Asked to resign - See post 1 and 77 for update regarding OP

Candyshell

My manager will be asking me to resign in a couple weeks as he doesn't believe I'm suitable for the role. He's happy for me not to resign right now as a few members of the teams recently handed in their notice so the team is stretched. He does say though that he wants a final date when I'll be gone, HR have pushed him to get this date as he discussed the situation with them.

I'd just be curious to hear asome advice in this situation I find myself in. I'm currently looking for another job as I want to leave but have no intention of handing in my notice without an offer in my hand.

Post #77

Nody wrote:

Mod:
Dear all while you have all been helpful I'm sorry to say OP is a renown serial re-reg troll trying to stir the pot. As I think the thread in general has contained quite a bit of good advice I'm not going to lock it but be advised OP made the whole thing up for **** stirring purposes only.

AndrewJRenko

How long have you been in the job? Have you been given any kind of Performance Improvement Plan to bring your work up to the required level?

Candyshell

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How long have you been in the job? Have you been given any kind of Performance Improvement Plan to bring your work up to the required level?

Here exactly 1 year and 1 day. No performance improvement plan.

Doop

One downside to resigning v's being let go is you wont be entitled to social welfare for a period (might be 6 weeks(?). Also flip side to that is some employers will ask why you left your last job...

Sounds a bit loke they are trying to make it easy on themselves by getting you to resign...do you want to resign?

What part of the country are you in, is there many jobs going where you are?

Candyshell

Doop wrote: »

One downside to resigning v's being let go is you wont be entitled to social welfare for a period (might be 6 weeks(?). Also flip side to that is some employers will ask why you left your last job...

Sounds a bit loke they are trying to make it easy on themselves by getting you to resign...do you want to resign?

What part of the country are you in, is there many jobs going where you are?

In Dublin, work in IFSC. Just missed out on a job offer yesterday narrowly. Want to go now at this stage, don't want to be somewhere I'm not wanted.

Tefral

Candyshell wrote: »

Hear exactly 1 year and 1 day. No performance improvement plan.

Constructive Dismissal kicks in after 12 months. You could drag the arse out of this if they don't follow due procedure.

Bit rich out of them though, you're good enough to do the job when the team is stretched.

Are you measured against any performance matrices or targets? How have they determined you're not fit for the role?

Candyshell

Candyshell wrote: »

............. have no intention of handing in my notice without an offer in my hand.

Just do nothing until you have a new job.
If he really wants/needs you gone and they can't go the redundancy route than there's not much they can do, legitimately.

Zubeneschamali

Candyshell wrote: »

don't want to be somewhere I'm not wanted.

That would be it for me - don't dwell on it, find another job.

Candyshell

Tefral wrote: »

Constructive Dismissal kicks in after 12 months. You could drag the arse out of this if they don't follow due procedure.

Bit rich out of them though, you're good enough to do the job when the team is stretched.

Are you measured against any performance matrices or targets? How have they determined you're not fit for the role?

It's just basically my manager's opinion, don't think there is anything objective to base it on. He did ask me to raise my percentage figure contributed for a particular task to 50%, which I hit the last two months in a row. Given I'm a manger I think it was a bit of an odd and arbitrary target to give me. But I made sure I hit it.

gozunda

There was a similar thread here few weeks ago - it may be helpful ...

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057899789/1/

Tbh I suspect this is the new 'advice' some companies are receiving on how to handle letting employees go. There's one bunch quite infamous for this kind of stupid thinking ...

Larbre34

Your employment can be terminated in several ways.

You can be made redundant for reasons with a business case. You can be dismissed, after due process, for misconduct either personal or professional. Or, you can be subject to a contracted period of probation at the beginning of your employment, after which the employer can end your employment for being unsuitable for the role, once your performance indications were clearly set out to begin with and are held to be fair, realistic and achievable.

If none of these boxes are ticked in your case, you cannot simply be invited to resign. If you do intend do seek another post, make clear you will not be leaving until you do. If you are threatened with a difficult environment or damaging reference, talk to the Union if one is in place (I'm guessing not) or consult a solicitor.

You are entitled, by law, to fair procedure.

helimachoptor

ask for a pay off as you are there longer than a year.

As said above, if they try and short cut the process they'll end up messing it up and leaving themselves exposed to legal proceedings.

Candyshell

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That would be it for me - don't dwell on it, find another job.

Yes I know, would it be realistic to ask for a severance package in order for me to resign, does this happen much? For the right money I'd resign now.

helimachoptor

Candyshell wrote: »

Yes I know, would it be realistic to ask for a severance package in order for me to resign, does this happen much? For the right money I'd resign now.

they are asking you to leave but stay on til it suits them.
I'd be asking for a package, but with a subtle hint of "you havent bothered your asses to have a proper process, so make it easy for me to leave"

GreeBo

If I was asked to resign and I didnt want to I would say "No thank you".

