Do Vets play on people's emotions ? money, money, money

DubInTheWest

Just as the title say's, do vets play on people's emotions to hike up the bill similar to the undertakers when a person dies ?

I heard a story from a relative in the last year, she had a dog that was acting disturbingly, running around in circles bumping into things. Eventually got it to the vets, hooked it up on a drip. The next day she inquired about it and was told they still couldn't tell. She asked about the bill and it was over €800. She paid nearly a grand in total to have the dog cremated. A grand for a days work nice.

My story, our full breed was ill. I knew the dog was dying, it could hardly walk. All I can think is that it ate weed killer from the local farmers or something similar.
Anyway my wife brought it to the vet on a Saturday morning, she asked how much would it cost and they said just get it hooked up with antibiotics and they would let us know. After my sisters experience I was dubious, I rang on the Sunday and it was 450 quid. And still none the wiser. I said we'll have to have the dog put down as we can't afford for the bill to keep rising. The vet said I'll administer one more set of antibiotics and she how the dog is and would call me that evening. Low and behold he rang and said his advice was to have the dog put down that it was kidney failure.

I'm not saying all vets are rip off merchants in regards if you need something done like an animal being spayed etc... but I do think they are rip off merchants if they know there is no hope for the animal and try take you for a few quid. Both of the vets above different, the 800/1000 was in Dublin and the 500 we got charged was in the West of Ireland.

Keeping dog or any animal is expensive people don't seem to comprehend this and now its become a bit of a thing for family's with children to have a dog its part of the package along with family cycling.

That does sound expensive but its hard to tell.

Canis Lupus

Do some of them take people for a ride? I guess so but if you stopped to think about the expenses involved in running a vet surgery then the price is to be expected.

Also I think perhaps it depends on the vet in terms of how hard they go to make an animal well if that makes sense. Like there's no standard duty of care or oversight. A rural vet who maybe knows his clientele might only do the minimum for a dog for a certain client vs that supervet clown on tv who'll be off making a prosthetic for your dog and a prosthetic for the hole he'll leave in your bank account.

DubInTheWest

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Do some of them take people for a ride? I guess so but if you stopped to think about the expenses involved in running a vet surgery then the price is to be expected.

That's basically saying if a business is expensive to run we'll hammer the customer regardless. I have a business that's a lot of work and expensive to run and sometimes I think it's not worth it but I never pass anything on to the client that I shouldn't.

DubInTheWest

DubInTheWest wrote: »

That's basically saying if a business is expensive to run we'll hammer the customer regardless. I have a business that's a lot of work and expensive to run and sometimes I think it's not worth it but I never pass anything on to the client that I shouldn't.

Fair enough, but I'm sure you'd pass on whatever is needed to keep the business going.

Allinall

DubInTheWest wrote: »

That's basically saying if a business is expensive to run we'll hammer the customer regardless. I have a business that's a lot of work and expensive to run and sometimes I think it's not worth it but I never pass anything on to the client that I shouldn't.

How can you make any money if you don’t pass on your overheads + a margin to your customers?

Busy fools and all that.

Also, the same charge could be made against doctors, dentists, solicitors, accountants etc.

Anytime you engage the services of a professional in an area you’re not familiar with, you can always have the perception that you are being ripped off.

Donald Trump

I was in The 'Nam man

You don't understand. You weren't there man






Marley Park in Rathfar-nam

Lady Haywire

If you were unhappy with the expense, get a breakdown of the costs and you'd have seen how it adds up. X-Rays, blood tests, drip, antibiotics, painkillers, etc, all adds up. Most vets i know have spent at least 5/6 years of their life in college to do a job that they wanted to do, not for love of money. They have insurance, fixed costs, rent etc all to pay for too. They're not trying to gouge you out of every last cent to keep poor Fluffy alive so they can get yet more money out of you when it's eventually put down.
A vet relies on word of mouth to encourage more business & to keep the recurring business he already has. No point charging a bullshít amount and rumour spreading like wildfire that they was conning folk out of money, how much longer would it remain a business then?
TBH I've a lot more respect for vets than I do for human doctors, less wages, unsociable patients & a hell of a lot more unsociable hours too.

DubInTheWest

Deleted User wrote: »

Fair enough, but I'm sure you'd pass on whatever is needed to keep the business going.

