Armstrong Cup 2018-19

sodacat11

I heard that both the venue and the date of the last round might be changed. They both certainly should be!!

DmanDmythDledge

sodacat11 wrote: »

I heard that both the venue and the date of the last round might be changed. They both certainly should be!!

Again?

sodacat11

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

Again?

Better late than never.

Past_Pawn_99

Trinity 3 - 5 Bray

Tim Harding

Can anyone explain why, in the current Armstrong table, all Trinity's points are deducted under "Reg" although in the posted list of unregistered players there are no Trinity Armstrong players, only two subs from the Ennis team?

(And only some of the Ennis team's points are deducted.)

It's impossible to make sense of the league table the way it is at present.

sodacat11

Tim Harding wrote: »

Can anyone explain why, in the current Armstrong table, all Trinity's points are deducted under "Reg" although in the posted list of unregistered players there are no Trinity Armstrong players, only two subs from the Ennis team?

(And only some of the Ennis team's points are deducted.)

It's impossible to make sense of the league table the way it is at present.

Reg , or Reginald as he prefers to be called, is actually a mischievous gremlin. He is responsible for the nonsensical league table and the silly fixture list which now sees teams losing players for matches because their players are playing chess in Galway and Ennis. No doubt he is also responsible for the league not ending until sometime in the summer, whenever that may be.

sodacat11

Joking aside, all players should be paid up and registered with the ICU BEFORE the leagues begin. What is happening at the moment is that some players don't pay at all and their clubs end up paying for them in an effort to avoid losing points. Advance payment and registration would stop teams importing players late in the season too.

macelligott

Any result for Gonzaga B - Dublin ?

sodacat11

macelligott wrote: »

Any result for Gonzaga B - Dublin ?

4-4 Gonzaga had to field a weakened team because of the clash with Galway which is very unfair to Rathmines. Thanks again Reginald

cdeb

In fairness, the LCU have long said they can't avoid clashes with every tournament and will only prioritise Leinster events and Bunratty. I think it's entirely reasonable. The leagues would never get finished if clashes with Limerick, Ennis, Cork, Galway, the Ulster championships, the Tory Island King of the Board tournament, etc, had to be avoided.

The option was there to rearrange boards, which I know other clubs have done.

sodacat11

cdeb wrote: »

In fairness, the LCU have long said they can't avoid clashes with every tournament and will only prioritise Leinster events and Bunratty. I think it's entirely reasonable. The leagues would never get finished if clashes with Limerick, Ennis, Cork, Galway, the Ulster championships, the Tory Island King of the Board tournament, etc, had to be avoided.

The option was there to rearrange boards, which I know other clubs have done.

Clubs threatened with relegation are hardly going to facilitate opponents by rearranging games.

cdeb

Tough so.

Also, weren't the LCU fixtures done before Galway was scheduled? Should the LCU have foreseen what weekend Galway was going to be on? Or should they have dictated to Galway what weekend to select?

Not seeing what practical solution there is here.

undisputed

One solution is to play all league matches just on weekdays. No weekend matches at all, maybe with exception for Kilkenny only.

ChessPlayer123

sodacat11 wrote: »

4-4 Gonzaga had to field a weakened team because of the clash with Galway which is very unfair to Rathmines. Thanks again Reginald

How is that unfair on Rathmines, but Gonzaga A fielding a 1300 against Rathmines isn't unfair on Dublin? Or is it unfair on Dublin too but you didn't say anything because the world revolves around Sodacat?

sodacat11

ChessPlayer123 wrote: »

How is that unfair on Rathmines, but Gonzaga A fielding a 1300 against Rathmines isn't unfair on Dublin? Or is it unfair on Dublin too but you didn't say anything because the world revolves around Sodacat?

The Gonzaga 1300 is a lot better than that as he proved by drawing with an 1800. Dublin's final two fixtures are against a weakened Gonzaga B and a probably even more weakened Trinity (according to Tim) so yes it is unfair to Rathmines especially as we always get Gonzaga "A" AND Benildus in the final rounds and they are seldom weakened.
Yes my world does revolve around Sodacat ,and those I love. If your world doesn't revolve around you then perhaps you need some therapy to deal with your low self esteem.

Rathminor

sodacat11 wrote: »

Clubs threatened with relegation are hardly going to facilitate opponents by rearranging games.

I understand that Gonzaga did ask to move some boards to midweek to avoid clashing with Galway, but Dublin (as is their right) refused.

