M7 roadworks speeds vans from Monday

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https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/motoring-news/331010/garda-speed-vans-to-monitor-60kph-speed-limit-on-kildare-motorway-from-next-week.html

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Kildare gardaí will deploy Gosafe speed vans from next Monday on the stretch of the M7 motorway undergoing roadworks.

The speed cameras will be in place between Junction 8 (Johnstown) and Junction 11 (merge with M9) from Monday next, August 27, in order to enforce the 60kph speed limit in place on the road due to the extensive upgrade roadworks being carried out.

The decision to put the speed vans in place has been made in consultation with Kildare County Council, the works contractors and Gosafe.

“We thank the public for their co-operation and we request motorists to heed the speed limits when travelling through the works zone #arrivealive”,” said a Garda statement.

Several motorists have already been prosecuted at Naas District Court for breaking the speed limit around the motorway works, which has been in place since their commencement in January.

fullstop

Proper order too, some of the driving I see on that stretch daily is ridiculous with workers just the other side of a steel barrier.

kirving

Agreed, as much as everyone hates them they're a necessity sometimes.

Now it'll just be a race between the speed vans and know locations though. What's needed are average speed cameras covering the full stretch as is often done in England. Signpost it well, and no bad feeling if you're caught.

In the US, "traffic fines doubled in construction zone" is a common sign, and the same should apply here.

artanevilla

I'm actually famous on that stretch of road as the only person to ever go 60kmph.

Leonard Hofstadter

If they want to go enforcing it, they should at least have a sensible limit - 60 is ridiculously low. Roadworks on UK motorways are 50 mph or 80 in our money (soon to be raised to 60 mph or 97 km/h) and it should be at least that much here.

V8 Interceptor

37mph is rather low alright.

amcalester

captainspeed wrote: »

If they want to go enforcing it, they should at least have a sensible limit - 60 is ridiculously low. Roadworks on UK motorways are 50 mph or 80 in our money (soon to be raised to 60 mph or 97 km/h) and it should be at least that much here.

I bet 60 km/h is fast enough from the perspective of the workers.

highdef

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

37mph is rather low alright.

For an area where there are roadworks taking place, 16.6667 metres per second seems reasonable, in order to reduce injury or death if a collision takes place with a road worker. Furthermore, the chances of a collision occurring with everyone travelling at those speeds is also lower due to shorter braking distances, so long as everyone abides by the rules and nobody acts the muppet by purposely driving at relatively high speed.

A lot of cars these days have cruise control and speed limiters. If so, you've little excuse to exceed the limit so set cruise control to 60kmph (you can usually set it a few kmph higher to take into account the over reading of the speedometer). If traffic is heavier, simply set the speed limiter to the highest speed you may legally travel.

It's all very very simple really, some people just seem to think that they can make up their own rules to suit their own preferences (that doesn't just apply to the subject on this thread). Those people should hand in their licences as they are not abiding by the rules set out in order to be licensed to drive.

V8 Interceptor

Obey the limits yes but 37mph feels low. As Captainspeed said it appears to be 50mph in England.

Cabaal

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

Obey the limits yes but 37mph feels low. As Captainspeed said it appears to be 50mph in England.

50mph seems low, why not do 60mph?
:rolleyes:

37mph is fairly fast when its passing right beside of you, people need to think of other people's safety for once.

McCrack

I agree - 60 kph is too low

It should be 80 kph

At least we have a heads up - Have to figure out where the speed-van will be!

doolox

The limit is 60 which many agree here is too low. The actual prevailing speed appears to be about 80 kph.

Big question is : Have any road workers have been killed or injured in this area since the road works began?

Another question:- has any road user been involved in an accident due to excessive speed or tailgating ??

In many States in the US speed limits are set by measuring the speed of about 85% of the traffic encountered on a stretch of road. If there are no undue casualties in a given time frame the speed limit can be increased to the prevailing speed of 85% of the cars on that stretch of road. The law enforcement agencies then go after the 15% who exceed that new limit or also the ones who grossly go under that speed limit. There seems to be no mechanism here for increasing overly low speed limits.

