eir FTTH & IP addresses

Johnboy1951

I presently have adsl from eir.
I use an old eir modem which is set up in 'NAT + bridge' mode.
This provides me with two IP addresses .... the first through the modem/router itself and the second in another router connected in PPPoE mode using the same log in details as the modem.
The two issued IP addresses are separately functioning.

Will it be possible - should I get FTTH from eir - to get similar functionality as above?

If yes what will be required?
A change of hardware?

KeRbDoG

Eir FTTH is presented as a ethernet cable after the ONT - if you have your own router which supports VLAN setting on the WAN port, your sorted.
No need for the NAT/Bridge of an Eir device, just direct into your own router.

Johnboy1951

So the setup could be this?

[HTML]ONT -> Switch -> Router 1 with IP address #1
-> Router 2 with IP address #2[/HTML]

frozenfrozen

It is VLAN tagged so you would need to plug the ONT into a router or something capable of VLANs (most routers with an ethernet WAN port are)

you could go

ONT -> Router 1 -> (-> switch) -> router 2

I am not 100% sure what you are trying to achieve with two routers, if it is having two separate subnets then you can do that easily.

If you want to just extend your network through router 1 to router 2 you can do that by having router 2s WAN port be a port on router 1 (or through a switch in between)

if it is just extending your wifi you can do that too


but in your example the two ip addresses are just the ip addresses for different devices on the network, router 1 and router 2, so you would still be able to contact them if they were attached to your new network on FTTH.

I have probably made too many assumptions and gone in a crazy direction, so let me know if that didn't answer it at all and I'll try again

Johnboy1951

Not related to Wifi and not related to LAN IPs

I presently have two IP addresses from my adsl connection
86.44.29.#1
86.44.29.#2

I want to know if I can get a similar function from an eir FTTH connection, and if yes, how would that be best achieved - ie. hardware.

frozenfrozen

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Not related to Wifi and not related to LAN IPs

I presently have two IP addresses from my adsl connection
86.44.29.#1
86.44.29.#2

I want to know if I can get a similar function from an eir FTTH connection, and if yes, how would that be best achieved - ie. hardware.

Ah sorry, completely misread. No idea how many ips you will get. NAT + Bridge won't work but if you have a PfSense box or something you would be able to assign those IPs to different ports or do 1:1 nat etc if you needed. Hope that helps at least!

Johnboy1951

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Ah sorry, completely misread. No idea how many ips you will get. NAT + Bridge won't work but if you have a PfSense box or something you would be able to assign those IPs to different ports or do 1:1 nat etc if you needed. Hope that helps at least!

Presently the IPs are dynamically assigned, and if I read the above correctly I would need two static IP addresses to assign them in a Pfsense box (which I don't have).

I guess the first thing to try to determine is if I can access two different IP addresses from the FTTH connection, and then how this could most easily be achieved.

frozenfrozen

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Presently the IPs are dynamically assigned, and if I read the above correctly I would need two static IP addresses to assign them in a Pfsense box (which I don't have).

I guess the first thing to try to determine is if I can access two different IP addresses from the FTTH connection, and then how this could most easily be achieved.

you can have PfSense assign wan ip by DHCP, but no idea how that will play with the FTTH setup

how many ips will be assigned to you on ftth is the first question though

Marlow

Take a cheapo switch, that is VLan transparent.

Connect your Eir provided router using IPoE to said switch.

Connect your second router to said switch and set it up for VLan 10 and PPPoE instead.

I haven't tried this, so I can't tell you if it works. But if it was doable in any way, form or shape, this is the way you'd have to do it. If they don't filter a maximum amount of mac-addresses, this should in theory work, because the 2 IPs come from different IP pools.

2 PPPoE sessions won't work. Eirs gear already gets confused when you try to set up MLPPP.

/M

westyIrl

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

This provides me with two IP addresses .... the first through the modem/router itself and the second in another router connected in PPPoE mode using the same log in details as the modem.

