Replacement sucklers

john mayo 10

Currently buying in replacements sucklers. Looked at 2 5 star saler heifers incslf to a limo bull and another red white hereford 5 star 3rd calfer incalf to a hereford bull. Usually ai all mine to ch bulls. What would these be like to cross with a ch Bull.

blue5000

White heads on a ch calf might put off the export buyer, Italians anyway like lean beef. Biggest issue with the Salers would be temperament.

Simmental.

I used to have Salers and I gave them a.i CH bulls. Its the perfect cross for them. You get a lovely golden calf with good weight gain. They had plenty of milk and never had any trouble calving.

john mayo 10

blue5000 wrote: »

White heads on a ch calf might put off the export buyer, Italians anyway like lean beef. Biggest issue with the Salers would be temperament.

In relation to the saler I would say temperament would be the only issue. The 2 I looked at seemed fairly quiet but u never know. I have a simmental cow that's for the chop and she would kill u if u went into pen after she calf's and she would be like that for weeks

Loves_lorries

Simmental. wrote: »

I used to have Salers and I gave them a.i CH bulls. Its the perfect cross for them. You get a lovely golden calf with good weight gain. They had plenty of milk and never had any trouble calving.

Pity they make limosuines look like lambs.

patsy_mccabe

Like all breeds, there is a huge variation. Plenty of salers with good docility scores. Beguin (SA4059) for example. 4 stars for docility. Or HIGHFIELD ODRAN (SA2153) - 5 stars.

tanko

Loves_lorries wrote: »

Pity they make limosuines look like lambs.

Are you speaking from experience with them or just what you've heard?
A neighbour of mine has 20 Saler cows, theyre pretty quiet even with strangers around. He has a Lim and a CH cow who are bloody dangerous when they see a stranger.
Ive been using Salers on the heifers here for a few years now, very easy calved anyway. RIO and Highfield Odran have given mostly quiet calves.
Knottown Roy and Spiddal Pat look like two good bulls i might try next year.
I'd agree that a CH bull on Saler cows is a great cross, gives golden yellow calves with great hair which sell very well.
Salers are hardy too, good on margainal land.

High bike

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Like all breeds, there is a huge variation. Plenty of salers with good docility scores. Beguin (SA4059) for example. 4 stars for docility. Or HIGHFIELD ODRAN (SA2153) - 5 stars.

have a salers bulled here will be calving at 24 mts in March,a black Rio heifer quiet as a lamb and a red Lzr heifer that's very flighty

148multi

tanko wrote: »

Are you speaking from experience with them or just what you've heard?
A neighbour of mine has 20 Saler cows, theyre pretty quiet even with strangers around. He has a Lim and a CH cow who are bloody dangerous when they see a stranger.
Ive been using Salers on the heifers here for a few years now, very easy calved anyway. RIO and Highfield Odran have given mostly quiet calves.
Knottown Roy and Spiddal Pat look like two good bulls i might try next year.
I'd agree that a CH bull on Saler cows is a great cross, gives golden yellow calves with great hair which sell very well.
Salers are hardy too, good on margainal land.

A neighbour has them, great ch x, easily the most profitable cows he has. one lassie hurt herself in the shed, they put her in field, son in 20s goes to give her water, she ploughs down the field after him on two front legs dragging the two back ones. He runs into the next field through gateway, she ploughed through hedge and fence to get him. The Knackery was called, that stopped the sillyness. Salers and pain not a great mixture =more pain.

_Brian

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Like all breeds, there is a huge variation. Plenty of salers with good docility scores. Beguin (SA4059) for example. 4 stars for docility. Or HIGHFIELD ODRAN (SA2153) - 5 stars.

Our neighbor has Saler cows and they are very easy going. He’s running. CH bull with them and the calves are great, he must be putting some to AI also.

He just needs to learn how to fence a bit and we will all be happy.

Who2

If your going for top priced weanlings then a Hereford has no place. Salers yes but lack a little confirmation for my liking . I sold my only saler cow for temperament issues but bought a roan saler heifer a few months back which I will run with the bull next spring. Hopefully she’s going to stay quiet.

