Gallagher Premiership 2018/2019

troyzer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

You just said that the teams aren't owned. They are in baseball.

Maybe worth looking into that a little bit more

Looking into what?

irishbucsfan

troyzer wrote: »

Looking into what?

Minor league baseball teams are mostly independent of their major league affiliates.

There'd be 0 added benefit of a Premiership club buying a Championship or National League club and it'd probably work out very poorly for the lower leagues. There's 0% chance of that happening anyway.

Players can and do already move freely back and forward between academies and the lower league clubs. Tom Varndell is dual-registered to the Tigers and Nottingham for example and is starting for Nottingham this weekend instead of Leicester.

troyzer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Looking into what?

Minor league baseball teams are mostly independent of their major league affiliates.

There'd be 0 added benefit of a Premiership club buying a Championship or National League club and it'd probably work out very poorly for the lower leagues. There's 0% chance of that happening anyway.

Players can and do already move freely back and forward between academies and the lower league clubs. Tom Varndell is dual-registered to the Tigers and Nottingham for example and is starting for Nottingham this weekend instead of Leicester.

Maybe it's just the odd one that's owned by the Major league team. I know Pawtucket is owned by the Red Sox ownership group though not by the Red Sox themselves.

If what you're saying is true, why isn't it being used as a development pathway more often? They should be able to produce far more talented academy prospects if they have such a massive outlay for game time.

irishbucsfan

troyzer wrote: »

Maybe it's just the odd one that's owned by the Major league team. I know Pawtucket is owned by the Red Sox ownership group though not by the Red Sox themselves.

If what you're saying is true, why isn't it being used as a development pathway more often? They should be able to produce far more talented academy prospects if they have such a massive outlay for game time.

How much is it used? This kind of statement is completely baseless For all you know it's used constantly, you didn't even know the pathway existed and now you're assuming it's not used enough. It is used.

Maybe player development is actually more difficult than you're giving it credit? Maybe it's not just as simple as giving guys game-time at what is effectively AIL 1A standard.

troyzer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Maybe it's just the odd one that's owned by the Major league team. I know Pawtucket is owned by the Red Sox ownership group though not by the Red Sox themselves.

If what you're saying is true, why isn't it being used as a development pathway more often? They should be able to produce far more talented academy prospects if they have such a massive outlay for game time.

How much is it used? This kind of statement is completely baseless For all you know it's used constantly, you didn't even know the pathway existed and now you're assuming it's not used enough. It is used.

Maybe player development is actually more difficult than you're giving it credit? Maybe it's not just as simple as giving guys game-time at what is effectively AIL 1A standard.

Well I'm assuming it's not being used properly if the entire population of England struggled to produce a single test level openside for years.

It's a bit harsh saying that Championship rugby I AIL standard. It's a bit better than that.

But you're right, something isn't adding up.

irishbucsfan

troyzer wrote: »

Well I'm assuming it's not being used properly if the entire population of England struggled to produce a single test level openside for years.

It's a bit harsh saying that Championship rugby I AIL standard. It's a bit better than that.

But you're right, something isn't adding up.

I think you're vastly overrating the Championship there. There's 2 or 3 good professional sides in it most years, the rest would be at the standard of a 1A side in my experience. Unless the standard has come on considerably since I left (and by all accounts the opposite has happened if anything).

troyzer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Well I'm assuming it's not being used properly if the entire population of England struggled to produce a single test level openside for years.

It's a bit harsh saying that Championship rugby I AIL standard. It's a bit better than that.

But you're right, something isn't adding up.

I think you're vastly overrating the Championship there. There's 2 or 3 good professional sides in it most years, the rest would be at the standard of a 1A side in my experience. Unless the standard has come on considerably since I left (and by all accounts the opposite has happened if anything).

I'll have to defer to you on that one. I don't watch Championship rugby. There are obviously a few good teams in there but if the quality drops off rapidly after that as you say then fair enough.

I know the wages are averaging something like £20k a year.

Burkie1203

Wasps losing Hughes. Daly to Sarries still a runner or did he sign a new contract?

https://twitter.com/alexshawsport/status/1085129904813940737?s=19

Burkie1203

Another Player leaving Wasps

https://twitter.com/TimesSport/status/1085226551397048326?s=19

Squidgy Black

Wasps signed Fekitoa from Toulon. I'm guessing he's Daly's replacement.