Now you can use the time while they try to manage you out to find a new job and get paid for the privilege, certainly dont resign without a golden parachute or a new job lined up.

Candyshell

GreeBo wrote: »

If I was asked to resign and I didnt want to I would say "No thank you".

Now you can use the time while they try to manage you out to find a new job and get paid for the privilege, certainly dont resign without a golden parachute or a new job lined up.

What's a realistic amount to ask for, 6 months salary?

JeffKenna

Candyshell wrote: »

What's a realistic amount to ask for, 6 months salary?

€100,000

Diziet

Definitely ask for an incentive. You want to pitch it to a reasonable level that makes it worthwhile for you and possible for them. Something like 'I need 3 months garden leave to find myself another job' is reasonable, IMO.
Yes, you are entitled to due process and what they are doing is definitely not due process.

helimachoptor

Candyshell wrote: »

What's a realistic amount to ask for, 6 months salary?

what's your notice period? but i'd say 2/3 months

you are helping them by staying on
They haven't followed process and could make life difficult

Candyshell

helimachoptor wrote: »

what's your notice period? but i'd say 2/3 months

you are helping them by staying on
They haven't followed process and could make life difficult

My notice period is two months.

helimachoptor

Candyshell wrote: »

My notice period is two months.

I'd ask for that, citing the helping them out factor.
If they decline then i'd tell them if they want you gone they should follow their formal processes, which will take a few months while you sit on your ass and job hunt.

Larbre34

Candyshell wrote: »

My notice period is two months.

Thats ridiculously long for 12 months in a job. Its also ridiculously long for a business that seems to regard people as summarily disposable.

That said, and while I stand by everything I said above, and given the fact you've said you no longer want to be there, I think the best out would be to set aside the notice period and have them pay you for the two months, giving you paid time to secure a new job. In fact, start by asking for 3.

lawred2

Candyshell wrote: »

My manager will be asking me to resign in a couple weeks as he doesn't believe I'm suitable for the role. He's happy for me not to resign right now as a few members of the teams recently handed in their notice so the team is stretched. He does say though that he wants a final date when I'll be gone, HR have pushed him to get this date as he discussed the situation with them.

I'd just be curious to hear asome advice in this situation I find myself in. I'm currently looking for another job as I want to leave but have no intention of handing in my notice without an offer in my hand.

ask for a payoff

three months salary

drunkmonkey

lawred2 wrote: »

ask for a payoff

three months salary

A written reference and time off to go for interviews over the next few weeks might go down better.

ebbsy

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A written reference and time off to go for interviews over the next few weeks might go down better.

Plus the cash.

lawred2

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A written reference and time off to go for interviews over the next few weeks might go down better.

I would have thought that was a given

Larbre34

lawred2 wrote: »

I would have thought that was a given

Not the way they've conducted themselves so far.

lawred2

Larbre34 wrote: »

Not the way they've conducted themselves so far.

I meant when asking for the payoff - that a written reference was part of the exit arrangement

bucketybuck

Don't dismiss the fact that sitting on your ass doing nothing is a good way to give them the ammo to dismiss you with cause. I'm not saying you need to bust your ass for them, but make sure you are at least meeting your obligations.

Beyond that, do you want to be the toxic employee that is only there because HR have to follow procedure, that everyone knows about and who might get a reputation on the back of it? In the financial sector?

I would think carefully about that, is it really worth it?

Speak to your boss straight, say that you know the procedures involved and that you have no intention of resigning, but that you might listen to a good offer. Then go off and do your job to the minimum expectation.

AlmightyCushion

I wouldn't ask them for a set number right off the bat, I'd just ask them what's in it for you.

GreeBo

bucketybuck wrote: »

Don't dismiss the fact that sitting on your ass doing nothing is a good way to give them the ammo to dismiss you with cause. I'm not saying you need to bust your ass for them, but make sure you are at least meeting your obligations.

Beyond that, do you want to be the toxic employee that is only there because HR have to follow procedure, that everyone knows about and who might get a reputation on the back of it? In the financial sector?

I would think carefully about that, is it really worth it?

Speak to your boss straight, say that you know the procedures involved and that you have no intention of resigning, but that you might listen to a good offer. Then go off and do your job to the minimum expectation.

If you are going to do this you need to make REALLY sure that any compensation you receive will at least cover the time it takes you to find a new job.

You could be out of work for 6 months, if you took 2 months wages you'd feel pretty stupid.

I'd stay put while I found myself a new job, then when I had one, say that you will leave for X compensation, then its win:win.

They got rid of you and you got paid.