Of course I would within reason but I'd never rip people off.

Your Face

Our vet doesn't charge what the OP is getting charged.

He's is very old school though.

retro:electro

So would you rather they just put every dog down on the spot without looking to see if it could be treated with anti-biotics first? Part of the problem was your negligence in not even knowing what happened your dog to cause him to become so ill so quickly. Maybe if you’d have known they could target his treatment to whatever it was.

DubInTheWest

Lady Haywire wrote: »

If you were unhappy with the expense, get a breakdown of the costs and you'd have seen how it adds up. X-Rays, blood tests, drip, antibiotics, painkillers, etc, all adds up. Most vets i know have spent at least 5/6 years of their life in college to do a job that they wanted to do, not for love of money. They have insurance, fixed costs, rent etc all to pay for too. They're not trying to gouge you out of every last cent to keep poor Fluffy alive so they can get yet more money out of you when it's eventually put down.
A vet relies on word of mouth to encourage more business & to keep the recurring business he already has. No point charging a bullshít amount and rumour spreading like wildfire that they was conning folk out of money, how much longer would it remain a business then?
TBH I've a lot more respect for vets than I do for human doctors, less wages, unsociable patients & a hell of a lot more unsociable hours too.

I got a breakdown, I don't have it to hand right now but it was like €100 to get it set up on a drip, €60 for antibiotics and other bits and pieces that brought it to 450. This was for 24 hours, like 500 for 24 hours and then to be told there is no hope. I just have the strongest suspicion that the vet knew the dog had to be put down the same day.

Word of mouth, yes I'll be telling people to steer clear of this particular practice thats for sure.

5 years in college for less wages than doctors etc.. pity about them, I done 4 years and have insurance and rent and rates etc.. but thats my own chosen path and I take responsibility.

I hear what your saying and I can appreciate your point to a certain extent as you probably know a vet/s personally or deal with them if you have animals. I don't and I hope I don't have to deal with them again for a long time. I'm a fair person, straight down the line but I don't like rip off.

o1s1n

Pet insurance is worth looking into to try and avoid this kind of thing. Just had my two cats insured for 20 or so a month.

Sabre0001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYnskMLXI7w

Like a lot of services where you're not equipped with the knowledge to find the solution, there is the risk that you'll be overspending. Very necessary to get reviews, especially from people that you know and whose judgement you trust. You'd like to think that vets (and other experts) won't take the piss, but there will always be some who do. You'd also like to think that they will be willing to try and find other solutions before resorting to the nuclear option of putting a dog down.

Aaaand another funny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVkyvxxwDHM

Canis Lupus

The thing is a vet can either do a little or a lot and has to dance the line of expectation of the customer. He could look at a dog and put it down or run a lot of tests and maybe end up keeping it alive but what the owner can afford/wants to spend also has to be taken into a account.

Some will say a vet that did everything was amazing despite the bill whereas someone like the OP will say they were taken for a ride even though the pet lives and it's not like it's an easy job either. The knowledge requirements are huge.

DubInTheWest

I would have payed 1000+ no question if there was a possibility to keep the dog alive. The cost of the dog to buy was over 500. The thing that I was worried about was, he wasn't forthcoming with the bill I had to keep asking him about it and if he thought the dog could be saved. When I said I wasn't willing to pay more if he wasn't confident, he basically held his hands up as far as I can see. Said it was kindney failure and asked if the dog ate anti-freeze as that can cause massive kindney failure. I said I highly doubt it and he said it might have been weed killer or the dog might have been just born with bad kindneys and this was probably the likely story.

retro:electro

DubInTheWest wrote: »

There I was thinking the vet was highly expensive and possibly rip off but all along it's me and my cruelty to animals and the neglect of my dog.

You’re right, that’s absolutely what I said :rolleyes:

2)Just like in a normal hospital, from doing blood tests, a vet should be able to tell what the damage is. When I told him I wasn't prepared to go any higher than 500 unless he was confident the dog would improve, he then said there was no hope, it' was kindney failure.

Vets aren’t psychic, and blood tests can be limiting. They told you they wanted to try one more round of ant-biotics to see would they work and when they failed they told you there was no hope.

I'll take your post with a pinch of salt as I know from reading it, your not educated,

It’s you’re.