When we played Dublin earlier this year, Dublin were able to facilitate us by playing one board on a Saturday, although we were hoping to play 2 on a Saturday afternoon.

I think it’s a challenge for both the league controller in trying to get 11 rounds into the calendar, whilst accommodating certain events and then for captains to get suitable dates for games that work either on Saturday afternoons or midweek evenings.

ChessPlayer123

sodacat11 wrote: »

The Gonzaga 1300 is a lot better than that as he proved by drawing with an 1800. Dublin's final two fixtures are against a weakened Gonzaga B and a probably even more weakened Trinity (according to Tim) so yes it is unfair to Rathmines especially as we always get Gonzaga "A" AND Benildus in the final rounds and they are seldom weakened.
Yes my world does revolve around Sodacat ,and those I love. If your world doesn't revolve around you then perhaps you need some therapy to deal with your low self esteem.

did Gonzaga "B" 1300 not beat a 1667? Giving him a better performance than Gonzaga "A"'s 1300? So unfair on Dublin in my opinion. And the Armstrong is a round robin league, so every team has to play Gonzaga A and Benildus, the point of the season you play them is irrelevant.

Past_Pawn_99

ChessPlayer123 wrote: »

did Gonzaga "B" 1300 not beat a 1667? Giving him a better performance than Gonzaga "A"'s 1300? So unfair on Dublin in my opinion. And the Armstrong is a round robin league, so every team has to play Gonzaga A and Benildus, the point of the season you play them is irrelevant.

I agree with your first point but what time of the year you play certain teams is completely relevant. Certain teams are weaker or stronger at different times of the year.

Kilmokey

I have an idea can every team captain please submit to the League controller which round they will be submitting a weakened team so that the league fixtures can be done to accommodate Sodacat

Pete Morriss

cdeb wrote: »

Also, weren't the LCU fixtures done before Galway was scheduled? Should the LCU have foreseen what weekend Galway was going to be on? Or should they have dictated to Galway what weekend to select?

FYI the Galway Congress was scheduled last June.*mod snip* I don't know when the LCU arranged its fixtures, but if it wanted to avoid scheduling matches to clash it obviously could have done. It seems that the earlier statement that the LCU makes no attempt to avoid clashes with events outside Leinster, except Bunratty, is correct. Of course the LCU cannot "dictate" to Galway or anyone else - but it could attempt to liaise if it wanted to, which would benefit both other congresses and its own leagues.

sodacat11

Kilmokey wrote: »

I have an idea can every team captain please submit to the League controller which round they will be submitting a weakened team so that the league fixtures can be done to accommodate Sodacat

An excellent idea!! I would also appreciate it if Rathmines matches don't clash with Chelsea games and any major golf and horse racing events. If the new controller emails me I will provide a detailed list of unsuitable dates.

macelligott

R 10 Elm Mount 2.5- 5.5 Blanchardstown

Retd.LoyolaCpt

So Gonzaga A are officially champions and Dun Laoghaire are relegated. Too close to call who the other relegation team will be.

Gonzaga A 58
Gonzaga B 49.5
Benildus 45.5
Trinity 43.5
Kilkenny 42
Blanchardatown 38
Bray 37.5
Balbriggan 37
Elm Mount 35
Dublin 34
Rathmines 33.5
Dun Laoghaire 24.5

Most matches in the last round will be significant (apart from Gonzaga B vs Dun Laoghaire And Kilkenny Vs Blanch - although Blanch may rest a little easier once they’ve a point or two on the board).

Not to speculate too much but personally I’m excited to see what teams are turned out - would like to see David for Elm Mount, finally a full team from Rathmines (Haques and all) and Colm for Bray.

Balbriggan have averaged 1.2 points against Gonzaga over the past 5 years and have lost to the 3 teams behind them (somehow! - they’ve only lost 4 matches total) so go down on tiebreak if it comes to a tie for 10th and 11th.

In saying that, Rathmines will have a lot to do to get to that projected Balbriggan total of 38. They’ll need to beat a top 6 side for the first time this season; where their best score until now against a top 6 side is 2.5. However, they arguably have the strongest squad to choose from of the bottom 5 with Mel, 2 Haques, some Peter guy (never heard of him), Fiachra, and 3 others over 1800.

Dublin will have an unknown quantity in trinity who could turn out a team that drew with Gonzaga A or that has 2-3 subs because of exams/other commitments. Dublin have managed only 2 wins this season but 4 draws and another draw would be enough to get them to 38.