Buer

I'm surprised. Comments in the past year suggested he was considering returning to NZ but I suppose money talks. With that said, I don't know where Wasps are getting it given their rumoured financial issues which are only going to get worse. They've gambled hugely with their plans over the last 2 years and they've failed miserably.

Whilst Daly has been a key player for them and they've developed him and been rewarded by him, I think it's time for him to move on. He hasn't looked as good this season as he has previously and he has been a bit of a d*ck on the field. Aside from the antics against Leinster when he shoved one of his own players under the posts, I've seen him mouthing off at team mates on several other occasions. He's obviously not happy where he is. If he wants to realise his full potential, he needs to move.

If Fekitoa wanted to realise his full potential, he should have gone back to NZ but the lure of cash is too strong in fairness. It's a brief career and if he can get paid, he should do so.

Squidgy Black

Buer wrote: »

I'm surprised. Comments in the past year suggested he was considering returning to NZ but I suppose money talks. With that said, I don't know where Wasps are getting it given their rumoured financial issues which are only going to get worse. They've gambled hugely with their plans over the last 2 years and they've failed miserably.

Whilst Daly has been a key player for them and they've developed him and been rewarded by him, I think it's time for him to move on. He hasn't looked as good this season as he has previously and he has been a bit of a d*ck on the field. Aside from the antics against Leinster when he shoved one of his own players under the posts, I've seen him mouthing off at team mates on several other occasions. He's obviously not happy where he is. If he wants to realise his full potential, he needs to move.

If Fekitoa wanted to realise his full potential, he should have gone back to NZ but the lure of cash is too strong in fairness. It's a brief career and if he can get paid, he should do so.

The money freed up from Hughes/Le Roux and Wade departing, as well as Daly when he does, I'm guessing.

It'd be hard for Fekitoa to turn down the kind of silly money Wasps will have thrown at him, considering he's already in Europe, two years in Coventry for what you can only imagine would be close enough to 7 figures a year.

Wasps have a choice here, they can either try and promote from within and use younger squad players and struggle a little for the next year or two, or splash out even further to replace the big name players who have left. And I think we all know which way they'll go.

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The money freed up from Hughes/Le Roux and Wade departing, as well as Daly when he does, I'm guessing.

It'd be hard for Fekitoa to turn down the kind of silly money Wasps will have thrown at him, considering he's already in Europe, two years in Coventry for what you can only imagine would be close enough to 7 figures a year.

Wasps have a choice here, they can either try and promote from within and use younger squad players and struggle a little for the next year or two, or splash out even further to replace the big name players who have left. And I think we all know which way they'll go.

Seven figures? Really?

See this is the real issue when talking about the Premiership model vs the Pro14.

What exactly is Fekitoa going to make in Wasps and what is his equivalent in a player like Chris Farrell making in Munster?

molloyjh

Squidgy Black wrote: »

The money freed up from Hughes/Le Roux and Wade departing, as well as Daly when he does, I'm guessing.

It'd be hard for Fekitoa to turn down the kind of silly money Wasps will have thrown at him, considering he's already in Europe, two years in Coventry for what you can only imagine would be close enough to 7 figures a year.

Wasps have a choice here, they can either try and promote from within and use younger squad players and struggle a little for the next year or two, or splash out even further to replace the big name players who have left. And I think we all know which way they'll go.

They kind of have to. There’s an element of being all in at this stage. They can’t just go cold turkey, as it were, off the imports. The best they can do is ween themselves off them. Slowly but surely build up the young lads coming through. We’ve all seen what has happened to Toulon, and they still have a few big names there.

Squidgy Black

troyzer wrote: »

Seven figures? Really?

See this is the real issue when talking about the Premiership model vs the Pro14.

What exactly is Fekitoa going to make in Wasps and what is his equivalent in a player like Chris Farrell making in Munster?

His Toulon salary was reported to be around $700k, now the 7 figures is probably a complete exaggeration but I'd be amazed if it was under £500k. Considering Piutau was reported to be on £1m per year.

