GP’s surgery - standing room only now in waiting room

We all know General Practitioners’ surgeries have become much busier in recent years due to a combination of population increase and less doctors choosing to qualify in the area. But, in my experience in south Dublin city, my own doctors’ practice has become totally overrun in about the past three months, such that there’s almost standing room only in the waiting room, and today a queue that poured out into the porch entrance. Has anybody noticed such an increase in your area, and why? Are people getting sicker or what?

Qrt

My GP stopped taking on new patients. Maybe yours ought to do the same.

Qrt

Qrt wrote: »

My GP stopped taking on new patients. Maybe yours ought to do the same.

I think most surgeries have done just that. Mine is one that originated on a. Wet push road, but had a second outpost of social medicine in the inner city, and chief doctor, who is now semi-retired, has an ethic/social conscience l to take in those who aren’t being taken in elsewhere going by the demographic presenting at the place. It’s kind of got slightly out of hand where very unwell people have to turn away if they are unable to stand.

screamer

Virtual doctors from far flung places coming to a phone screen near you soon....this is the future of GP care in Ireland. Irish doctors will move more into the consultancy side of things. GPs will be a thing of the past within 20 years....max

screamer

screamer wrote: »

Virtual doctors from far flung places coming to a phone screen near you soon....this is the future of GP care in Ireland. Irish doctors will move more into the consultancy side of things. GPs will be a thing of the past within 20 years....max

With so many self-test items on sale in Lidl etc these days (ecg monitors, pulse oxymeters, etc and identical to the ones you get in a hospital) there will be a lot of gadgets inputting data online for analysis. Home ultrasound will be next, they are currently available on Amazon at around €1200, these will inevitably be available in time to come at today’s equivalent of €300. A full home medical set up will be something like cost of a decent computer and printer set-up, but once again it will be the less well-off who won’t be able to afford or use this stuff. Oh to have a crystal ball!

mvl

On paper I have one GP that I like (as in when I go to hospitals, I refer to one name); but they don't work full hours, and are in demand; so I could end up being seen by half of the GP staff in the clinic within a year, cause my favorite is difficult to get. Issue with that is that I feel some history gets lost, things are slowed down.

But... I do want to see AI in healthcare, to improve diagnostic methods. Guess it won't be that long, few years from now.

mzungu

mvl wrote: »

On paper I have one GP that I like (as in when I go to hospitals, I refer to one name); but they don't work full hours, and are in demand; so I could end up being seen by half of the GP staff in the clinic within a year, cause my favorite is difficult to get. Issue with that is that I feel some history gets lost, things are slowed down.

But... I do want to see AI in healthcare, to improve diagnostic methods. Guess it won't be that long, few years from now.

Aye, it's already here in limited form and by all accounts so far it has been a success. It will be one to watch over the next decade as it gets rolled out on a larger scale.

Rodin

Deleted User wrote: »

We all know General Practitioners’ surgeries have become much busier in recent years due to a combination of population increase and less doctors choosing to qualify in the area. But, in my experience in south Dublin city, my own doctors’ practice has become totally overrun in about the past three months, such that there’s almost standing room only in the waiting room, and today a queue that poured out into the porch entrance. Has anybody noticed such an increase in your area, and why? Are people getting sicker or what?

More people with free GP cards going to the doc with very little wrong with them.
Wouldn't have time to get to the GP myself....

Qrt

Rodin wrote: »

More people with free GP cards going to the doc with very little wrong with them.
Wouldn't have time to get to the GP myself....

Did you personally ask them? Or did you put your telepathy cap on?

People going to the doctors for "little wrong with them" means that little teeny mole on their back doesn't kill them in a few years' time.

Black Swan

screamer wrote: »

Virtual doctors from far flung places coming to a phone screen near you soon....this is the future of GP care in Ireland. Irish doctors will move more into the consultancy side of things. GPs will be a thing of the past within 20 years....max

Cultural technological change to virtual GPs occurring across the pond at an increasing rate.

Really, as OP, I was mainly wondering about the relatively steep sudden increase in numbers attending. Don’t quite know if it’s down to more medical cards being handed out, a relatively sudden recent rise in population or people being more health conscious, or that like with my GP practice the senior generation of doctors heading them are going into semi-retirement with not enough younger doctors options for GP speciality.

mzungu

Deleted User wrote: »

Really, as OP, I was mainly wondering about the relatively steep sudden increase in numbers attending. Don’t quite know if it’s down to more medical cards being handed out, a relatively sudden recent rise in population or people being more health conscious, or that like with my GP practice the senior generation of doctors heading them are going into semi-retirement with not enough younger doctors options for GP speciality.