DeanAustin

bucketybuck wrote: »

Don't dismiss the fact that sitting on your ass doing nothing is a good way to give them the ammo to dismiss you with cause. I'm not saying you need to bust your ass for them, but make sure you are at least meeting your obligations.

Beyond that, do you want to be the toxic employee that is only there because HR have to follow procedure, that everyone knows about and who might get a reputation on the back of it? In the financial sector?

I would think carefully about that, is it really worth it?

Speak to your boss straight, say that you know the procedures involved and that you have no intention of resigning, but that you might listen to a good offer. Then go off and do your job to the minimum expectation.

This is great advice. I’ve been recruiting a bit over the last 12 months and I’d say I’ve been able to get an opinion from various contacts on 10%-20% of candidates or because I knew the applicants myself. Most of those opinions have been negative.

Dublin is a small place and negative feedback will rule you out of jobs off the bat.

Candyshell

bucketybuck wrote: »

Don't dismiss the fact that sitting on your ass doing nothing is a good way to give them the ammo to dismiss you with cause. I'm not saying you need to bust your ass for them, but make sure you are at least meeting your obligations.

Beyond that, do you want to be the toxic employee that is only there because HR have to follow procedure, that everyone knows about and who might get a reputation on the back of it? In the financial sector?

I would think carefully about that, is it really worth it?

Speak to your boss straight, say that you know the procedures involved and that you have no intention of resigning, but that you might listen to a good offer. Then go off and do your job to the minimum expectation.

Yea, I'm in the financial sector, at AVP level. Narrowly missed out on a role yesterday to an internal candidate. I interview "extremely well" according to my recruiter and apart from role yesterday got offers from my previous six interviews. So I'm confident if the interviews come my way it won't be long before I get one. Only problem is it seems to be sparse right now at my level in my particular field of expertise which has me worried now.

I'm making an effort to be professional and perform my duties which my manager has actually noticed and thanked me for. I'm even interviewing people to fill vancancies in the team which does feel a bit odd given my situation.

When he asks me to resign I'll politely tell him if I were to do so without an offer in hand or some other incentive my wife would cut my balls off.

helimachoptor

Candyshell wrote: »

When he asks me to resign I'll politely tell him if I were to do so without an offer in hand or some other incentive my wife would cut my balls off.

Dont say that. :P

See what their proposal is, say you'll consider it.
Come here and we'll tell you what to say :pac:

I think you've enough info to formulate a response if they are asking you to help out.

drunkmonkey

The incentive is your not let go. Call it a dignafied discharge. Don't think there's any money to be got.

WoollyRedHat

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The incentive is your not let go. Call it a dignafied discharge. Don't think there's any money to be got.

Where's the dignity exactly, hits performance targets, is expected to play schtum because it's inconvenient for him to go straight away and if shoe was on other foot would be expected to give two months notice. **** that ask for two month salary plus a nice reference before being asked to fall on a sword to appease the boys in corporate.

AndrewJRenko

I'd suggest that you talk to your manager about addressing the performance issue first. This will stand to you if it ever goes legal, or if you need to make a claim.

Make a formal request for 'what is it going to take to make this work' - what results he needs from you.

I wouldn't be doing any jumping until I had another offer signed and sealed.

screamer

I'd leave when I wanted....and I'd drag him through HR whilst I was there. From what you describe there is no due process and you've not been treated fairly. I'd tell the manager you are consulting with a legal employment expert and make him sweat.
And note down very deliberately every thing said in meetings... As I said make him sweat don't let him off the hook. Sounds like a desperate corporate climber who'd do anything to show his loyalty to the company....the old glass ceiling will crush him eventually the bloody idiot

vg88

Had a boss on a former job that wanted me gone. I use to work with her on the floor then she got promoted to manager (even though she was useless). She tried her best to try get me to quit.

I finally caught her out after she mentioned "oh this wouldn't look well on your reference for future employers". I jumped on that horse to ask her why was my employment in question and i quickly realised she knew that I was rightfully thinking of constructive dismissal. Never had an issue with her again (although I quit 3 months later for college studies), I could have screwed them over because of this.

OP you have the upper hand now, up to you how you play it.

drunkmonkey

screamer wrote: »

I'd tell the manager you are consulting with a legal employment expert and make him sweat.

Yea the manager is going to crap himself and write a big cheque. :rolleyes:

Ash.J.Williams

Candyshell wrote: »

In Dublin, work in IFSC. Just missed out on a job offer yesterday narrowly. Want to go now at this stage, don't want to be somewhere I'm not wanted.

Don't resign until you get a new job and if that's past the time they have allotted you... F*K THEM

cursai

Candyshell wrote: »

Yea, I'm in the financial sector, at AVP level. Narrowly missed out on a role yesterday to an internal candidate. I interview "extremely well" according to my recruiter and apart from role yesterday got offers from my previous six interviews. So I'm confident if the interviews come my way it won't be long before I get one. Only problem is it seems to be sparse right now at my level in my particular field of expertise which has me worried now.