Mac Taylor

tanko wrote: »

Are you speaking from experience with them or just what you've heard?
A neighbour of mine has 20 Saler cows, theyre pretty quiet even with strangers around. He has a Lim and a CH cow who are bloody dangerous when they see a stranger.
Ive been using Salers on the heifers here for a few years now, very easy calved anyway. RIO and Highfield Odran have given mostly quiet calves.
Knottown Roy and Spiddal Pat look like two good bulls i might try next year.
I'd agree that a CH bull on Saler cows is a great cross, gives golden yellow calves with great hair which sell very well.
Salers are hardy too, good on margainal land.

Tanko, do you know what they are like at calving? Have heard the usual horror stories but never heard anything first hand

Hard Knocks

Had a saler cow great cross with the Charolais.
Only thing is you should go with a well muscled bull.
They can handle high calving difficultly bulls with ease

tanko

Mac Taylor wrote: »

Tanko, do you know what they are like at calving? Have heard the usual horror stories but never heard anything first hand

First SalerxLim heifer calved here this spring and she was grand anyway. Have seen them calve at my neighbours place and they dont seem to bad.
Im not saying they're all pets, similar temperament to Lims i'd say. Saler calves are great yokes to get up quick and suck.
A Culard CH bull on Saler cows is supposed to be the business.
I'd agree that Saler cows can lack a bit of confirmation but thats the type of them.

squinn2912

I’ve never seen a quiet saler. Guy round us has almost pure bred ones and they’re all runners. We took one straw off an AI man last year and the calf (out of a quiet heifer) is a nutter. I’d sooner go with the black Polly.

john mayo 10

So it seems Salers have everything going for them bar temperament. Milk .calving ability .etc. It all depends on price really. The seller is getting beck to me over weekend with a price on them. He has some calving down at 2 and a half year old that are due in January and more calving down at 2 year old due in February. What they worth.

charolais0153

Only cow that will be bought here in future is red lim i think

squinn2912

Always seems to go back to that. I love sim cattle too but we only have 1 left and she’s going shortly. About 5 with some sim in them plus two bull calves. Calves head in and out to a creep feeder and you just have to laugh at the difference between the lims and sims - they’d nearly ask you how you’re doing. Then there’s the saler fella... he’s the far end of the field tryin to put them all mad

RobinBanks

Pure bred saler with her CH bull calf at the ploughing.

Lady Haywire

RobinBanks wrote: »

Pure bred saler with her CH bull calf at the ploughing.

Smashing calf.
Will have our first saler calving next year, at 22 months to a ch bull:rolleyes::pac: So will see how she goes. Am toying with keeping another from this year, a beauty of a deep red out of a pb lm heifer.
All a mix of lim/ch/blonde here now, I've tried and tried but just don't like sim cattle. Never had any issue with them but I just prefer a finer cow.
Bags of room inside most of them I've had to calve though!

patsy_mccabe

I've only ever had 2 salers hare. Both from RIO. A heifer out of a huge red lim cow and a bull from a smaller lim. Heifer was as quiet as a mouse, but I sold her 'cause ICBF said she would have no milk. That was before ICBF learned that Salers had huge amounts of milk. She would have made a smashing cow.

The bull was a little rat even as a weanling, so I kept him to use as a teaser bull and used him for 2 seasons. He grew into a huge bull and I killed him before 30 months at U3 and over 400 kgs dead weight. He was super athletic. One day the AI man came into the yard and he got startled. Jumped clean out over a wall. Never touched it. He stayed quiet for me, but I always thought that if he ever turned on me, no way in hell I woul get away from him.

I think if you are using salers, you'd want to cross them on small muscley, exceptionnally quiet cows. Also, you'd want to be keeping them for at least a year before selling, as they still look leggy as weanlings. Talking to a guy at the mart one day who sold a lot of them and he said the exact same thing too.

john mayo 10

Bought the hex cow today. She's actually half hereford half saler. Her dam is by saler Bull RIO. I thought there was saler in her alright. Will.post a picture later

john mayo 10

Picture of hex third calfer out of a saler dam by RIO

cacs

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Picture of hex third calfer out of a saler dam by RIO

Nice animal. You wont go wrong with her

john mayo 10

cathal irwin wrote: »

