Leak in duplex

SozBbz

Hi all,

I’ve just noticed a leak coming through (visibly wet ceiling and walls, water dripping through presses) from the bathroom into the kitchen of my duplex.

I’d noticed staining on the ceiling previously and redid the sealant around the bath at the time and didn’t notice any deterioration so just left it be (hadn’t yet redecorated as have other work planned) so this is quite an escalation although it must have still been leaking slowly despite me not noticing anything.

Can anyone advise is this would typically be covered under the block policy?

davo10

Presumably you are the owner and the leak is in your bathroom on the floor above your kitchen? I'm not sure how this would be covered under the block policy as it is inside your property. You need to get a tiler in to reseal/retile around your shower. You can reseal yourself if you are handy but you need to strip away all the old sealant.

Block insurance policies tend to be for problems with common areas, roof, external walls etc. Your own property and contents insurance is for everything inside your front door.

SozBbz

Yes, bathroom is above the kitchen.

My thinking was that if I owned an standard house I would have building and house contents insurance, and in that scenario I’d have thought I’d be covered under the buildings policy subject to excess.

In a MUD obviously I can’t take out a buildings policy, but do pay my management fees and therefore towards the block policy which covers any major issues.
Also there are plenty of things that I can’t do without consulting the Management Co, because in apt’s/duplexes you don’t actually have ownership of certain things like your balcony, attic etc and you’re not entitled to make layout changes etc so I thought that perhaps the pipes etc might be considered part of that and therefore covered.

I’m not concerned about it covering redecoration etc, I just thought it might cover fixing the fundamental issue fixed and made safe.

I now don’t believe it’s anything to do with the sealing around the bath as I mentioned I had this sealed properly when I first noticed staining on the kitchen ceiling, I now think it’s something to do with the pipes.

Gumbo

Could be a leak in the trap below the bath.
Or any of the pipes feeding the taps, connections etc

As you own the duplex, and the leak is from within your property then I. Sieve the issue is yours to fix. Whether you go through insurance or not is up to you.

As an apartment owner, you need contents insurance and possible all risk for internal damage like this. The block policy from my experience only covers the structure and any damage that passes from one unit to another.

Hope you get sorted though and hopefully I’m wrong with regards the insurance and you have some recourse.

SozBbz

Yes obviously if it’s all on me, then I just have to face up to dealing with it, I just didn’t want to go off and do something without exploring my options first.

I will also contact my own contents insurers and review the details of that policy.

I’ve no idea how this is going to be solved without taking the bath out so I think this is going to be expensive!

I’m also going to try to find a plumber myself to give me an assessment of what’s wrong and what it’s going to take to fix it.

beertons

I read that as Durex, and thought it was in an odd thread.

davo10

Op, you referred to sealing around a bath, do you stand in a bath while having a shower?

I had exactly this problem with a bath in an apartment I own. The flooring under the bath was ply so when anyone stood in the bath, the bath moved slightly and the seals would quickly come away from the surrounding wall. Led to leak into apartment below.

I had to place a couple of solid wood planks under the feet of the bath, stopped it from moving under the weight of the person in it. No prob after that.

SozBbz

Yes it’s a shower and bath combined. It’s still the original bathroom from when it was built about 18 years ago so not the most modern set up!

The floor is tiled so I’m not sure if it would be similar to the above scenario but let’s hope it’s something less serious than I’m currently fearing.

Gumbo

SozBbz wrote: »

Yes obviously if it’s all on me, then I just have to face up to dealing with it, I just didn’t want to go off and do something without exploring my options first.

I will also contact my own contents insurers and review the details of that policy.

I’ve no idea how this is going to be solved without taking the bath out so I think this is going to be expensive!

I’m also going to try to find a plumber myself to give me an assessment of what’s wrong and what it’s going to take to fix it.

The bath will have a side panel that can be removed in order to access all the pipe work under the bath. It should be very apparent if the leak is coming from the bath once this panel is removed.

Eggs For Dinner

The damage to anything structural is the subject of your block policy. Anything to your personal possessions is down to your contents policy. If you're dealing with a burst pipe, you're fine. If it is a "leaky pipe" or poor workmanship, they are standard exclusions

tradesman

+1 to what kceire has said. I would suggest getting in a plumber to stop the leak then contact loss assessor who will advise you on the rest of the works required to put the property back to original condition before the leak. They will also deal with your insurance company for around 8 - 10% of the ckaim. Well worth it as they will grt you the full entitlement. You only get paid for the damage the leak causes not the repair to the leak. My guess is leaking trap or loose pipe joint.

SozBbz

Thanks all,
Yes now that you mention it, the bath does have plastic pannels that can presumably be removed, thank god its not tiled in!
I'm going to have a quick look at my house contents insurance to see whats covered and what the excess is and then get a plumber this morning if I can.
Is there a regulatiory body for plumbers as there is for Gas/Electricians etc? Also should I be looking for plumbers who specialise in leak detection or does that mean more serious leaks like underground pipes etc?#
I've found hapai.ie and aphci.ie - is one better than the other?