Nothing to do with medical cards. A problem like this would be area specific and would amount to not having enough doctors. It is probably also not helped by the fact that in some places towns numbers are up as they have grown in population.

FWIW there used to be long queues years ago too.

standardg60

Qrt wrote: »

Did you personally ask them? Or did you put your telepathy cap on?

People going to the doctors for "little wrong with them" means that little teeny mole on their back doesn't kill them in a few years' time.

What's your explanation for the sudden increases then?

Postulating that rises in population and decreases in Gp numbers (both of which can only be gradual) are valid reasons for very recent instances of overcrowded waiting rooms and has nothing to do with vote securing policies of providing free Gp care to vast sections of society is either ignorant or obtuse.

This is not an argument against the idea of providing free Gp care to all, just the utter stupidity to think that it could be absorbed overnight by the existing Gp network.

mvl

But are there less graduates that can do the role ?
If so, why is that ? can it be young GPs emigrating after graduation ? - happens in the country I am coming from ...

Or is HSE not certifying "new" GP practices, using the GPs that are available ?
-for example, could HSE be having some consolidation plan (aiming at reducing costs) -as they may be wrongly reducing GP accessibility for tax payers.

- the example I have on this is: one practice gone in the town I live -as HSE didn't nominate a GP replacement after retirement; HSE have instead nominated other practices that are already full. :mad:

Fathom

mvl wrote: »

. But... I do want to see AI in healthcare, to improve diagnostic methods. Guess it won't be that long, few years from now.

Happening Stateside now. Increasing.

mzungu

Fathom wrote: »

Happening Stateside now. Increasing.

One to keep an eye on over the next few years.

One study that involved 379 orthopedic patients found that AI-assisted robotic procedure resulted in five times fewer complications compared to surgeons operating alone. A robot was used on an eye surgery for the first time, and the most advanced surgical robot, the Da Vinci allows doctors to perform complex procedures with greater control than conventional approaches. Heart surgeons are assisted Heartlander, a miniature robot, that enters a small incision on the chest to perform mapping and therapy over the surface of the heart.

Link: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2018/07/27/how-is-ai-used-in-healthcare-5-powerful-real-world-examples-that-show-the-latest-advances/#f0eebad5dfbe

NIMAN

I would also agree somewhat with people flooding the waiting rooms cos it's costing them nothing.

If there was a minimal charge of say €10 to see your GP, there wouldn't be such queues.

The GP surgeries in the north, where everyone has free access not just those with medical cards, are constantly jammed with people.

madmaggie

Rodin wrote: »

More people with free GP cards going to the doc with very little wrong with them.
Wouldn't have time to get to the GP myself....

Ah this old chestnut. I have a medical card and use it sparingly. Having been a private patient in the past, I value the card very much. That said, the surgery I attend used to be packed out when a previous GP worked there. People were going in to tell the doctor all their little worries, and for a gossip in the waiting room. There's a new doctor now, no tolerance of time wasters, and no queue in the waiting room. It can be done.

TCM

NIMAN wrote:

I would also agree somewhat with people flooding the waiting rooms cos it's costing them nothing.

Anything that's free is over consumed. Hence increased visits to GPs

mzungu

The number of GPs is falling because many are emigrating. This has also led to a decline in the quality of service. I think blaming it on medical cards is incorrect, there were queues long before they came along.

Fathom

Why has Ireland lost so many doctors and nurses? Part 3

Fathom

Fathom wrote: »

Why has Ireland lost so many doctors and nurses? Part 3

Weather and lifestyle in Australia is very attractive (if you like heat); it’s a happy kind of place where people seem very content to be living and working. UK not so sunny, but it has better working conditions and it is a very short hop to visit Ireland, so it would attract more if the homebird types. In Ireland there seems to be poor morale in the health service and it has gone into a nosedive from which recovery will be impossible unless sufficient incentives are given. The 2009 embargo on recruitment was an incredibly stupid thing to impose on health services.