Maybe get yourself some pet insurance for your next pooch. Or shop around and don’t settle on the same vet who you feel had previously ripped off your sister.

LirW

For some people money doesn't matter when it comes to their pets, they'd pay whatever necessary to keep the dog well or to give them even a marginal chance to live on. These are the people that you'd see on supervet, they have no problem shelling 10 grand for their beloved pet out.
OP wants to keep the spending limited and if so, you absolutely need to tell the vet that you can't spend more than X.

What do you think would have been an appropriate amount? Your dog was in on a weekend, overnight, that often comes with a premium. They need to have staff in permanently, equipment and all the bits and bobs are expensive. Just because we humans get that paid for in the clinic doesn't mean it's the same for dogs. If you'd have to pay for a hospital stay out of pocket if there wasn't any healthcare in place you'd be in for a shock.

Having a pet costs money, many completely ignore regular check-ups, vaccinations or a decent diet just in order to have the fluffy family dog. When something happens the shock is big that they can end up being a money drain.

Get pet insurance and tell the vet, any vet next time how much money you can spend.

dexter_morgan

So your dog wandering around the local farms! You are not responsible enough to own a dog. If you want to live in a rural area, please have a little respect for the farmers and their livestock. Keep dogs within your boundary and if you can't, don't own a dog.

DubInTheWest

LirW wrote: »

For some people money doesn't matter when it comes to their pets, they'd pay whatever necessary to keep the dog well or to give them even a marginal chance to live on. These are the people that you'd see on supervet, they have no problem shelling 10 grand for their beloved pet out.
OP wants to keep the spending limited and if so, you absolutely need to tell the vet that you can't spend more than X.

What do you think would have been an appropriate amount? Your dog was in on a weekend, overnight, that often comes with a premium. They need to have staff in permanently, equipment and all the bits and bobs are expensive. Just because we humans get that paid for in the clinic doesn't mean it's the same for dogs. If you'd have to pay for a hospital stay out of pocket if there wasn't any healthcare in place you'd be in for a shock.

Having a pet costs money, many completely ignore regular check-ups, vaccinations or a decent diet just in order to have the fluffy family dog. When something happens the shock is big that they can end up being a money drain.

Get pet insurance and tell the vet, any vet next time how much money you can spend.

I think some people are missing the point. I would have spent whatever it took if it could have kept the dog alive as the dog was loved by the family. The point of the thread was to ask if vets, who know the animal has no chance of survival keep the speel going to extract money. I knew the dog was in a bad way. I just wanted the vet to say yep it will take time it's an infection or whatever. I just get the impression my vet knew when he saw the dog, or after blood tests were done there was no hope. Just by my story and my relative, to me it seems common practice among vets. If the vet would have told me there is a good chance the dog can be saved, of course I'd have paid whatever it took.

DubInTheWest

dexter_morgan wrote: »

So your dog wandering around the local farms! You are not responsible enough to own a dog. If you want to live in a rural area, please have a little respect for the farmers and their livestock. Keep dogs within your boundary and if you can't, don't own a dog.

Never said the dog was wandering around farms, your another clown that makes assumptions.

retro:electro

DubInTheWest wrote: »

Never said the dog was wandering around farms, your another clown that makes assumptions.

You said your first assumption was that it has eaten weed killer from the local farmers. So are you just going to insult everyone who tells you something you don’t want to hear? Maybe you’re the one who needs to wise up and educate yourself with regard to the responsibilities and possible financial implications of owning a dog.

dexter_morgan

DubInTheWest wrote: »

Never said the dog was wandering around farms, your another clown that makes assumptions.

And you're an arrogant ':%_". You said you thought it ate weedkiller from the local farmers!

AustinLostin

Sorry to hear about your dog. Pet insurance is vital next time.

Do vets play on peoples emotions? Well, its kind of unavoidable, they have costs, and you are emotionally invested in your animal (I would hope). Those costs obviously vary from case to case, and I think its a bit unfair to put pressure on a vet to make call if the animal will live or die before you are willing to spend. Like humans, their response to treatment is individual.

It is of course incredible ****ty when you spend a huge amount to try to save your pet and it doesn't work out. But I also see the vet has to cover his costs and make profits, and overheads are huge. There is no state subsidy obviously for medication/treatment expenses so customer will be hit with the full whack.

Although if you think costs are bad in Ireland, they are fraction compared to the same treatments in the UK.