Lastly, Elm Mount take on their nemesis of the last round last year who beat them 4.5-3.5, Bray. Bray can technically strengthen on that team if both Colm and MDV play and they turn out a team similar to the one that played Gonzaga B. Elm Mount may be able to call on Dave to strengthen the top boards and they could do with their strongest team as Bray will likely have an 1800 on 8.

Hopefully those matches are all played on the last day as it would be fascinating to watch.

Tim Harding

I see you are assuming all registration points will be restored but it's still unexplained why Trinity are docked all their points despite the fact that no player on our Armstrong team is unregistered.

Dun Laoghaire nevertheless look like being in the Armstrong next season as they are 4 points clear in the Heidenfeld?
Rathmines would have an outside chance if they could win their last match heavily.

Something needs to be done about this registration issue next season. It's not right that it has brought unclarity to promotion/relegation issues with just one round to go.
Maybe it's impracticable to expect all players to pay up in the early season, though I always do, but a much earlier deadline needs to be enforced (say Christmas?) after which no restoration of points is allowed.

I have a double suggestion.
a) Let clubs have an option to pay membership fees to ICU in advance for, say, two (maybe even four) new players. These could be students, new adult players, seniors returning after a long break from chess or genuine visitors from abroad (as opposed to "hired guns" who should pay a double fee, incidentally).
These codes can then be assigned to last-minute subs or new arrivals as required, rather than chasing these (sometimes casual) players after the event for their money. I would think this should help college and school clubs especially.

2) Nobody should be allowed play an ICU-rated tournament of any kind (including blitz and rapid) without paying their ICU sub for the season. When they enter a tournament their status is checked and they are told they must pay before being included in the draw for round 2.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

You had several unpaid players at the time points were deducted (start of March). The LCU did as they’ve always done and deducted every point from matches where those players were involved. I’m sure they will be restored as they always are once a new rating file comes out or once the league controller checks again - it’s unrealistic to expect him to check who has and hasn’t paid every day. These players had 6-7 months to pay their fees - this has always been the way of ensuring they do or will in fairly short order.

Retd.LoyolaCpt

Also, Dun Laoghaire look highly unlikely to be promoted. A revised table has them in 4th with 4 teams with games in hand likely to overtake them. Malahide were favourites to win that league but have since started very poorly against Enniscorthy; any of 7 others can claim some varying degrees of promotion chances.

Curragh 45 10MP
Celebridge 43.5 10MP
Benildus 43 10MP
Dun Laoghaire 42 10MP
Ballinasloe, Phibsboro, Rathmines all on 41 9MP
Malahide 38 8MP
Bray 36.5 10MP
Elm Mount 31.5 9MP
Inchicore 31 9MP
Enniscorthy 20.5 9MP

cdeb

There is a strong argument that points deductions should apply in January instead of March alright. They could then be all cleared up by late Feb, giving no issues for the run-in in March.

As always, of course, it comes down to volunteers helping out rather than typing on the internet.

It does look like Rathmines up and down is quite likely alright

sodacat11

It is very clear to even the most obtuse that Rathmines are badly handicapped by having the same fixtures in the same order year after year as we always have to play Gonzaga "A" and Benildus in the last two rounds and those two teams always have close to their strongest line ups because they are always in contention for medals and because their players do not have to travel too far to the venues. The teams who get the middle ranked teams who have nothing left to play for or the teams whose players have to travel long distances get a MUCH easier ride. One just has tolook at the Six Nations rugby or any other league that I can think of to see that the order of fixtures is changed every year. This can easily be done while alternating the home/away situation between clubs but even if it didn't would a completely open fixture draw every season be such a bad thing once clubs still got five home and five away matches?

Ciaran

sodacat11 wrote: »

This can easily be done while alternating the home/away situation between clubs but even if it didn't would a completely open fixture draw every season be such a bad thing once clubs still got five home and five away matches?

It should be a simple matter to do an open draw every second year and reverse the home and away the next year. It wouldn't be long before someone was complaining about being away to Kilkenny three years in a row with a fully open draw every year!

sodacat11

Ciaran wrote: »

It should be a simple matter to do an open draw every second year and reverse the home and away the next year. It wouldn't be long before someone was complaining about being away to Kilkenny three years in a row with a fully open draw every year!

Yes, that would be a perfect solution!