mvl

But GPs have good salaries in Ireland, don't they ?
- interested in seeing a comparison with rest of EU

meanwhile found some statistics for 2015, appears Ireland by comparison with other EU countries has been quite high number of GPs for 100k inhabitants (184)
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Physicians,_by_speciality,_2015_HLTH17.png
- that may mean the GPs working conditions in here are less demanding, comparison with countries that have less GPs e.g. Sweden/UK/Italy (64/78/88)

- can see Ireland was very low on consultants, this is more serious ...

mvl

mvl wrote: »

But GPs have good salaries in Ireland, don't they ?
- interested in seeing a comparison with rest of EU

meanwhile found some statistics for 2015, appears Ireland by comparison with other EU countries has been quite high number of GPs for 100k inhabitants (184)
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Physicians,_by_speciality,_2015_HLTH17.png
- that may mean the GPs working conditions in here are less demanding, comparison with countries that have less GPs e.g. Sweden/UK/Italy (64/78/88)

- can see Ireland was very low on consultants, this is more serious ...

Jeepers, we must be a fierce unwell race of people altogether. Listening to to the amount of prescscribed opiates consumed by Liveline listeners simultaneously, I would seriogskg worry for us. That is, if all these opiates are actually prescribed as opposed to being purchased in the local hostelry from others who have been prescribed same after complaining absolutely of de spurious great paaaaaaiiiiin, all issues on de card of course. Not going to risk up to €70 hard-earned and then being told take two paracetamol and a good walk in de park.

Another cause of it might be that most new doctors are women, and women often choose to work part time because of other commitments. https://www.thejournal.ie/female-doctors-ireland-1046065-Aug2013/

Would be a very interesting study across all professions to chart the rise or fall of part-time employment as women become the dominant gender. Ime (which of course is limited etc), same is true for new dentists and pharmacists but I stand to be corrected.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Another cause of it might be that most new doctors are women, and women often choose to work part time because of other commitments. https://www.thejournal.ie/female-doctors-ireland-1046065-Aug2013/

Would be a very interesting study across all professions to chart the rise or fall of part-time employment as women become the dominant gender. Ime (which of course is limited etc), same is true for new dentists and pharmacists but I stand to be corrected.

I’m a woman who has always worked full time, not much choice but to do so as salary limited. I don’t have much time for (typically half hours) part-time high earners, whatever gender they be, as they tend to demand the same respect as their full-time colleagues in spite of cutting down their experience time to half. A pilot is rated largely by their hours of experience. Half-timers in this field would be largely rated half the worth of their full hours colleagues over time. Interestingly a rather large preportion of female pilots never have children, rather building time to become top of their field. Women and men need to realise full time or at least two thirds time is necessary to keep abreast if a professional type career is chosen.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I’m a woman who has always worked full time, not much choice but to do so as salary limited. I don’t have much time for (typically half hours) part-time high earners, whatever gender they be, as they tend to demand the same respect as their full-time colleagues in spite of cutting down their experience time to half. A pilot is rated largely by their hours of experience. Half-timers in this field would be largely rated half the worth of their full hours colleagues over time. Interestingly a rather large preportion of female pilots never have children, rather building time to become top of their field. Women and men need to realise full time or at least two thirds time is necessary to keep abreast if a professional type career is chosen.

Possibly. I have worked with many excellent people who got more done in their part time hours than others managed working full-time, I do take your point though. I guess some careers are less suited to it than others.

mvl

this was presented in CES 2019 - https://www.tytocare.com/
- guess the future is closer; but I can't see interest for Ireland to be an early adopter ...


PS: GPs situation in the town I am living just got worse: long waits for appointments, no more walk-in visits and not accepting new patients - while least they've increased staff with few new posts.

Graces7

mvl wrote: »

this was presented in CES 2019 - https://www.tytocare.com/
- guess the future is closer; but I can't see interest for Ireland to be an early adopter ...


PS: GPs situation in the town I am living just got worse: long waits for appointments, no more walk-in visits and not accepting new patients - while least they've increased staff with few new posts.

In deep rural Mayo, getting harder and drs who retire cannot be replaced. Another one left a few months ago and the nearest GP is now running a double practice. On our offshore island we get a GP visit every 3 weeks. Clare island used t o have 2 nurses resident; now has one. But we have the chopper at need

I used t o live up in Orkney and on at least one of the smaller islands they now have a resident Nurse Practitioner not a GP. Works well.