Precedent argument in planning and Pleanala

Peadarj

Hi - for someone experienced in planning / Bord Pleanala / judicial review.

I'm helping a friend who has a large public surface water culvert running down their property and they wish to build within 1 meter of it. The drainage department said they can build no less than 2 meters from the drain however some years back the council built an apartment block nearby which is less than 1 meter from the same drain. Several years ago planning was granted for an extension nearby which was built directly over the same drain. Both developments were either side of the house in question.

A planner previously said he doesn't see any reason they can't build close to it and to negotiate with the drainage department but the drainage department is adamant with the 2 meter limit.

The question is, if planning is refused on the grounds of this drain, is there an argument with either Bord Pleanala or through judicial review given there is a precedent set by the council in their own development and having granted permission for another?

BryanF

How large are we talking? Was there a civil eng detail submitted to show how you would build closer?

Peadarj

BryanF wrote: »

How large are we talking? Was there a civil eng detail submitted to show how you would build closer?

It's approx 1.5 meters wide external, 1 meter height, poured concrete from the 1940's. About 1 meter deep from ground. Drainage just said civil engineer could sort that detail out at 2 meters but no less than 2 meters.

DOCARCH

Peadarj wrote: »

....some years back the council built an apartment block nearby which is less than 1 meter from the same drain.

Possibly policy has changed since planning permission was granted for other developments?

If planning permission is refused for a technical/policy reason would not be sure of the chances of ABP overturning the decision?

Lumen

Perhaps you would be better off presenting a qualified counter opinion from a civil engineer rather than relying on what the planners may assume to be bad precedent.

Peadarj

DOCARCH wrote: »

Possibly policy has changed since planning permission was granted for other developments?

If planning permission is refused for a technical/policy reason would not be sure of the chances of ABP overturning the decision?

Thanks - the drainage dept said it was access for their digger if something went wrong. When pointed out about council being closer he wasn't interested in that as an argument. Council was early 2000's the second was 2016. The 2016 one wasn't brought up at the time.

How would one find that out with ABP, they're obviously not going to comment on a case?

Peadarj

Lumen wrote: »

Perhaps you would be better off presenting a qualified counter opinion from a civil engineer rather than relying on what the planners may assume to be bad precedent.

Thanks. They said it was digger access as opposed to an engineering issue and were adamant on the 2 meter distance. Yet, the council permitted their apartment block adjacent to it and another development over it. There's nothing in this proposal that is different from the others. The drain is the same drain carrying the same contents. There would still be digger access in the proposal and it's not sitting over it.

DOCARCH

Peadarj wrote: »

Thanks. They said it was digger access as opposed to an engineering issue and were adamant on the 2 meter distance.

If you are refused planning permission for this reason ABP are unlikely to overturn the decision (no matter the precedent).

Wayleaves like this are usually required for maintenance/replacement.

As suggested above, you need an engineer to assess and provide (possible) solution for the Council to consider. It is an engineering issue! And that's why ABP are unlikely to overturn any decision to refuse planning permission.

Peadarj

DOCARCH wrote: »

If you are refused planning permission for this reason ABP are unlikely to overturn the decision (no matter the precedent).

Wayleaves like this are usually required for maintenance/replacement.

As suggested above, you need an engineer to assess and provide (possible) solution for the Council to consider. It is an engineering issue! And that's why ABP are unlikely to overturn any decision to refuse planning permission.

Thanks Docarch, much appreciate. Will reconsider the engineering route again There was one liaising with the council indirectly.

It's frustrating that they can ignore the wayleaves for their own development which sits on the same drain.

Thanks again.