Something you do not see in Ireland are minimum speed limits which are common on trunk roads and motorways on the continent and in the US. These are intended to prevent holdups and accidents due to underpowered or overloaded vehicles being driven overly slowly on the highways.Also you do not encounter weigh bridges or transport check points here as you do elsewhere.

Most slow vehicles I encounter on the motorways here are usually very old people, people on the phone, or people driving grossly overloaded vans and trucks and drawing badly overloaded trailers etc. These push other slow drivers out into the overtaking lane slowing everything down for all other road users.

I suspect that the authorities set the speed limit on that road overly low in order to avoid liability claims and political and career fallout in the event of an accident during construction.

Unless there is blanket 24/7 enforcement people doing the 60kph limit will feel intimidated by tailgaters, horn blowers etc into going over the speed limit towards the prevailing actual speed on that road.

The council need either to increase the limit to 80kph or increase enforcement drastically and very visibly so that the faster drivers are the ones intimidated and made to slow down.

Odyssey 2005

Was passed yesterday by two garda jeeps towing horse-boxes with two horses in each. They were travelling at well in excess of 100kph through the roadworks. Where's the safety there ? They are limited to 80 kph on a motorway.
Before the high horse brigade pipe up I know garda vehicles are exempt from speed limits. I'm on about safety here. I'd say they were on their way back from tralee on a or exercise.

doolox

This is what used to get up my goat when I lived in the States. Most official cars would blatantly break the speed limits (ludicrously slow ) while the ordinary drivers could not dare break them because of the level of enforcement at all levels on their roads ( city, State, county and God knows what else...).

There were several complaints about city officials abusing their police escorts and drivers to get to a non emergency appointment faster than the legal speed limit. Several inquiries were stonewalled by excuses surrounding operational needs and security considerations etc.

This made the respect for law enforcement lower than it should have been.

V8 Interceptor

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Was passed yesterday by two garda jeeps towing horse-boxes with two horses in each. Before the high horse brigade pipe up….

No bother Horse

Odyssey 2005

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

No bother Horse

Ok boss :)

Wailin

amcalester wrote: »

I bet 60 km/h is fast enough from the perspective of the workers.

Have you driven that stretch of road? You do realise the workers are protected by large steel barriers yes?

rabbitinlights

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Before the high horse brigade pipe up I know garda vehicles are exempt from speed limits.

Are they?

Lord Nikon

It's a great idea to see the speed limits and being enforced while the workers are there, but last time I checked, they don't do the works at night, or on weekends. Surely common sense would allow the limits to be relaxed during times where the construction works are not being done.

coolisin

Wailin wrote: »

Have you driven that stretch of road? You do realise the workers are protected by large steel barriers yes?

Yeah so hit the barrier at 100kph or hit the barrier at 60kph surely there is a massive difference in the displacement of these barriers, being hit by 1~2 ton machine with an extra 40kph.

If 60kph is the posted speed limit then its the limit, not really up to debate.
I don't agree with it and travel it every day.

PS I have driven through it a couple late evenings and there where works going on surprisingly
Thought I saw works one Sat, but maybe that was just machinery being moved.

doolox

Would be a great idea.

Many roads in Germany have a qualifier on speed limits derating by about 20kph in rainy conditions, "bei rogon".

Other countries switch off their traffic lights at night or adopt a flashing pattern, flashing green means you have priority and flashing red is treated like a stop sign. I call them part time traffic lights and they obviate the need to stand at reds on empty roads late at night which many people here just drift through, chancing it on. Not recommended as many drivers speed at night.

The fact that the horse boxes were travelling on a Sunday somewhat mitigates their speed although towed vehicles are limited to 80kph at all times but there were no workers present on a Sunday.

As far as I know trailers and their towing vehicles are also not allowed in the overtaking lane on Motorways which makes travelling behind a 60kph driver a bit of a bind.

garv123

Surely the speed limit should only be during work hours.

I've only driven that stretch 4 times, 4am, 2am 6am and 10pm and 60kph is madness at those times!

