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Papal Visit - Poor show by the Defense Forces

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    [mod]One-line posts consisting of nothing but insult are not acceptable behaviour. Week ban.[/mod]



    And here I was hoping that the military forum would be the last bastion of the legal definition of 'civilian' from the encroachment which has been going on for several years, starting in the US.

    Gardai are civilians. You would want to say "Private citizens"

    Maybe I should have said "locals" but I appreciate the correction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    They always have and always will perform all tasks assigned, at home or overseas.

    They have long standing grievences which have been continuously ignored by the government and military leadership.

    This is a product of frustration and their only outlet to be heard...unlike other jobs, careers, state services.

    It's not ideal to do a similar but more robust task and get paid less than €2 per hour while another guy doing less work, in better conditions gets paid 20 times that.

    Looking in from the outside, it looks like whinging but thats all you see...from the outside.

    Technically, OPSEC wasnt breached but PERSEC was and they still performed their task as assigned....in the rain...for low pay...at a religious festival...which they shouldnt have been assigned.

    Anyway, these lads train to defend the State and have been doing it since 1922. They are entrusted as you said to defend its citizens...their most important task.

    It's so important that they are rewarded as the lowest paid body in the public sector.

    They signed up to fight for you under any circumstances and any time. They travel overseas and put themselves in a position to fight for someone else if needed.

    Let them fight for themselves here now, because nobody else will.

    You are trying to paint a rainbow using only black and white colours. How about supporting them instead of bashing them?

    Nobody asked them to join the army.


  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    My guy must have been pulling my leg on the €1k so. Thanks for the clarification.

    He'd wanna be doing some amount of OT to get that. Again it could be a before tax figure of 20+ hours of all Sunday OT to get that, but like when the queen was over and Obama, the press had mad figures. I worked it too and made nowhere near what was going around the papers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Nobody asked them to join the army.

    Same could be said for the many private sector workers who sign up to their companies and then suddenly don't like the conditions they signed up to. The difference is that they are legally entitled to join a union and protest/strike. The Defence Forces aren't.
    Like all public / civil servants, their pay and conditions were cut drastically when their employers failed to manage the budget.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Nobody asked them to join the army.

    Nobody asked for your opinion...but here it is.

    The worst and laziest type of opinion might I add.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    He'd wanna be doing some amount of OT to get that. Again it could be a before tax figure of 20+ hours of all Sunday OT to get that, but like when the queen was over and Obama, the press had mad figures. I worked it too and made nowhere near what was going around the papers.

    He might have been doing OT in Friday too?


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭wpd


    first i have to say i found the soldiers in the phonix park very helpful and professional
    I didnt really understand why they were there as i only saw them directing people as they were leaving

    surely the army has a setup to feed personnel with field kitchens so why were these not used?

    I spoke to 2 soldiers on the day and they said they hadnt slept out overnight


  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    He might have been doing OT in Friday too?

    Possibly. Most just worked the Saturday and Sunday on OT. I'm sure there was some who were part of the planning and got more overtime than the average member.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    wpd wrote: »
    first i have to say i found the soldiers in the phonix park very helpful and professional
    I didnt really understand why they were there as i only saw them directing people as they were leaving

    surely the army has a setup to feed personnel with field kitchens so why were these not used?

    I spoke to 2 soldiers on the day and they said they hadnt slept out overnight

    Different troops were doing different tasks. The ones sleeping out were armed security, you most likely wouldnt have seen them. The "guides" would have had an easier time of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    RobbieMD wrote: »
    Possibly. Most just worked the Saturday and Sunday on OT. I'm sure there was some who were part of the planning and got more overtime than the average member.

    Thanks for replying to my posts and providing clarity from the AGS side of the house.

    It was very welcome and informative.

    I'm sure you will be stung again with the Donald visit!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    Thanks for replying to my posts and providing clarity from the AGS side of the house.

    It was very welcome and informative.

    I'm sure you will be stung again with the Donald visit!

    Hopefully he just goes to Doonbeg and stays away from Dublin !


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Theres a good few lads that have left the DF for The Guards.


    It used to be a great job and when it comes to pay restoration the lads get the scraps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,605 ✭✭✭Kat1170


    Chewbacca wrote:
    I'm sure you will be stung again with the Donald visit!


    Given they had a couple of years to plan the Pope's visit and how the lads ended up being treated, I can just imagine the hames the top brass will make of this with only a couple of months notice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,325 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    And another overpaid bed scratcher
    I've never heard of a hypodermic needle being paid. :pac:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    osheen wrote: »
    What I can't understand is why the lads weren't rotated in and out of McKee .
    No shortage of facilities there and only a 10 minute walk from the stage . It just baffles me the disregard that was shown to the lads forcing them to camp out with a mostly empty barracks so close .

    There was no money in the budget for the use of Mckee. Civilian contractors would have been required.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    There was no money in the budget for the use of Mckee. Civilian contractors would have been required.

    What does that mean?.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    What does that mean?.

    Theres a lot of "wrong" in just those 2 sentences!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    Theres a lot of "wrong" in just those 2 sentences!

    He has me completely baffled alright.

    No money in what budget, and civilian contractors for what in McKee?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    He has me completely baffled alright.

    No money in what budget, and civilian contractors for what in McKee?

    Civilian caterers and supplies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Civilian caterers and supplies.

    Civilian caterers?

    The Defence Forces have hundreds of cooks, McKee has a large cookhouse with a number of army cooks working there everyday, breakfast, lunch and dinner.

    You were misinformed, consider yourself informed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭mrsoundie


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Civilian caterers and supplies.

    Civilian caterers when the School of Buns is there already. No.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Civilian caterers and supplies.
    Chewbacca wrote: »
    Civilian caterers?

    The Defence Forces have hundreds of cooks, McKee has a large cookhouse with a number of army cooks working there everyday, breakfast, lunch and dinner.

    You were misinformed, consider yourself informed.

    You're talking through your hole This ^^^


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭leinsterjack


    The Defense Forces were assigned the task of protecting the 100k's visiting the Phoenix Park during the Papal visit. It is their most important fuction- to protect the state and the citizens. They have not only bitched and moaned about it on social media but probably breached opsec by posting pictures online. Anyone else disappointed at their conduct?

    I know that I am incredibly late and most of my argument has already been mentioned but....

    2 euros an hour..... military neutrality does not mean we treat the small military we have like s***.

    I have huge sympathy for the lack of respect shown to the people who would willingly sacrifice thier own life for the Irish nation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭DanMurphy


    We Irish just love our soldiers.
    NOT


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Just saw your post fair play lad. I was in the service myself. Retained. Cheap way for the council to have 24hour cover. Absolute p*ss take. Often on call at 3 In the morning and in to my regular job at 8. Hard life.

    Off topic, but was it worth it in your opinion? Might be something I'm interested in in the future.


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