Help please, Ioniq or Leaf

patmac

Hi folks,
I am close to pushing the button on a new Electric Car.
I have 3 options for my commute:
Option 1. Total 108kms. My preferred current commute which is 56kms one way total (to avoid school runs in the morning and traffic) :motorway 19kms, back road, Motorway 14kms, back road.
50kms home: back road, motorway 14kms, back road.
Option 2. 112kms. The second commute I use during bad weather/ road works is 56kms each way, motorway 19kms, back road, Motorway 14kms, back road.
Option 3. 100kms. The third route is 50kms each way but traffic can be busy in the morning.
I do a 150kms trip to the airport 2-3 times a year but nothing mad after that.
I have been offered a 181 Ioniq SE from a Hyundai car dealer @ €29k this morning, the expected range is 200kms, meaning I would have to charge the car every day.

I can get a Leaf for €32k which is the limit of my finances. The expected range is 230kms which would mean only 1 charge every second day possibly.I would be a cash buyer, so I am sure I can get a few €€ off. The Kona and Niro seem to be out of my range.
Any advice would be greatly received.

Bigus

Courtesy of soarer from the Ioniq thread


Pros & Cons (as I see them)

Ioniq has 28kWh usable, L40 has 38kWh usable. Both manufacturers offer an 8 year warranty.

Ioniq has a dedicated battery thermal management system that regulates the temperature. this should keep the battery in tip top condition for as long as possible.

L40 has no dedicated management onboard, and relies on passive (useless) cooling. To help baby the battery, Nissan installed software that, depending on the battery temperature at the start of charging, will throttle the charging rate in varying degrees down to 22kW ie. less than half of maximum.
Everything increases battery temperature...charging, discharging (driving), weather, so in not having active management, Nissan really fukking dropped the ball.

Ioniq is way more efficient than the L40, both in terms of aerodynamics and drivetrain. It's also capable of faster DC charging due to it's battery management.
When the need for efficiency is taken out of it (ie. local driving, charging at home, etc.) the L40 will travel further on a full charge*.

It's hard to buy a new Ioniq due to supply issues.

The L40 is available at the drop of a hat.

The L40 is a physically bigger car, meaning a roomier interior (I think).

I think they're pretty much the facts...everything else is subjective (looks, etc.)

I'd personally go for the L40, as my usual driving routine would never see me affected by #rapidgate.
The Ioniq suits people like ELM327, Irishgrover, maybe Unkel, as they do more mileage and may need more than one rapid charge a day.

So really, the choice of car comes down to your driving.

* - I'm assuming it would, seeing as aerodynamics don't come into it, and it has 35% more capacity.

ewj1978

L40's can be got for a lot less than €32k.

On that range and driving I'd even look at a L30. The few trips to the airport are inconsequential as you'd be able to plug into a fast charger.
Not sure why you're worried about charging only once or twice every few days.
40000kms per year would cost you ~€900 if you were to charge at home all the time.

patmac

Bigus wrote: »

Courtesy of soarer from the Ioniq thread


Pros & Cons (as I see them)

Ioniq has 28kWh usable, L40 has 38kWh usable. Both manufacturers offer an 8 year warranty.

Ioniq has a dedicated battery thermal management system that regulates the temperature. this should keep the battery in tip top condition for as long as possible.

L40 has no dedicated management onboard, and relies on passive (useless) cooling. To help baby the battery, Nissan installed software that, depending on the battery temperature at the start of charging, will throttle the charging rate in varying degrees down to 22kW ie. less than half of maximum.
Everything increases battery temperature...charging, discharging (driving), weather, so in not having active management, Nissan really fukking dropped the ball.


Ioniq is way more efficient than the L40, both in terms of aerodynamics and drivetrain. It's also capable of faster DC charging due to it's battery management.
When the need for efficiency is taken out of it (ie. local driving, charging at home, etc.) the L40 will travel further on a full charge*.