I'm making an effort to be professional and perform my duties which my manager has actually noticed and thanked me for. I'm even interviewing people to fill vancancies in the team which does feel a bit odd given my situation.

When he asks me to resign I'll politely tell him if I were to do so without an offer in hand or some other incentive my wife would cut my balls off.

What's avp stand for? Alien Versus Predator? I'm a non financial services person.

Mrs OBumble

Candyshell wrote: »

Yea, I'm in the financial sector, at AVP level. Narrowly missed out on a role yesterday to an internal candidate.

OP, either you're trolling or extremely naive. Or hopefully you've put similar-but-different details here so you cannot be identified. For your sake, I hope this is the case. If not, then maybe if you ask the mods nicely they'll clean it up for you.

Anyways, go to a real employment solicitor and get real advice.

Half the advice here would be great advice if you were a shop assistant or a truck driver or whatever. But you're not: you're a management level employee in a professional role. Totally different kettle of fish. Your manager has given you a chance to make a clean exit with no stain on your reputation - a smart person would use it. Your agreed settlement with the company needs to cover issues like compensation, references (written and verbal), non-disclosure, length of garden leave - and maybe others that a solicitor will know about, and I've forgotten.

OMM 0000

I feel you have two options:

1. Do nothing, and wait to get fired.

2. Negotiate a leaving date. This will give you time to find a new job. Your leaving date can be something like this: November 30 will be my last day, however if I find a replacement job before then, I can leave on one month's notice.

Personally I would choose option 2. As a manager I would find it reasonable.

Misguided1

Go to HR. The type of company that has an AVP grading system will also have a HR department who will not be comfortable with a manager asking someone to resign with (seemingly) no good reason whatsoever. It's highly unlikely that he has consulted with them. Managers regularly allude to having support from HR as some sort of permission to do what they want. Call your managers bluff.

Don't ask for a handout at the start. Go to HR and start pointing out the lack of process, positive feedback, hitting your targets, conflicting messages etc. Ask for their guidance on what exactly is going on and say that you have started looking for another job but you can't help feeling like you aren't been treated fairly. It's knocking your confidence etc.

Then sit back and wait. You might find your manager leaves before you do (unlikely) but you will have a stronger negotiating position if it comes down to money.

Rikand

cursai wrote: »

What's avp stand for? Alien Versus Predator? I'm a non financial services person.

At a guess, Associate Vice President

Zubeneschamali

Rikand wrote: »

At a guess, Associate Vice President

Jayz, what's his manager called, Holy Roman Emperor?

Rikand

I was in a similar position myself a few years ago. Give it my best for a couple of months while all the time looking for work elsewhere. Eventually the situation became untenable so I asked to take the 2 months notice period. I also informed them that I would be unable to draw social welfare for a period of 9 weeks if I resigned from the position. They countered by offering me 3 months notice pay if I left by the end of the week and I got a superb reference.


Ask for a good reference
Tell them you will submit your 2 months notice period as long as they are able to cover your period of lost social welfare payment. They should offer you the 3 months pay as a given in that case
And for the love of all that is jesus, dont stay in that place any longer than is absolutely necessary. That kind of toxicity will start to affect your life inside and outside the workplace

the only time you'd ever hear of a situation like this is if the manager us offering someone an out when all parties know that a dismissal would ensue but its in all parties interests to avoid the long, expensive and on-the-record process

is there anything at all you arent telling us that you might not want on-the-record op?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, either you're trolling or extremely naive. Or hopefully you've put similar-but-different details here so you cannot be identified. For your sake, I hope this is the case. If not, then maybe if you ask the mods nicely they'll clean it up for you.

Anyways, go to a real employment solicitor and get real advice.

Half the advice here would be great advice if you were a shop assistant or a truck driver or whatever. But you're not: you're a management level employee in a professional role. Totally different kettle of fish. Your manager has given you a chance to make a clean exit with no stain on your reputation - a smart person would use it. Your agreed settlement with the company needs to cover issues like compensation, references (written and verbal), non-disclosure, length of garden leave - and maybe others that a solicitor will know about, and I've forgotten.

Everything you say is wrong.

They can’t fire him nor give him a bad reference unless it is backed up by internal statistics and reviews. The higher up someone is the more this is important. At that level people are paid off.

He could resign and claim constructive dismissal right now.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Everything you say is wrong.

They can’t fire him nor give him a bad reference unless it is backed up by internal statistics and reviews. The higher up someone is the more this is important. At that level people are paid.

He could resign and claim constructive dismissal right now.

frankly id agree with M. O'Bumble 100%