What is the benefit to such a setup? Do Eir assign two dynamic public IP addresses per DSL connection? I didn't realise you could have two PPPoE connections on the same DSL line simultaneously or am I missing something here?

Jim

Johnboy1951

Marlow wrote: »

Take a cheapo switch, that is VLan transparent.

Connect your Eir provided router using IPoE to said switch.

Connect your second router to said switch and set it up for VLan 10 and PPPoE instead.

I haven't tried this, so I can't tell you if it works. But if it was doable in any way, form or shape, this is the way you'd have to do it. If they don't filter a maximum amount of mac-addresses, this should in theory work, because the 2 IPs come from different IP pools.

2 PPPoE sessions won't work. Eirs gear already gets confused when you try to set up MLPPP.

/M

So the way to test if it will work is to use a similar wiring setup as described earlier ...

[HTML]ONT -> Switch -> Router 1 with IP address #1
-> Router 2 with IP address #2[/HTML]

where router 1 is the eir router and router 2 is set up using VLAN and PPPoE, which is similar to the present adsl set up.

I will give that a try when/if I get connected to FTTH.

It would be nice to know that this or some other scheme would work before I begin.

ED E

I can confirm that a single sub (without being allocated a /29) can pull two IPs as above.

WAN 1: IPoE - IP pulled from NGA aggregator in local exchange, routes from there, IPTV multicast included for eirVision
WAN 2: PPPoE - IP pulled from the BRAS in your local POP, encapsulated that far, will route from there.

Best way to achieve this would be with CPE that will allow two logical connections on a single physical interface.

ED E

westyIrl wrote: »

What is the benefit to such a setup?

Johnboy wants to cheat the bookies or gamers.

Johnboy1951

ED E wrote: »

Johnboy wants to cheat the bookies or gamers.

Hehehehehehe

ED E wrote: »

I can confirm that a single sub (without being allocated a /29) can pull two IPs as above.

WAN 1: IPoE - IP pulled from NGA aggregator in local exchange, routes from there, IPTV multicast included for eirVision
WAN 2: PPPoE - IP pulled from the BRAS in your local POP, encapsulated that far, will route from there.

Is there anything special to be done to get WAN 2?

Best way to achieve this would be with CPE that will allow two logical connections on a single physical interface.

Any suggestions for such equipment?
How such might be wired up?

westyIrl

ED E wrote: »

WAN 1: IPoE - IP pulled from NGA aggregator in local exchange, routes from there, IPTV multicast included for eirVision
WAN 2: PPPoE - IP pulled from the BRAS in your local POP, encapsulated that far, will route from there.

Thanks ED E for the clarification. Never even considered this being a possibility. Is the line speed of a single DSL connection shared across both PPPoE and IPoE connections and how does one logical connection contend with the other?

Trying to get my head around the practicalities of such a setup.

thanks

Jim

Marlow

westyIrl wrote: »

Thanks ED E for the clarification. Never even considered this being a possibility. Is the line speed of a single DSL connection shared across both PPPoE and IPoE connections and how does one connection contend with the other?

Trying to get my head around the practicalities of such a setup.



I believe PPPoE is the existing WAN method for existing ADSL.

The speed profile is applied to the line, not the sessions. So your max speed will always be the combined speed.

The only goodie you get is an extra IP. Not more speed.

/M

ED E

You can think of it as a dumb switch with 7 x100Mb clients and 1x 100Mb uplink. All clients are serviced *roughly* equally.

westyIrl

Thanks for the explanation. Just gave it a go there. Couldn't get the second router to get IP address by DHCP so set it up as initial router in PPPoE mode for kicks.

Get a second different Eir IP address allocated and both routers routing fine. Are two PPPoE sessions allowed/workable by Eir or am I just asking for trouble here?

My setup is a TD-W8960N (for its broadcom chipset) set to bridge mode. Router A and B both in PPPoE WAN mode plugged into LAN ports of TD-W8960N

Jim

Marlow

westyIrl wrote: »

Are two PPPoE sessions allowed/workable by Eir or am I just asking for trouble here?

