking, but am looking for suggestions on what is available, and what would be best in the situation.

Webcam, costs peanuts.

Clauric

runawaybishop wrote: »

Webcam, costs peanuts.

Any suggestions on what would work in terms of webcams? Somebody PMed me suggesting a door peepcam. Never heard of these. Would anybody be alble to suggest what of these would work?

runawaybishop

Clauric wrote: »

Any suggestions on what would work in terms of webcams? Somebody PMed me suggesting a door peepcam. Never heard of these. Would anybody be alble to suggest what of these would work?

You can get wireless security webcams for a tenner, many can be accessed via your phone. A door peepcam is just a camera in a peephole, probably more limited in application than a general webcam.

chicorytip

runawaybishop wrote:

You can get wireless security webcams for a tenner, many can be accessed via your phone. A door peepcam is just a camera in a peephole, probably more limited in application than a general webcam.

These type of people are unlikely to feel threatened by the prospect of garda or court action against them based on accumulated video evidence. If anything, this could be antagonistic and result in them committing even worse offences against you. For the benefit of you and your partners long term health and wellbeing you would be better off looking for somewhere else to live even though, having no direct insight into your particular situation, this is a very easy thing for me to say.

Samuel T. Cogley

If they're renting open a 3rd party dispute with the RTB.

Clauric

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

If they're renting open a 3rd party dispute with the RTB.

Never gets of that. How did one do that?

Samuel T. Cogley

Clauric wrote: »

Never gets of that. How did one do that?

Never done one myself but I'm sure all the info is on the RTB website.

the_syco

Clauric wrote: »

Basically, the flat that I rent is beside the backdoor of the property. This door leads to the back garden of the house, which is accessible by door into a laneway at the back. The neighbours are a**holes, and seem to dislike that I am renting here.

Are you renting a flat in the back garden of a house where the new renters are asswipes?

Graham

Have a read of this:

RTB - Third party dispute resolution services

Victor

Putting CCTV within your property isn't really a problem. Putting it outside you property would be a problem.

sunnysoutheast

If thinking about a camera have a look at the Logitech Circle 2 with a window mount. Expensive but good. You can set it to record when triggered and storage for 24 hours is included, you can pay for a longer retention period or download the clips.

Unfortunately (based on a relative's experience) the RTB third party dispute process is an utter waste of time and effort and this was with people openly selling drugs from the property.

If you do go down that route you need to log everything and be able to prove you've reached a deadlock when discussing it with the landlord.

The_Conductor

Victor wrote: »

Putting CCTV within your property isn't really a problem. Putting it outside you property would be a problem.

It can only point at, and capture, your property. Under GDPR- you have no right to film other than your own property- you cannot film communal areas, private property or elsewhere- and if you do- you must be registered, and you have to provide clear and unequivocal notice of how to access the images and remove images from those captured.

There was a case last week- featuring a local DSP/DSEAP office- where an individual tried to claim privilege and have the office stream wiped- which fell, as it is a public office and the stream was solely from the interior of the building and to protect the employees. There was also a case from a bank in West Dublin- who were forced to wipe images of an underage miscreant from their stream- when requested to do so- as it was captured from the exterior of their property.

Its a minefield- and the OP is opening a right Pandoras box by using CCTV- other than using totally interior cameras. GDPR has rather remarkable provisions associated with it- to say nothing of massive fines- the OP should not under any circumstance consider CCTV systems- without thorough research of the implications- and undertaking their regulatory requirements.

Peepcams- are also proscribed under GDPR- as they face outwards.

runawaybishop

The_Conductor wrote: »

It can only point at, and capture, your property. Under GDPR- you have no right to film other than your own property- you cannot film communal areas, private property or elsewhere- and if you do- you must be registered, and you have to provide clear and unequivocal notice of how to access the images and remove images from those captured.

There was a case last week- featuring a local DSP/DSEAP office- where an individual tried to claim privilege and have the office stream wiped- which fell, as it is a public office and the stream was solely from the interior of the building and to protect the employees. There was also a case from a bank in West Dublin- who were forced to wipe images of an underage miscreant from their stream- when requested to do so- as it was captured from the exterior of their property.

Its a minefield- and the OP is opening a right Pandoras box by using CCTV- other than using totally interior cameras. GDPR has rather remarkable provisions associated with it- to say nothing of massive fines- the OP should not under any circumstance consider CCTV systems- without thorough research of the implications- and undertaking their regulatory requirements.

Peepcams- are also proscribed under GDPR- as they face outwards.

GDPR doesn't apply here if the cameras are just on the ops property and looking at their own property as home security is exempt from GDPR.

The_Conductor

runawaybishop wrote: »

GDPR doesn't apply here if the cameras are just on the ops property and looking at their own property as home security is exempt from GDPR.

Exactly.
Looking at their own property.
You can't point a camera out a window or door- and capture communal areas etc. This is the most misunderstood part of all.
Also- the home security exemption- specifically refers to the interior of the property- not the exterior.

runawaybishop

The_Conductor wrote: »

Exactly.
Looking at their own property.
You can't point a camera out a window or door- and capture communal areas etc. This is the most misunderstood part of all.
Also- the home security exemption- specifically refers to the interior of the property- not the exterior.

You sure about not being able to record the exterior? I know audio is pretty much not allowed as it is likely you will catch audio from public areas.

The_Conductor

runawaybishop wrote: »

You sure about not being able to record the exterior? I know audio is pretty much not allowed as it is likely you will catch audio from public areas.

