Road or lane?

fancy pigeon

Seeing as these types of thread are trending, lets add to the cauldron and see the responses...

Below we have a scenario that is regular. Personally, I don't see a problem, even if the road/lane is free.

However, that's just me. What do you think should be used here: lane or road?



question.png

Greentree_uk

As a cyclist I'd say lane, but depends on the other end. sometimes they don't end as they should, back on the road. and sometimes they have stupid obstacles to overcome, bus stops, people. Cyclist of course can use either they choose.

loyatemu

are you asking should the cyclist be in the cycle lane? Maybe but he's not obliged to be - the lane in the picture looks ok but I can't see what it's like further up the road. So many of them are sub-standard, or lose priority at driveways and junctions that cyclists just don't use them by default.

ELM327

Should be in the office, working harder to afford the rest of the car. :pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

/thread

amcalester

I'd use the lane the first time, but if it ends suddenly or takes me where I don't want to go I'd stick to the road the next time.

DaveyDave

Personally I'd use the lane as be curb has protection from people cutting into the lane as they frequently do, but he doesn't NEED to be anywhere. He's free to use whichever lane he chooses.

fancy pigeon

loyatemu wrote: »

are you asking should the cyclist be in the cycle lane? Maybe but he's not obliged to be - the lane in the picture looks ok but I can't see what it's like further up the road. So many of them are sub-standard, or lose priority at driveways and junctions that cyclists just don't use them by default.

Well... Asking everyone else and seeing what they think

I don't see a problem using either, whichever is safer for the rider, be it the lane or the road if the adjacent lane provided is comically narrow/obstructed/dangerously close to traffic etc (I'm not sure if there is something wrong with the lane above but I wouldn't know, not for me to make an opinion)

amcalester

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Well... Asking everyone else and seeing what they think

The recent threads were about the legalities of certain maneuvers, roundabouts and merging, this is asking opinion based on where posters would prefer the cyclist to be.

It's just going to turn into a ****show.

FWIW legally the cyclist can use either the road of the lane.

Alanstrainor

Any links to a map location?

Hurrache

Anything he wants to use, it's his personal choice.

Alanstrainor

This it?

https://goo.gl/maps/eEPekMBdndt

Pretty sure it is. Although google maps is behind. I'd guess that cycle lane lasts about 100M before disappearing again. But not too sure.

colm_mcm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Any links to a map location?

Junction of R157 and R148, Maynooth, Carton Wood.
Still being built on google Maps so no bus lane


Edit, you found it yourself!

Alanstrainor

colm_mcm wrote: »

Junction of R157 and R148, Maynooth, Carton Wood.
Still being built on google Maps so no bus lane


Edit, you found it yourself!

I'm good at these games! Haven't even been in Maynooth for years.

colm_mcm

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I'm good at these games! Haven't even been in Maynooth for years.

Neither have I, I used to live just down the road from there (15 years ago I guess)

seamus

If I was unfamiliar with the road/lane, I'd use the road. You never know when a cycle lane is going to suddenly end and drop you in a compromising position. This lane looks decent from the front, but that's never a guarantee it'll stay so.

So he should be wherever he feels the most comfortable.

John_Rambo

As a cyclist I'd tentively use the cycle lane first time using it. I'd keep using it if it was good. If it was crap I'd use the road.

As a motorist I'd respect the cyclists decision and travel behind until it's safe to overtake.

(*I use all the cycle lanes on my commute except for one 25 metre stretch that's a joke)

Interslice

As a cyclist I think they should put tolls on cycle lanes to pay for their upkeep and more cycle lanes in the area. Its not fair on the ordinary tax payer to have to fund it.

colm_mcm

Interslice wrote: »

As a cyclist I think they should put tolls on cycle lanes to pay for their upkeep and more cycle lanes in the area. Its not fair on the ordinary tax payer to have to fund it.

What about footpaths? Should we toll those too?

jjpep

Interslice wrote: »

As a cyclist I think they should put tolls on cycle lanes to pay for their upkeep and more cycle lanes in the area. Its not fair on the ordinary tax payer to have to fund it.

As someone who breaths air I think they should put a toll on anyone using equipment or machinery who pollutes this air.

jjpep

Like some other posters, if it was my first time in an area I would try the cycle lane. If it was not up to par, next time I would use the road.

07Lapierre

Once on the cycle lane..the cyclists will loose right of way at every side road along the cycle lane, so no...use the road every time.