All I'll say is .. I have a dog with a chronic illness. One day, after leaving the vets for maybe the tenth time in a month (visits that included, sedations ,x-rays , injections ,etc), I sat in my car and cried. I couldn't drive for the tears. I cried with absolute overwhelming gratitude to my vet who had sent me out the door with a "it's grand , no charge" and not for the first time. He's forever half charging me, not charging me or just charging for the tablets but not the consult. And I've witnessed him doing it to other people. No charge for Mrs. Smith today!

Next time I get a dog, I'll be getting insurance. Unfortunately my dog was diagnosed before I had the chance.

seamus

While vets in theory have a general obligation to be ethically sound, in reality they're not bound to the same standards or consequences as a doctor or other medical professional.

As such, you will get vets who treat it partially as a trade job and try to upsell sh1t that people don't need, regardless of whether it is best for the animal.

That said, it does have its own unique challenges; animals can't tell you what's wrong. And since vets are small clinics, they don't have laboratories on-site. So in cases like the OP, when a patient comes in and the owner says, "He's not well, dunno why", then the vet doesn't know if it's poisoning, or an infection, or a systemic failure, or what. So they have to hedge their bets, try antibiotics and whatever else, until they can get blood results back.

Animals also tend to come in when they are very far along in their illness. They don't grumble and groan, so they don't see a vet until they lose the ability to walk. Which means that waiting 3/4 days for blood test results may mean a dead animal, so treatment has to start now.

I'm not entirely sure what the OP wanted from the vet tbh. The costs seem steep, but it doesn't seem to me like the vet took the wrong course of action or was trying to extract money by prolonging suffering. He was simply trying to treat the animal based on the information available to him.

People do demand more from vets these days. 30 years ago a very sick dog was put to sleep. Blood tests and antibiotics were for prize racehorses and prime cattle. Now people will spend several thousand euro trying to keep an old dog alive. Vets have to walk this fine line, and it's not a particularly profitable career. You'll rarely see a wealthy vet tbh. Yer man in the UK with his TV show has a decent amount of money because you should see what he charges.

Canis Lupus

Deleted User wrote: »

All I'll say is .. I have a dog with a chronic illness. One day, after leaving the vets for maybe the tenth time in a month (visits that included, sedations ,x-rays , injections ,etc), I sat in my car and cried. I couldn't drive for the tears. I cried with absolute overwhelming gratitude to my vet who had sent me out the door with a "it's grand , no charge" and not for the first time. He's forever half charging me, not charging me or just charging for the tablets but not the consult. And I've witnessed him doing it to other people. No charge for Mrs. Smith today!

Next time I get a dog, I'll be getting insurance. Unfortunately my dog was diagnosed before I had the chance.

You'll be back often enough to keep him topped up for the few times he gives you the freebies :P

(still nice of him though)

Shenshen

DubInTheWest wrote: »

I think some people are missing the point. I would have spent whatever it took if it could have kept the dog alive as the dog was loved by the family. The point of the thread was to ask if vets, who know the animal has no chance of survival keep the speel going to extract money. I knew the dog was in a bad way. I just wanted the vet to say yep it will take time it's an infection or whatever. I just get the impression my vet knew when he saw the dog, or after blood tests were done there was no hope. Just by my story and my relative, to me it seems common practice among vets. If the vet would have told me there is a good chance the dog can be saved, of course I'd have paid whatever it took.

So you wanted to know what the animals chances were, but you wanted the vet to simply gaze into a crystal ball and tell you?

How on earth would the vet know what's wrong with the dog, what it's chances are and what could be done to help it without running tests until they found out?

Blood tests test for very specific things. There's no such thing as a blood test that will find out if there's a certain type of infection, a poisoning or a kidney problem all in one go. If your suspicions were any of the above, that's 3 separate tests.

I sometimes wonder if people think vets work like car mechanics...

Del2005

Medicine is expensive and still very hit and miss with the diagnosis even for Humans, see the cost of healthcare in the USA where it's not heavily subsidised by other taxpayers. Look at the cost of scans/tests done in private hospitals here for the true cost of health care not the HSE or the crumbling NHS, they will have the same costs for a vet as doctor

So a vet trying a course of antibiotics on an animal is like a doctor doing the same with a person. They usually work but sometimes they don't and the costs can soon ad up when the doctor starts trying different treatments if paying private vs public, and all vets are private.

smacl

LirW wrote: »

OP wants to keep the spending limited and if so, you absolutely need to tell the vet that you can't spend more than X.