It's hard to buy a new Ioniq due to supply issues.

The L40 is available at the drop of a hat.

The L40 is a physically bigger car, meaning a roomier interior (I think).

I think they're pretty much the facts...everything else is subjective (looks, etc.)

I'd personally go for the L40, as my usual driving routine would never see me affected by #rapidgate.
The Ioniq suits people like ELM327, Irishgrover, maybe Unkel, as they do more mileage and may need more than one rapid charge a day.

So really, the choice of car comes down to your driving.

* - I'm assuming it would, seeing as aerodynamics don't come into it, and it has 35% more capacity.

Regarding the mileage anyone got any figures for either car doing 120kms and would this affect the heating of the Leaf.

KCross

patmac wrote: »

Hi folks,
I am close to pushing the button on a new Electric Car.
I have 3 options for my commute:
Option 1. Total 108kms. My preferred current commute which is 56kms one way total (to avoid school runs in the morning and traffic) :motorway 19kms, back road, Motorway 14kms, back road.
50kms home: back road, motorway 14kms, back road.
Option 2. 112kms. The second commute I use during bad weather/ road works is 56kms each way, motorway 19kms, back road, Motorway 14kms, back road.
Option 3. 100kms. The third route is 50kms each way but traffic can be busy in the morning.
I do a 150kms trip to the airport 2-3 times a year but nothing mad after that.
I have been offered a 181 Ioniq SE from a Hyundai car dealer @ €29k this morning, the expected range is 200kms, meaning I would have to charge the car every day.

I can get a Leaf for €32k which is the limit of my finances. The expected range is 230kms which would mean only 1 charge every second day possibly.I would be a cash buyer, so I am sure I can get a few €€ off. The Kona and Niro seem to be out of my range.
Any advice would be greatly received.

24kWh Leaf is out for you.
30kWh or 40kWh Leaf or Ioniq will all suit fine with plenty range to spare in all weather and conditions.

So, you dont have to buy new. A 2yr old 30kWh Leaf will be grand.

Forget the whole charge everyday or every other day thing. Just come home, plug it in and its ready in the morning. It takes no more than 10secs of your time. Dont let that decide which car you go for.

Two questions...
- Are you a one or two car house?
- Do you have a driveway that allows you to install a home charger?

KCross

patmac wrote: »

Regarding the mileage anyone got any figures for either car doing 120kms and would this affect the heating of the Leaf.

30kWh Leaf will do 120km with plenty to spare (heating or no). More like 150km+(since you have some motorway). 160-180km for slower driving.
40kWh Leaf will obviously have more to spare.

n97 mini

ewj1978 wrote: »

40000kms per year would cost you ~€900 if you were to charge at home all the time.

Charge on night saver and it'll be closer to €400 per year.

irishgrover

patmac wrote: »

Regarding the mileage anyone got any figures for either car doing 120kms and would this affect the heating of the Leaf.

either car would do 120km very easily beyond any legal speed limit, on any road.
Re "heating of the leaf"
- if you mean being able to turn on the heating in the leaf, then no, not at all (assuming you mean the Leaf 2)
- if you mean heating of the battery / rapid gate etc - it would not apply unless you are doing long distances and using rapid charging

In your use case - I'd suggest just talking both of them for a long teset drive, and see which one you like the best. Then look at availability, cost, extras etc. This would be more important than performance or efficiency really which should not impact you if your commute in only 120
best of luck

ELM327

For your commutes it comes down to personal preference really and availability.
As mentioned both cars can do it equally well, the l40 doesnt encounter rapidgate as in your scenario you're charging at home (right?) and therefore don't need to fast charge at all.

unkel

As others have said, both will do your trips very well in all circumstances. It's up to personal preferences really. Have a look too at the specs of the cars. One car might have something that the other hasn't, which might be important to you.

patmac wrote: »

I have been offered a 181 Ioniq SE from a Hyundai car dealer @ €29k this morning, the expected range is 200kms, meaning I would have to charge the car every day.