Idleater

07Lapierre wrote: »

Once on the cycle lane..the cyclists will loose right of way at every side road along the cycle lane.

About 150m up the road in this case if the op would "roll it on there Bill", at 90 degrees too iirc.

ted1

Interslice wrote: »

As a cyclist I think they should put tolls on cycle lanes to pay for their upkeep and more cycle lanes in the area. Its not fair on the ordinary tax payer to have to fund it.

Have you heard of general taxation? What about taxing pedestrians for footpaths ?
Cycle lanes reduce costs to the state.
Cheaper than roads , less traffic less congestion less lost time, less emission fines, less cost to emergency services, less money leaving the state ( only a fraction of the price of a new car status in Ireland)


Anyway it’s hard to tell from the snapshot. There may be issues with the bike lane up ahead . Such issues
1. It just ends
2. Cars park in it
3. It losses priority at junctions
4. It’s in poor condition
5. Constantly broken glass
6. Cyclist may be turning right up ahead.
7. People generally walk or push pranks in it.
8. Many other reasons

John_Rambo

Interslice wrote: »

As a cyclist I think they should put tolls on cycle lanes to pay for their upkeep and more cycle lanes in the area. Its not fair on the ordinary tax payer to have to fund it.

That would be a disaster for us motorists, if cyclists have to pay for cycle paths motorists will have to start paying for roads to square things up.

And roads are a lot more expensive to build and maintain than cycle paths.

So, unless you want an additional (and much more expensive) road tax on top of your motor tax I’d keep your mouth closed! Careful what you wish for.

whomitconcerns

07Lapierre wrote: »

Once on the cycle lane..the cyclists will loose right of way at every side road along the cycle lane, so no...use the road every time.

Why would that happen? AFAIK the cycle lane is a road lane so you would maintain ROW..not a footpath lane..Or am I wrong?

Páid

The RSA are of the opinion that the cyclist should be in the cycle lane at all times. This is not correct and is at odds with S.I. 332 of 2012 which made the use of contraflow cycle tracks and any cycle track in pedestrianised area mandatory but all others optional.

This is the Statutory Instrument - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print

It doesn't help that they continue to publish incorrect information in the Rules of the Road. I have emailed them about it numerous times and they refuse to change it.

More about it here - http://irishcycle.com/2016/07/22/rules-of-the-road-change-on-cycle-lanes-based-on-advice-from-department-of-transport-says-rsa/

seamus

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Why would that happen? AFAIK the cycle lane is a road lane so you would maintain ROW..not a footpath lane..Or am I wrong?

In most cases the cycle lane will just "end" at a side road nad/or show a yield sign for the cyclist.

In the very rare cases where someone has had actually bothered to follow best practice, the cycle lane will come down to the same level as the road and maintain right of way through junctions.

However, in practice, vehicles are still very poor at respecting this ROW.

Since it's impossible for a cyclist to know whether a cycle lane is the "good" or "bad" kind before using it, they're better off not using it until they're familiar with it.

Idleater

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Why would that happen? AFAIK the cycle lane is a road lane so you would maintain ROW..not a footpath lane..Or am I wrong?

You would maintain ROW in a country where cycle lanes are mandatory and as a result infrastructure is thought out, planned and built correctly- for example the Netherlands. However here as "cycling" (but also wheelchair and mobility scooter) lanes are ill thought out in general, non mandatory and an afterthought so careless design and inappropriate layout follows.

In this case, and again, I'm hoping the OP can oblige with the video footage, the cycling lane ends with a Yield sign.

This is something that many "I pay road tax" "use the cycling lane provided" miss, if you want to send cyclists, wheelchair users, mobility scooters off "your" tarmac, fine, campaign for something like the Netherlands, with 1 car lane, 2 bus lanes, 1 cycling lane and a footpad path. Think about it, that's what you're asking taxes to pay for.

If not, then just use your 100 horsepower to overtake safely.

07Lapierre

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Why would that happen? AFAIK the cycle lane is a road lane so you would maintain ROW..not a footpath lane..Or am I wrong?

Why? because they are badly designed. They are designed to keep cyclists off the road. they are not designed to make cycling easier/more efficient. A lot of them end like this: https://goo.gl/maps/CZzdhSuT7y32

legally, the cyclist would have to stop, check left/right for traffic, then cross the road. Note how cars turning left would be behind the cyclist? so a quick glance over your right shoulder is not enough..the cyclist would have to come to an almost complete stop to confirm that no cars were turning.