Having this debate at the moment (in relation to a property with an owner occupier in a managed complex). The advice we have been given- is the home owner can point an exterior camera *at their own door* from the exterior- but not in any other direction- or record the interior of the property (by whatever means they so decide). In this instance- a letter has issued to the owner (following a complaint from a parent whose child was continually filmed walking across a communal piece of lawn)- advising their door peep hole camera had to be removed- alongside 1 exterior camera and one interior camera specifically pointing outwards.

This was following a complaint to An Garda Síochána- who referred to the Management Company- who in turn got advice from the Commissioner.

Its a right mine field.

The short and the simple is- do not record something that you do not specifically own- even incidentally- you will be held responsible- or in the case of a leasehold property- the ultimate owner can be held responsible and action taken, including the specified fines, under the Act.

CCTV- including appropriate signage and designation of data controllers etc- is now a complete and utter mine field.

It sounds bizarre that I can record anything I want with my phone, I can drive around with a dash cam and record all around me but I can’t put up a cctv.

Personally I gladly take my chances. With smart home devices getting more and more popular it’s becoming a regular sight to see nest cams or ring cameras etc on private houses (even web cams facing out from a front window) and I’ve yet to hear any hassle over it of any kind. It’s only more and more popular these systems are going to get and most people are much more concerned about their security than some nonsense and questionable GDPR rules that have yet to be challeneged.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Cameron Green Cement wrote: »

It sounds bizarre that I can record anything I want with my phone, I can drive around with a dash cam and record all around me

But you can't...

The_Conductor

Cameron Green Cement wrote: »

Personally I gladly take my chances.

Don't take any chances- you'll get a complete and utter shock when you see the obligatory fines under the Act (they're not discretionary).

Ignorance of the law is not a defence.

Christopher Gigantic Rejection

Christopher Gigantic Rejection wrote: »

But you can't...

Yes you can!

The_Conductor wrote: »

Don't take any chances- you'll get a complete and utter shock when you see the obligatory fines under the Act (they're not discretionary).

I have no worries at all about being fined, where are all the high profile cases with all the people who have cctv if its such a big deal. I'll do as I please on my property and will worry about my security not nonsense GDPR.

deconduo

The_Conductor wrote: »

Don't take any chances- you'll get a complete and utter shock when you see the obligatory fines under the Act (they're not discretionary).

Ignorance of the law is not a defence.

But GDPR only applies to companies, not individuals? CCTV/recording on your own property might fall foul of normal laws (no idea) but wouldn't be under the remit of GDPR unless you are running a business from the house.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

deconduo wrote: »

But GDPR only applies to companies, not individuals? CCTV/recording on your own property might fall foul of normal laws (no idea) but wouldn't be under the remit of GDPR unless you are running a business from the house.

GDPR applies to everyone.

DPC's advice on the domestic use of CCTV systems is as follows:
"The processing of personal data kept by an individual and concerned solely with the management of his/her personal, family or household affairs or kept by an individual for recreational purposes is exempt from the provisions of the Acts. This exemption would generally apply to the use of CCTVs in a domestic environment. However, the exemption may not apply if the occupant works from home. [ Where the exemption does apply, a person who objects to the use of a CCTV system - for example, a neighbour who objects to images of her/his property being recorded - may be able to take a civil legal action based on the Constitutional and Common Law right to privacy.] It should be noted that recording of a public space, even partially, or when recording is directed outwards from the private setting, it may not be regarded as a ‘personal or household’ activity for the purposes of the Data Protection Acts, and this may have immediate and particular interest to drone operators and data controllers."

Christopher Gigantic Rejection

Christopher Gigantic Rejection wrote: »

GDPR applies to everyone.

DPC's advice on the domestic use of CCTV systems is as follows:
"The processing of personal data kept by an individual and concerned solely with the management of his/her personal, family or household affairs or kept by an individual for recreational purposes is exempt from the provisions of the Acts. This exemption would generally apply to the use of CCTVs in a domestic environment. However, the exemption may not apply if the occupant works from home. [ Where the exemption does apply, a person who objects to the use of a CCTV system - for example, a neighbour who objects to images of her/his property being recorded - may be able to take a civil legal action based on the Constitutional and Common Law right to privacy.] It should be noted that recording of a public space, even partially, or when recording is directed outwards from the private setting, it may not be regarded as a ‘personal or household’ activity for the purposes of the Data Protection Acts, and this may have immediate and particular interest to drone operators and data controllers."

A lot of “may” this and “may” that. Hard to argue that a cctv system facing outward is there for any reason except protection of a persons family and property. I’ll take my chances as I don’t believe there is even the slightest risk of any gdpr nonsense being enforced against a private householder tbh.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Cameron Green Cement wrote: »

A lot of “may” this and “may” that. Hard to argue that a cctv system facing outward is there for any reason except protection of a persons family and property. I’ll take my chances as I don’t believe there is even the slightest risk of any gdpr nonsense being enforced against a private householder tbh.

All it takes is one person to complain. Give me your address, and I'll be that one person.

spaceHopper

At they renting in the house next door or are they tenants of your LL

Clauric

spaceHopper wrote: »

At they renting in the house next door or are they tenants of your LL

Tenants of same LL.

Christopher Gigantic Rejection

Christopher Gigantic Rejection wrote: »

All it takes is one person to complain. Give me your address, and I'll be that one person.

Thankfully most people don’t stoop to these idiotic levels of reporting people who try to ensure their property and family are secure!!

As more and more people invest in smart homes and smart security there is going to be more people with security than without.

TheChizler

I'm pretty sure that GDPR doesn't apply to individuals that process data for personal or household use.

Edit: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32016R0679

Look at recital 18