Nice animal. You wont go wrong with her

Hopefully. Incalf to hereford bull SPL due in February. I will give her a ch Bull then. Wouldnt mind giving her Crossmolina euro but he might be a bit too big for her. We will see.

john mayo 10

Looked at a few 5 star simmental heifers in calf to a limousine Bull. Due to calf in feb/ March. He's looking for 1400 a piece. Nice heifers in fainessential and we'll marked. Is this price about right?

cacs

john mayo 10 wrote: »

Looked at a few 5 star simmental heifers in calf to a limousine Bull. Due to calf in feb/ March. He's looking for 1400 a piece. Nice heifers in fainessential and we'll marked. Is this price about right?

The price is fair enough but it depends on their age. I love sim great cows. There is a but the can very protective mothers at calfing. Be very warry. If there good there good. Great cross back with lim or charolais. Just don’t put sim on them unless you kill your own bulls

squinn2912

The first thing I'd be checking is if there's any Apostle in them and if there is letting them go. They'd be quiet and calm with lots of milk but very poor calvers and middlin shape if you got  a bull as well.

charolais0153

squinn2912 wrote: »

The first thing I'd be checking is if there's any Apostle in them and if there is letting them go. They'd be quiet and calm with lots of milk but very poor calvers and middlin shape if you got  a bull as well.

You can see the % for 1st calvers'2nd and 3rd calvers. Go into calving subsection on icbf bull search

leoch

Why do finishers not like the sim bulls for fattening

bogman_bass

leoch wrote: »

Why do finishers not like the sim bulls for fattening

I don’t know because they out perform charolais here every time.

squinn2912

What are your findings?

cacs

You have a good point why do sim bulls or bullocks fetch such a bad price in the mart. I have a couple of bulls i am about to wean, they are at least 50 kg heavier than the same age lims. Crossed off a lim cow have great shape

Hard Knocks

leoch wrote: »

Why do finishers not like the sim bulls for fattening

Supposed to be a bad kill out

squinn2912

We have two sims Off lim cows we were aiming for heifers. Soon weaning time. They’re fair oul chunks but those cows would’ve been as good back to our lim bull

kollegeknight

So I’m looking to buy a few in the new year and replace my bad performers. I’ve a few small cows and all are calving late

I was thinking of simmental.

I had a saler before and wasn’t impressed.

A friend said charolais and put the limo on them.

I was thinking of trying a few breeds but am open to suggestions.

Danzy

john mayo 10 wrote: »

In relation to the saler I would say temperament would be the only issue. The 2 I looked at seemed fairly quiet but u never know. I have a simmental cow that's for the chop and she would kill u if u went into pen after she calf's and she would be like that for weeks

Any Salers is a very dangerous animal near calving, even 2 weeks before

charolais0153

kollegeknight wrote: »

So I’m looking to buy a few in the new year and replace my bad performers. I’ve a few small cows and all are calving late


A friend said charolais and put the limo on them.

Might be the best bet.
Could be heavy for your land but you could get a smaller type

kollegeknight

charolais0153 wrote: »

Might be the best bet.
Could be heavy for your land but you could get a smaller type

Thanks for that. They would definitely eat heavy for some of my land, I’m going to try a few breeds and see how it goes. It’s more experimental than anything.

tanko

Danzy wrote: »

Any Salers is a very dangerous animal near calving, even 2 weeks before

Thats not true.

orchard farm

kollegeknight wrote: »

Thanks for that. They would definitely eat heavy for some of my land, I’m going to try a few breeds and see how it goes. It’s more experimental than anything.

Hereford?

Albert Johnson

kollegeknight wrote: »

So I’m looking to buy a few in the new year and replace my bad performers. I’ve a few small cows and all are calving late

I was thinking of simmental.

I had a saler before and wasn’t impressed.

A friend said charolais and put the limo on them.

I was thinking of trying a few breeds but am open to suggestions.

I would think that a few shorthorns would be the job for your type of ground. Reasonably sized and fed cows that produce a fair calf. If my memory is right you have a limousine bull so a red or roan cow should produce a red calf. A charolais bull would be the business but may not suit you with being a bit harder calved.