Here's a few examples of cycle lanes and why they are not used..
http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes/

ted1

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Why would that happen? AFAIK the cycle lane is a road lane so you would maintain ROW..not a footpath lane..Or am I wrong?

Yes you are wrong

See example : https://goo.gl/images/NZVGbZ

Or in the link below on the side going into town where the cyclists is diverted in to an estate , losing priority. I’d regular be doing 40kmh on that stretch of road in the bus lane. Following the cycle path I’d be down to about 10kmh

https://goo.gl/maps/7fkF9R982Lq

ELM327

Páid wrote: »

The RSA are of the opinion that the cyclist should be in the cycle lane at all times. This is not correct and is at odds with S.I. 332 of 2012 which made the use of contraflow cycle tracks and any cycle track in pedestrianised area mandatory but all others optional.

This is the Statutory Instrument - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2012/si/332/made/en/print

It doesn't help that they continue to publish incorrect information in the Rules of the Road. I have emailed them about it numerous times and they refuse to change it.

More about it here - http://irishcycle.com/2016/07/22/rules-of-the-road-change-on-cycle-lanes-based-on-advice-from-department-of-transport-says-rsa/

If you are referring to section 11 of the SI you linked, it doesnt seem to refer to cycle lanes afaik
It refers to no cycle zones as per RUS055 http://trafficsigns.ie/rus-055/



Prohibition on pedal cycles


11. (1) Where traffic sign number RUS 055 (no pedal cycles) is provided, a person driving a pedal cycle shall not proceed beyond the sign.


(2) It is not required to apply this Regulation on a public road where section 43 of the Act of 1993 or regulations made under subsection (3) of that section apply or where articles 13 (driving on footway), 16 (median strip) or 45 (pedestrianised streets) of the Principal Regulations apply.

Páid

Read the explanatory note at the bottom of the S.I.

I'm not a lawyer and I would not pretend to be able to interpret law but it was widely believed that the mandatory use of cycle lanes was abolished by that S.I. The RSA and the Dept. of Transport now believe it wasn't.

Further info here on the "misinterpretation" - http://irishcycle.com/2016/07/12/cycle-track-mandatory-use-law-a-misinterpretation-say-campaigners/

It's a complete dog's dinner of a situation - there seems to be no legal certainty whether cycle lanes are mandatory or not.

Spook_ie

Greentree_uk wrote: »

As a cyclist I'd say lane, but depends on the other end. sometimes they don't end as they should, back on the road. and sometimes they have stupid obstacles to overcome, bus stops, people. Cyclist of course can use either they choose.

+1 on this, however if all things were equal then seeing as there is a solid white line and a bend coming up it would be nice if the cyclist had the foresight to move onto the cycle lane and allow following traffic the opportunity to pass.

07Lapierre

Spook_ie wrote: »

+1 on this, however if all things were equal then seeing as there is a solid white line and a bend coming up it would be nice if the cyclist had the foresight to move onto the cycle lane and allow following traffic the opportunity to pass.

All things are never equal.

Thatnastyboy

As a horse whisperer on a bike I'd say the lane, but that would depend on how long it is and the condition of it, knowing that I could use the road if i fancied it.

I would also, where possible - get as far away from regular motorists as possible as many of them seem to see bicycles as targets for their rage & would like to injure them.

As a horse whisperer in a car, I couldn't give a feck where a cyclist goes or doesn't, its just the same as overtaking a tractor for me, go back to 2nd, build some boost and go around the slower road user at full pelt, it brightens up the otherwise boring commute tbh.

DavyD_83

As everybody else has said, it's all about how/where the path ends as to whether it is one I would use or not.

Its' in decent condition at least from what we can see.
But a lot of the newer ones in particular I find spit you out on a footpath, or joining a junction from a weird angle.
Roads almost always connect to other roads, so have less uncertainty.

ted1

Spook_ie wrote: »

+1 on this, however if all things were equal then seeing as there is a solid white line and a bend coming up it would be nice if the cyclist had the foresight to move onto the cycle lane and allow following traffic the opportunity to pass.

The cyclists is traffic.

Spook_ie

ted1 wrote: »

The cyclists is traffic.

Did I say he wasn't?