I can get a Leaf for €32k which is the limit of my finances. The expected range is 230kms

Make no mistake here though. If you drive at the speed limits on open roads / motorways, then the expected range of both cars is similar. Probably a bit more range on Ioniq

If you never need to charge on public chargers, this might not be all too relevant to you, but the Ioniq charges a lot quicker, it doesn't suffer from the #rapidgate issue and it will be able to charge at the new very fast Ionity chargers (Leaf can't charge at those). This might also impact on the resale value of the Leaf

Did you consider Hyundai Kona EV or Kia Niro EV? Both a few grand outside of your budget but their range is over twice that of Leaf / Ioniq. Both will probably keep their value well.

patmac

KCross wrote: »

24kWh Leaf is out for you.
30kWh or 40kWh Leaf or Ioniq will all suit fine with plenty range to spare in all weather and conditions.

So, you dont have to buy new. A 2yr old 30kWh Leaf will be grand.

Forget the whole charge everyday or every other day thing. Just come home, plug it in and its ready in the morning. It takes no more than 10secs of your time. Dont let that decide which car you go for.

Two questions...
- Are you a one or two car house?
- Do you have a driveway that allows you to install a home charger?

My wife has an ICE
We have a driveway.
Thanks

patmac

unkel wrote: »

As others have said, both will do your trips very well in all circumstances. It's up to personal preferences really. Have a look too at the specs of the cars. One car might have something that the other hasn't, which might be important to you.



Make no mistake here though. If you drive at the speed limits on open roads / motorways, then the expected range of both cars is similar. Probably a bit more range on Ioniq

If you never need to charge on public chargers, this might not be all too relevant to you, but the Ioniq charges a lot quicker, it doesn't suffer from the #rapidgate issue and it will be able to charge at the new very fast Ionity chargers (Leaf can't charge at those). This might also impact on the resale value of the Leaf

Did you consider Hyundai Kona EV or Kia Niro EV? Both a few grand outside of your budget but their range is over twice that of Leaf / Ioniq. Both will probably keep their value well.

It's hard to justify the Kona or the Niro at €37.5k, I'm thinking €29k is also a lot for a demo Ioniq SE 181D, the 32k for the Leaf 40 is for the top of the range version although I'm not sure yet what spec I am getting.

ELM327

patmac wrote: »

It's hard to justify the Kona or the Niro at €37.5k, I'm thinking €29k is also a lot for a demo Ioniq SE 181D, the 32k for the Leaf 40 is for the top of the range version although I'm not sure yet what spec I am getting.

Considering all things being equal, the Ioniq is a better buy if the price is cheaper since both cars will easily do the job.


That is, unless the OP prefers the look of the leaf?

patmac

ELM327 wrote: »

Considering all things being equal, the Ioniq is a better buy if the price is cheaper since both cars will easily do the job.


That is, unless the OP prefers the look of the leaf?

To be honest the rapidgate is putting me off, even though it probably will never affect me I think long term the resale value will work against it.

ELM327

patmac wrote: »

To be honest the rapidgate is putting me off, even though it probably will never affect me I think long term the resale value will work against it.

That and the superior motorway range were the main reasons I picked an ex demo Ioniq over an L40.


I mean there will always be better (longer range anyway) EVs in the future. The problem for me is what will the price disparity be between a leaf40 and a leaf 60 with a battery management system and faster charging.

Soarer

patmac wrote: »

To be honest the rapidgate is putting me off, even though it probably will never affect me I think long term the resale value will work against it.

Don't let that afftect your decision.

Every car depreciates, with the exception of older EVs that seem to be holding or slightly appreciating.

For the L40 to depreciate more than normal, it'll mean that current L30s will be worth more. Can't see that happening.

But then, it's your money.

But like my quoted post above, I'm like you in that rapidgate would never affect me. But if I was buying, I'd go L40.