Other countries have electric speed signs that change depending on the time or weather.

creedp

Lord Nikon wrote: »

It's a great idea to see the speed limits and being enforced while the workers are there, but last time I checked, they don't do the works at night, or on weekends. Surely common sense would allow the limits to be relaxed during times where the construction works are not being done.

That's the problem .. the use of common sense is officially excluded from the decision making process .. its all about PR soundbites which is fed by the sizeable minority who always want to demonstrate that they are the best kids in the class. If all the people clambering to show that they are more concerned than anybody else about the safety of workers really felt that way they would also be clambering to remove the mad 60kmh speed limits for the majority of the time that workers are not actually on site.

However, that won't happen because of the fear of losing their top of the class status.

Kamili

Wailin wrote: »

Have you driven that stretch of road? You do realise the workers are protected by large steel barriers yes?

Not when (as happened with a truck) the truck traversed the barriers. he musta been going some speed.

dr.fuzzenstein

amcalester wrote: »

I bet 60 km/h is fast enough from the perspective of the workers.

60k is still too fast when a car hits you, this is why towns have a 50k speed limit.
I think it can be argued that even the chance of a single worker getting killed or injured is completely unacceptable.
For that reason it should be 30k. I don't see how anyone could argue against that.

Lord Nikon

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

60k is still too fast when a car hits you, this is why towns have a 50k speed limit.
I think it can be argued that even the chance of a single worker getting killed or injured is completely unacceptable.
For that reason it should be 30k. I don't see how anyone could argue against that.

Have you driven a car at 30km/h?

jimbis

I passed a rear ender crash on this stretch last Sunday, conveniently happened at the only spot I could see there was lads working. I'm guessing the driver got distracted by someone actually working on a Sunday :pac:.

I remember when the work was happening on the m50 I heard the reasoning behind the speed limit was the design of the barriers was only capable of that designated speed limit.

Dravokivich

Lord Nikon wrote: »

Have you driven a car at 30km/h?

I do everyday. it's not all that hard. Do you have an issue with doing so?

creedp

Dravokivich wrote: »

I do everyday. it's not all that hard. Do you have an issue with doing so?

Whatever about the argument of having a 30kmh speed limit in heavily populated urban centres where it is common to have cyclists using the same road space, multiple pedestrian crossings, young children playing, unprotected footpaths teeming with pedestrians who are within centimetres of moving traffic, IMO its a bit ridiculous to try and justify the implementation of a blanket 30kmh speed limit on a dual carriageway / motorway with no cyclists, pedestrian crossings, children at play and any with any workers protected by a substantial barrier.

dr.fuzzenstein

Dravokivich wrote: »

I do everyday. it's not all that hard. Do you have an issue with doing so?

So why not have countrywide 30. Surely getting road fatalities down to zero would warrant this?
Limit all vehicles and have massive enforcement.

McCrack

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So why not have countrywide 30. Surely getting road fatalities down to zero would warrant this?
Limit all vehicles and have massive enforcement.

Kevin Finnerty

They should have made it one lane temporarily. 80kmh all the way no overtaking.

V8 Interceptor

Jaysus Doc Fuzzenstein is joking!

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

doolox

I do not travel, nor do I intend to travel that accursed stretch of road if there are people who think it is sane to impose a 30 kph limit on people or a one lane restriction on what is a dual carrriageway.

I did enough travelling on the abortion that was the N1 northbound near the Airport 3 to 4 years ago and it was a nightmare trying to obey an 80 kph and at times a 60 kph limit on a Sunday when every other driver was pushing for 120 kph up your ass and by your side and trying to make bits of you, your spine, your car etc.....

To hell with that and to hell with the safety nazis who try and rob people trying to get to work doing what should be regarded as a normal speed on normal roads.

I am not going to be a safety martyr by getting hit by another road user who "wasn't paying attention" etc...probably drunk or on the phone but I end up in wheelchair with a broken back.........


No Thanks.

Dravokivich

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So why not have countrywide 30. Surely getting road fatalities down to zero would warrant this?
Limit all vehicles and have massive enforcement.

I'll second the motion if you put it forward.