Gumbo

SozBbz wrote: »

Thanks all,
Yes now that you mention it, the bath does have plastic pannels that can presumably be removed, thank god its not tiled in!
I'm going to have a quick look at my house contents insurance to see whats covered and what the excess is and then get a plumber this morning if I can.
Is there a regulatiory body for plumbers as there is for Gas/Electricians etc? Also should I be looking for plumbers who specialise in leak detection or does that mean more serious leaks like underground pipes etc?

Standard Plumber, even a handy man could fix this in fairness.
But check your insurance policy and see if you have some sort of emergency call out cover.

The_Conductor

We have, what I thought was a standard block policy, with Axa via Murray Spelman here.
All water damage- regardless of whether it is internal in one unit- or affecting multiple units- is covered.
Note- the excess is 1,200 on our block policy here.........

OP- contact your Management Company- you just might be covered (it depends on the policy), don't assume you're not covered.

SozBbz

Thanks.

Just by means of an update. I contacted the agent for the OMC and they told me that water damage is covered. He's not given me any info yet other than to say that he'll contact the insurers to warn them of a potential claim. I've asked if the plumber who is retained by the management agency can come take a look as a first step.

Before the OMC guy had gotten back to me, I had also rang around a few local plumbers to ask about costs/availability. Told him that a call out would be €80, plus any work done. Suddenly himself is feeling all handy and has taken the side panel of the bath and found a loose connection with corresponding damp patch underneath. 

I'd still like a professional to take a look and obviously downstairs will need to be repainted once everything has had a chance to dry out properly but I'm somewhat comforted that we think we've found the issue!

The_Conductor

Good to hear it.
Seriously- pay the 80 quid to the plumber and get them to sort it.
The bigger cost here is going to be the repainting.
Also- seriously advise you get a decent dehumidifier and run it for a couple of days to make sure you get the water out.

Eggs For Dinner

OP, get a Public Loss Assessor to represent you. They will charge a fee but they are professionals at this and will identify some aspects you are entitled to that you might not even consider and handle everything with your own insurer and the block insurer (if the management co allow it). One poster suggested getting your plumber do this for a fee. I've never heard of that and would advise you to steer well clear. You need a professional at this

I'd suggest Balcombes (not associated in any way)

The_Conductor

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

OP, get a Public Loss Assessor to represent you. They will charge a fee but they are professionals at this and will identify some aspects you are entitled to that you might not even consider and handle everything with your own insurer and the block insurer (if the management co allow it). One poster suggested getting your plumber do this for a fee. I've never heard of that and would advise you to steer well clear. You need a professional at this

I'd suggest Balcombes (not associated in any way)

If you are making a claim via the Management Company- the MCM is the party who are making the claim- not the OP- be very careful about independently getting a Public Loss Assessor involved- as the nature of MCM policies means the OP is not the party who are making the claim............

Contact the Management Company and suggest *they* employ a Public Loss Assessor- don't do it yourself!!!

Lantus

The block policy covers what was installed when the property was built. This typically includes the internal plasterboard, electrics and sometimes kitchen. However, the excess can often be very high as its a large value policy for the entire block and like most policies doesn't respond well to claims in terms of future premiums.

Hopefully a lot will dry out and be OK....

Eggs For Dinner

The_Conductor wrote:

Contact the Management Company and suggest *they* employ a Public Loss Assessor- don't do it yourself!!!

My comment was to allow the PLA to obtain permission to investigate the cause of the loss from the Management Co., which will be structural in nature. Having established the cause, the PLA can negotiate with the OPs contents insurers and offer his report to the Management Co, if they want it, to use for their claim

Gumbo

SozBbz wrote: »

Thanks.

Just by means of an update. I contacted the agent for the OMC and they told me that water damage is covered. He's not given me any info yet other than to say that he'll contact the insurers to warn them of a potential claim. I've asked if the plumber who is retained by the management agency can come take a look as a first step.

Before the OMC guy had gotten back to me, I had also rang around a few local plumbers to ask about costs/availability. Told him that a call out would be €80, plus any work done. Suddenly himself is feeling all handy and has taken the side panel of the bath and found a loose connection with corresponding damp patch underneath. 

I'd still like a professional to take a look and obviously downstairs will need to be repainted once everything has had a chance to dry out properly but I'm somewhat comforted that we think we've found the issue!

Leave the side panel off for a week. During which time, have showers, baths etc etc as normal and inspect during and after each use.

If you can fit a class or small bowel under the connection, then you will get an idea if its still leaking or not.

SozBbz

Thanks everyone.
So to update again, the insurance excess is €5k. This is a hangover from a lot of claims that were made for storm damage a few years back.
OMC have stated that they don't cover the cost of getting a plumber out but obviously if it turns out to be some huge issue (unlikely I assume) costing more than €5k that I can claim.
Going to see what its like when i get home from work. I have a container that I think i can fit under the connection that should tell me if anything happens when we try to have baths, showers etc.
One of the plumbers I was thinking of going with also advertises bathroom refits which I was looking to get costed anyway. I might ring him later in the week assuming no emergencies, and ask him to come out to quote for replacement of the bathroom (its very dated and doesnt even have mixer taps!) as well as taking a look at the problem.