Don't think that's going to work. I think they limited it. Even using the same PPPoE username and password for multiple session on different lines goes wrong.

Hence why MLPPP doesn't work and bonding requires a bit more "inventive" provider solution.

IPoE comes from the exchange. PPPoE comes from the nearest BRAS. They missed that loophole. 2 PPPoE sessions would come from the same BRAS and that would just go .... erh .. no !

/M

Johnboy1951

The above does not appear to be in line with what I posted earlier.

To repeat

I have an eir modem/router connected to adsl using standard eir protocol.

I have that modem set up in NAT+Bridge mode.

I have a second device (Draytek) connected to the LAN side of the eir device and obtaining a different IP address to the eir one using PPPoE.

Both devices use the same Username and Password.

That, to my limited understanding, would seem to imply that both IP addresses are coming from the same source.

I have been running the connection like this for years.

Yes both IPs are on the same connection, so their data use is combined in the total data throughput.

Both IP addresses are dynamic ...... presently they are

86.44.29.xxx and 86.44.28.yyy

.

Johnboy1951

westyIrl wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation. Just gave it a go there. Couldn't get the second router to get IP address by DHCP so set it up as initial router in PPPoE mode for kicks.

Get a second different Eir IP address allocated and both routers routing fine. Are two PPPoE sessions allowed/workable by Eir or am I just asking for trouble here?

My setup is a TD-W8960N (for its broadcom chipset) set to bridge mode. Router A and B both in PPPoE WAN mode plugged into LAN ports of TD-W8960N

Jim

That is how I have been running my connection for years.

Eircom (now eir) have never objected or interfered with the setup.

ED E

It shouldnt work but I've also seen it work too. The RAS is actually a cluster and they should cross check and terminate multi calls with the same CSI after a minute or two.

At a guess one or more of the RASs is misconfigured so as not to prevent it. Only Eir SMC guys in Citywest would know for sure.

Johnboy1951

ED E wrote: »

It shouldnt work but I've also seen it work too. The RAS is actually a cluster and they should cross check and terminate multi calls with the same CSI after a minute or two.

At a guess one or more of the RASs is misconfigured so as not to prevent it. Only Eir SMC guys in Citywest would know for sure.

Well whatever the reason it has been the same for a decade or more.

I *think* it might be limited to two IP addresses.

ED E

86-44-28-123-dynamic.agg2.ens.lmk-pgs.eircom.net
86-44-29-123-dynamic.agg2.ens.lmk-pgs.eircom.net

So you're calling PGS1.

Johnboy1951

ED E wrote: »

86-44-28-123-dynamic.agg2.ens.lmk-pgs.eircom.net
86-44-29-123-dynamic.agg2.ens.lmk-pgs.eircom.net

So you're calling PGS1.

I have no idea what PGS1 is

westyIrl

Thanks for bringing up this issue Johnboy1951 and I hope I'm not hijacking your thread altogether, but it's a thing that could be advantageous in my setup.

I have 3 voip sip (G729 codec) channels operating over a very slow (but consistent) dsl line. QoS was a PITA to tune although I have it pretty good at the moment, it's still less than ideal.

I'm thinking of putting the SIP clients on its own router and everything else on a throttled router, there by leaving sufficient bandwidth for the SIP. Also it would segregate SIP traffic from the other non-vital stuff.

Would this provide a better QoS setup for VoIP or am I dreaming?

Either way, no matter what router I try I can't seem to get a dynamic address (DHCP connection) from the modem; only a second PPPoE connection seems to work. Am I missing something

Jim

Marlow

westyIrl wrote: »

I have 3 voip sip (G729 codec) channels operating over a very slow (but consistent) dsl line. QoS was a PITA to tune although I have it pretty good at the moment, it's still less than ideal.

While G.729 is great, you need a provider that will support it and will give you the CPU power to transcode. GSM codec similarly.