Also depends to an extent on how many pets you've got in the house and whether the person who's paying the bill owns the pet. My daughter regularly fosters kittens from the DSPCA and we've ended up keeping a number over the years. currently having four. If one of them gets sick and vet bills start mounting up it will get put down and we'll get another. While that might sound cruel, if it was any other way I wouldn't let her keep pets in the first place. We also have a family dog that we'd spend quite a bit more on if push came to shove, but there are still limits. I agree entirely that it makes sense letting the vet know what these limits are.

Autecher

I like the vet I use. He is very reasonable when he explains all the things my pets need. Here is his picture for anyone that wants to seek him out

Ragnar Lothbrok

I had the exact opposite experience of the OP.

A couple of years ago, my cat Shadow was attacked by a dog, and left in a very poor condition: broken jaw, broken leg, gashes etc. To be honest, I didn't expect the vet to be able to save him, and fully expected the vet to put him to sleep.

The first thing the vet said was "No matter how much the treatment comes to, I will not charge you more than 300 euro." He didn't even know at the time how many nights Shadow would need to spend in the surgery.

After a couple of days, the vet rang me to say that Shadow could be collected. He gave me the itemised bill - antibiotics, x-rays, overnight stays, etc. The bill should have been over €700, but he would not take more than the €300.

I had only been to this vet a couple of times before, for minor things, and didn't know him well. In fact, I am amazed he gave me such an offer.

So, like most businesses I suppose, the answer to the original question is that some vets will overcharge, while others won't (although I don't necessarily think the vet in the OP was in fact overcharging).

freshpopcorn

Pet insurance is a good thing to have.
We have a handful of vets in our area. One tough is known for keeping people pets alive for a few days and then sending out a massive bill.
Even with pet insurance I wouldn't have much faith in her.

Airyfairy12

Some do, my cat was hit by a car and broke his leg so I brought him straight into the vet, the vet told me he'd need to be operated on and the operation would cost over 1500 euro. I didnt have that money so he told me my only other option was to put my cat down, he said it will be cheaper and if I dont get the op he's going to die anyway so I should probably just pay to get him put to sleep.

I wasnt putting my cat to sleep, over a fixable broken leg so I rang around a few different vets and found this woman in another town who said she would do the operation for 90 euro. I went to her, she did a few scans and said he doesnt need an operation and that would be too stressful for him anyway since he'll heal by himself. She told me the vet was ripping me off and a small leg operation is a very basic and quick surgery.
He healed up quick and was running around again like nothing happened after 3 months.

Nijmegen

If you don't want to get stung for massive bills when the unexpected happens, pet insurance is your only man. Typically policies have an excess of a hundred quid and after that they'll cover most things.

The trick with it is to get a policy that maintains protection against conditions that develop - so, some policies will cover you if your pet gets a condition this year but when you go to renew the same condition will not be covered (as it's "new" insurance.)

The Tetrarch

o1s1n wrote: »

Pet insurance is worth looking into to try and avoid this kind of thing. Just had my two cats insured for 20 or so a month.

I tried.
They only insure 5 and under. My two 12 year olds rejected.

Mountainsandh

Yeah, I think it depends on the vet too.

OP I'm sure what you describe happens for the reasons you state, on occasion. My experience has been very positive but I've heard horror stories from others.

My vets operated on my cat on a Sunday once, he had been attacked and it wasn't a small thing as his guts were hanging out, he was kept in for several days after, and it cost me 450 euros at the time. That's the most I've ever paid.

I do pay hefty prices on vaccinations and other things throughout the year though, so I think in the case of my vets, they don't hesitate to charge well throughout the year on smaller things, but when something more serious is afoot, they try to save people's pet first, and put budgeting in second position.

I suppose for every one unscrupulous vet who sees your dying pet as a dollar tree, there must be a multiple of very ethical ones who are just trying to save pets and keep their business afloat.

One thing's for sure : medication costs too much in Ireland, for both humans and pets. It's shocking and really drives prices up.

Jimmy.

When you sleep with your pet that is when it becomes a problem.