Those sort of cows should rear a good calf and be self sustaining on poorer land. There easily handled for the most part and are an ideal suckler dam in my experience. I'd try to avoid whiter type stock as there generally harder fed. Being a Clare man you should have no bother sourcing a few right makers as you seem to be in the home of good shorthorns.

148multi

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I would think that a few shorthorns would be the job for your type of ground. Reasonably sized and fed cows that produce a fair calf. If my memory is right you have a limousine bull so a red or roan cow should produce a red calf. A charolais bull would be the business but may not suit you with being a bit harder calved.

Those sort of cows should rear a good calf and be self sustaining on poorer land. There easily handled for the most part and are an ideal suckler dam in my experience. I'd try to avoid whiter type stock as there generally harder fed. Being a Clare man you should have no bother sourcing a few right makers as you seem to be in the home of good shorthorns.

A farmer beside me started using belted galaway for cows a few years ago to to a limo, grand hairy calves, calved April sold off cow, no creep, 2— 2.8 a kg . think most of his galaway cows are under 500kg. Working lads buying for outwintering, they're definitely easy on soft ground ground and easy to feed.
800-850 for little hairy scuts.

kollegeknight

orchard farm wrote: »

Hereford?

They don’t seem to make great money in ennis. A lot of my neighbours have them and some struggle to get €650 for calves.

kollegeknight

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I would think that a few shorthorns would be the job for your type of ground. Reasonably sized and fed cows that produce a fair calf. If my memory is right you have a limousine bull so a red or roan cow should produce a red calf. A charolais bull would be the business but may not suit you with being a bit harder calved.

Those sort of cows should rear a good calf and be self sustaining on poorer land. There easily handled for the most part and are an ideal suckler dam in my experience. I'd try to avoid whiter type stock as there generally harder fed. Being a Clare man you should have no bother sourcing a few right makers as you seem to be in the home of good shorthorns.

That’s what I had in the head.

A lad on the way home from work has a pedigree herd and I couldn’t get over the size of the cows. From my memory shorthorns we had were small but these were fine animals.

blue5000

leoch wrote: »

Why do finishers not like the sim bulls for fattening

They are very poor feed converters, they would eat a lot more than the equivalent ch or lim bull. AFAIK blondes are the most efficient feed converters, but the problem with them is that they are slow to put on a fat cover, even as heifers.

charolais0153

kollegeknight wrote: »

They don’t seem to make great money in ennis. A lot of my neighbours have them and some struggle to get €650 for calves.

Most thing you want in a calf is it to be orange or red and a nice coat of hair.
Shorthorn could leave a roan heifer which would be big enough .

A simmental is going to leave a white head and going to be every bit as heavy as a golden charolais cow.
A hereford going to leave a white head also and plainer calf.
Anything black is more than likely going to have black lim calf.
Best way to learn is by mistakes,even better if its somebody else's.

These are two light cows that cross wellwith a limousin bull.

High bike

tanko wrote: »

Thats not true.

hope not I have a couple of 1st calves due in March, has anyone any experience of Aubracs cows for calving ability,milk ,temperament???

Lady Haywire

You need a few like our Jenny, small cow, calves herself, rears them to 350ishkg and goes back incalf first time every year (so far anyway :pac:). This lad here is only 5 1/2 months. Have one daughter off her already & she's the one that bred the deep red saler in the photo thread.

kk.man

High bike wrote: »

tanko wrote: »

Thats not true.

hope not I have a couple of 1st calves due in March, has anyone any experience of Aubracs cows for calving ability,milk ,temperament???

Meant to be A1 on all three of the above.

blue5000

High bike wrote: »

hope not I have a couple of 1st calves due in March, has anyone any experience of Aubracs cows for calving ability,milk ,temperament???

Aubrac cows I have are good on temperament, but you'd know when you had a few aubrac bulls in the crush:D.

Haven't really tested them for calving ability, all mine go in calf to angus. In France they cross them with Culard Charolais, which is a hard calving breed, but Aubrac calves are born very small, 35-40kg so that would help keep birth weights down no matter what they are crossed with.

Their milk is ok, I think the bull I have is +4.6kg for milk. There are milkier bulls out there, if you want milk stay away from frezat in the pedigree.