One of the beauties of the Fritz!Box routers is, that you specify your upstream and downstream speeds (for FTTH or cable). On DSL it actually knows automatically from your DSL sync rates.

So when you place a call, it'll throttle your internet traffic down to accomodate enough traffic to give you good VoIP quality. You can also connect SIP devices to the router. It also solves the NAT issues with SIP.

It's build for in-band VoIP. The Huawei ones aren't. Both Eir and Vodafone are doing VoIP out of band to ensure quality. Don't think they take care of bandwidth management for inband VoIP.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I have no idea what PGS1 is

86-44-28-123-dynamic.agg2.ens.lmk-pgs.eircom.net

They are Exchange codes:

ens: Ennis
lmk: Roches Street, Limerick
pgs: Portlaoise

I'm not sure I fully understand the naming convention though. Why does that imply he's calling Portlaoise instead of Roches St or Ennis?

ED E

Because there are only 16 RAS clusters. LMK and PGS have them but Ennis doesn't. From memory the convention is the last code is the cluster in use (its the end of the PPP and the start of normal TCP/IP routing). The convoluted naming may be due to historical configurations.

eg:
86-46-20-123-dynamic.b-ras1.bdt.dublin.eircom.net

Is just cluster 1, Blanchardstown.

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

Because there are only 16 RAS clusters. LMK and PGS have them but Ennis doesn't. From memory the convention is the last code is the cluster in use (its the end of the PPP and the start of normal TCP/IP routing).

Every day is a school day! Thanks.

Johnboy1951

westyIrl wrote: »

Thanks for bringing up this issue Johnboy1951 and I hope I'm not hijacking your thread altogether, but it's a thing that could be advantageous in my setup.

I have 3 voip sip (G729 codec) channels operating over a very slow (but consistent) dsl line. QoS was a PITA to tune although I have it pretty good at the moment, it's still less than ideal.

I'm thinking of putting the SIP clients on its own router and everything else on a throttled router, there by leaving sufficient bandwidth for the SIP. Also it would segregate SIP traffic from the other non-vital stuff.

Would this provide a better QoS setup for VoIP or am I dreaming?

Either way, no matter what router I try I can't seem to get a dynamic address (DHCP connection) from the modem; only a second PPPoE connection seems to work. Am I missing something

Jim

As I mentioned I use a Draytek (now quite old) device which has the possibility of registering six different VOIP accounts. I have used as many as 5 at one time over the years.
That is the device which has the second IP address, and thus my own VOIP connections are kept separate from all other traffic.
I have not had the need to throttle traffic to maintain VOIP connections on my 6Mb/s connection.
I also tend to use some software VOIP clients from time to time.
Some software clients can use non-standard VOIP ports (done in settings) so more than one can be running at the same time without clashing.

It remains to be seen whether this same dual IP scheme can be used on fibre or not.

Packet

Normally only one IPv4 address (plus on FTTH/VDSL2, when requested by the router, one IPv6 delegated prefix) is dynamically assigned per connection.

If every connection received separate requests for two IPv4 addresses the pools would run out of addresses but in practice that doesn't happen. In the network there is a higher limit (which has been applied in recent years to avoid problems such as that) on how many addresses and prefixes may be requested per connection. Since most people don't have set-ups requesting multiple IPv4 addresses overall the utilisation impact on the pools of requests for more than one IPv4 address is small.

With FTTH/VDSL2 the default is IPoE/DHCP but if a PPPoE IPCP request or two of the same kind of request is made both requests arrive at the same node and routing for both is the same. In the case of ADSL, connections are either mapped to a BRAS or lately one of the same nodes FTTH/VDSL2 connects to. Never both at the same time. So multiple address assignments always come from the same pool and the routing for them through the network is the same.

frozenfrozen

Is this still possible to get a second public ip on Eir FTTH? Sorry for bump. I think this will be the answer to an issue I've been having for months caused by symmetric vs full cone nat and WebRTC