Spook_ie

OSI wrote: »

That lane ends about 100m up the road at a pretty busy T-Junction. Literally just ends. If you were in the lane you'd have to stop and merge into fast moving traffic.

The images that you are showing don't show the cycle lane at all because it wasn't built in 2017 how can you justify saying what it does/doesn't do from an old image?

Just for reference here is a shot from almost the same position as the OP

Spook_ie

OSI wrote: »

Because I pass through or drive into Maynooth at least 6 days a week.

So post a recent pic rather than a google image that doesn't bare any relevance to the present layout at all, as can be seen from the OP picture the cyclist doesn't seem to be losing priority at the junction he just passed, does he lose priority at the next junction, I don't know but your link doesn't give any clue.

Spook_ie

OSI wrote: »

Apologies Spook_ie. I'll take the 140 round trip from work to Maynooth in the middle of my working day to take an up to date picture of a junction that hasn't changed in order to satiate your need for up to the minute information.

Apology accepted, even if it wasn't really offered, but you don't need to be doing that, just get a dash cam and grab an image, or even ask the OP if he can grab an image off the same clip

Alanstrainor

Spook_ie wrote: »

So post a recent pic rather than a google image that doesn't bare any relevance to the present layout at all, as can be seen from the OP picture the cyclist doesn't seem to be losing priority at the junction he just passed, does he lose priority at the next junction, I don't know but your link doesn't give any clue.

Ah come on. How would OSI just have a picture of this random junction to hand. He explained what happens there since he knows it well.

Given what people have said I would use the road. These short cycle tracks that appear and disappear randomly don't work. There's actually loads just like this where I live that are much older. I've never seen a cyclist in them.

Spook_ie

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Ah come on. How would OSI just have a picture of this random junction to hand. He explained what happens there since he knows it well.

<snipped>

In that case he shouldn't have pasted a screen grab of the junction, you can see the difference between the OP's post and Google's image, Google's doesn't even show the new traffic lights or the fact that the footpath was moved 4-5 feet to left to accommodate the cycle lane, I don't know what they did at the next junction but it's disingenuous to post an old picture of an area undergoing change and say that it spits you out without some backup. If he hadn't posted the image I wouldn't be arguing.

TheShow

As a cyclist I rarely, if ever use cycle lanes. They are not fit for purpose, normally pedestrians in them and other slow moving traffic.
If you're moving along at pace, then the lane is just a hazard really.

DaveyDave

Is it so hard to imagine a bike lane in the Google Maps image? We have a reference of before and after at the beginning, it's not hard to envision a lane at the end of the road. Ireland has a history of bike lanes ending into a bus stop or throwing people back into a lane of traffic.

It's not really worth bickering over.

MugMugs

TheShow wrote: »

As a cyclist I rarely, if ever use cycle lanes. They are not fit for purpose, normally pedestrians in them and other slow moving traffic.
If you're moving along at pace, then the lane is just a hazard really.

As well as debris.

By their very nature they attract all sorts of rubbish.

When you're running tyres at 120psi and 23mm width, having a blow out is going to hurt. I actively avoid cycle lanes.

Spook_ie

DaveyDave wrote: »

Is it so hard to imagine a bike lane in the Google Maps image? We have a reference of before and after at the beginning, it's not hard to envision a lane at the end of the road. Ireland has a history of bike lanes ending into a bus stop or throwing people back into a lane of traffic.

It's not really worth bickering over.

It's difficult to imagine what a junction might look like now compared to a year ago, just look at the difference between OP and Google, my point is that for all anyone knew the footpath that OSI showed could have been upgraded like the OP's junction.

ELM327

It's almost like a reverse world. We have a cycle lane which is not used by those cycling. They prefer to cycle on the road and be surrounded by vehicles and motorists.
What's next, a computer that doesn't compute? :P

Wishbone Ash

ELM327 wrote: »

... They prefer to cycle on the road and be surrounded by vehicles and motorists....

Yes, as it's much safer.

Cycle tracks are designed by motorists - hence the reason they don't work and are rarely used.

coolbeans

colm_mcm wrote: »

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I'm good at these games! Haven't even been in Maynooth for years.

Neither have I, I used to live just down the road from there (15 years ago I guess)

So did I. We probably know each other's faces. 😊

Thatnastyboy

I would have thought they would hire a civil engineer, planner, or infrastructure engineer to design roads and cycle paths.

Getting random motorists to do it is bound to fail..