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

His Toulon salary was reported to be around $700k, now the 7 figures is probably a complete exaggeration but I'd be amazed if it was under £500k. Considering Piutau was reported to be on £1m per year.

And what would a player like Farrell be on? I think that's a relatively fair comparison, maybe I'm wrong?

Squidgy Black

molloyjh wrote: »

They kind of have to. There’s an element of being all in at this stage. They can’t just go cold turkey, as it were, off the imports. The best they can do is ween themselves off them. Slowly but surely build up the young lads coming through. We’ve all seen what has happened to Toulon, and they still have a few big names there.

Yeah I know, but I'm thinking more that they'll just open up the check book and replace like for like at this stage, and just dig the hole deeper.

Squidgy Black

troyzer wrote: »

And what would a player like Farrell be on? I think that's a relatively fair comparison, maybe I'm wrong?

I've absolutely no idea to be honest, provincial salaries are impossible to even guess unless you're in the know. Central contracts are where the big bucks are, I've heard a figure thrown around that €400k is the max a provincial contract could go to before it goes central, for Irish players anyways but that could be wrong.

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I've absolutely no idea to be honest, provincial salaries are impossible to even guess unless you're in the know. Central contracts are where the big bucks are, I've heard a figure thrown around that €400k is the max a provincial contract could go to before it goes central, for Irish players anyways but that could be wrong.

Is that only for project players? Certainly the likes of Dai Young and many of the other whingers in English rugby seem to have a remarkable insight into Irish salaries.

They all claim that Leinster are spending more than the Premiership salary cap. Do we have any idea if it's true? Do they have any reason to think it?

Squidgy Black

troyzer wrote: »

Is that only for project players? Certainly the likes of Dai Young and many of the other whingers in English rugby seem to have a remarkable insight into Irish salaries.

They all claim that Leinster are spending more than the Premiership salary cap. Do we have any idea if it's true? Do they have any reason to think it?

They'd probably know from speaking to various agents etc. We probably are spending more than the salary cap, or close to it when you include central contracts. But we also don't have cap exemptions, and stuff like the homegrown senior player credits and international player credits etc.

Dubinusa

But Wasps are very top heavy. They pay big salaries to the stars and when there's injuries they're fcuked.
They don't promote or produce top level players.
Launchbury and Daly are the only 2 I can think of these past few years.
They are similar to Toulon in a way.

Burkie1203

Exeter making big announcement at 10pm on Sunday night

https://twitter.com/ExeterChiefs/status/1087092489364885504?s=19

Squidgy Black

If I had to guess I'd say new flyhalf.

Could be completely off the mark though.

sydthebeat

Just three of their lads signing on for another two years.....

Burkie1203

sydthebeat wrote: »

Just three of their lads signing on for another two years.....

Howell Slate Cowan-Dickie

troyzer

I don't know if this was in the rumour mill already but apparently Launchbury is close to signing a deal with Sale.

So as it stands; Wasps will be losing Le Roux, Hughes, Launchbury and almost certainly Daly.

Madness.

AdamD

It seems a bit ridiculous to moan about salary caps when your clubs are losing money

troyzer

troyzer wrote: »

I don't know if this was in the rumour mill already but apparently Launchbury is close to signing a deal with Sale.

So as it stands; Wasps will be losing Le Roux, Hughes, Launchbury and almost certainly Daly.

Madness.

It's the pro14's fault.

Clegg

Also remember that Christian Wade quit rugby earlier this season and Cipriani left Wasps for Gloucester in the summer. If Daly leaves they'll have lost their most creative and lethal backs in the space of 12 months. If Launchbury joins Hughes in leaving, the heart of their pack is ripped out as well.

Have to ask wtf is going on behind the scenes. Their best players are all leaving.

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

Also remember that Christian Wade quit rugby earlier this season and Cipriani left Wasps for Gloucester in the summer. If Daly leaves they'll have lost their most creative and lethal backs in the space of 12 months. If Launchbury joins Hughes in leaving, the heart of their pack is ripped out as well.

Have to ask wtf is going on behind the scenes. Their best players are all leaving.

They look like a team potentially 18 months away from Championship rugby.