But in all honesty, this is just argumentive bollox for the sake if ridiculing something somewhere, you don't agree with.

fullstop

jimbis wrote: »

I remember when the work was happening on the m50 I heard the reasoning behind the speed limit was the design of the barriers was only capable of that designated speed limit.

Also I'm pretty sure the lanes are narrower than standard lanes, which has to be allowed for.

V8 Interceptor

Dravokivich wrote: »

I'll second the motion if you put it forward.

I hope you're joking too

Damien360

Reading all the posts, I get the impression that vast majority have not driven this section.

It has 2 Lanes of traffic with a steel Armco barrier beside overtaking lane, an emergency lane inside this for ambulances and site traffic which never parks in this lane. Then it has the works. Same each side of the carriageway.

60kmph is too low. 80kmph is used all over UK and Germany. And very often they don't have the seperation of the emergency lane for protection.

Most of those observing low speeds (quite a few) stick between 60 and 80. A lot of others especially when it is quite will be doing 100.

The speed van will cause chaos. Christ, on 3 lane approach at Kill, a van on the other side causes a sudden stop. Bear in mind these people are seperated from the van by 6 lanes and an Armco. Guaranteed to be multiple daily accidents due to people at 60 braking hard to 30 passing the van.

screamer

60 kph is ok it's the distance it's enforced for that's too long. That's why the speed rises, people are running out of patience and why they need miles of stretches cordoned off is beyond me, there's parts with nothing going on...

DaveyDave

The Outer Ring Road in Dublin is 80kph. Steel barriers separating pedestrians from a 6 lane road. Is that a huge difference from the road works? Some sections of that road don't even have a barrier due to bus stops.

TallGlass

I think 60 is fairly reasonable for the stretch. The road condition isn't great for 80, high volume of traffic, quite narrow, heavy machinery might turn out, workers might accidently end up on the live strech, if it rains aqua planning is possible as road isn't finished to allow proper drainage. There quite alot of factors to take into consideration.

Damien360

TallGlass wrote: »

I think 60 is fairly reasonable for the stretch. The road condition isn't great for 80, high volume of traffic, quite narrow, heavy machinery might turn out, workers might accidently end up on the live strech, if it rains aqua planning is possible as road isn't finished to allow proper drainage. There quite alot of factors to take into consideration.

You haven't driven this have you ?

Nobody is going to fall into live lane as they are a whole lane away from any traffic and there is an Armco. It is not narrow at all. Granted heavy machinery turns in from overtaking lane. There will be no aqua planing as the main carriageway is using the existing finished roads. Drainage was never an issue on this road over many years and I haven't seen any flooding when we last had rain.

TallGlass

Damien360 wrote: »

You haven't driven this have you ?

Nobody is going to fall into live lane as they are a whole lane away from any traffic and there is an Armco. It is not narrow at all. Granted heavy machinery turns in from overtaking lane. There will be no aqua planing as the main carriageway is using the existing finished roads. Drainage was never an issue on this road over many years and I haven't seen any flooding when we last had rain.

I have driven it, what I consider and you consider and the next person is going to consider is going to be different. There's people paid to come up with speed limits. 60 is what they said. Above are some of the factors they take in along with other stuff.

Im saying 60 is reasonable for a few KM, what's it going to add over all? 10/15mins. Do 80 or 100 or 120 if you want.

What you have is people doing 50/60, some doing 80, then some doing 100. Which is the worst combination, people doing all sorts of speeds, then some happens. The driver doing 60 will stop quickly, person doing 100 behind them can't stop in time.

Anyway, isn't really a conversation to have over mobile. The main point was it isn't just workers that make the speed limit, some other factors decided to lower it to 60.

tabby aspreme

screamer wrote: »

60 kph is ok it's the distance it's enforced for that's too long. That's why the speed rises, people are running out of patience and why they need miles of stretches cordoned off is beyond me, there's parts with nothing going on...

There was work going on about an hour ago at the M7 M9 merge, you will see a lot more happening at that end over the coming weeks , once the hedge and wire rope are gone, it is hard to concentrate to keep at 60 for the full distance.

arsebiscuits82

As someone who had worked on these types of roads jobs before both in Belfast and Glasgow, here's my thoughts :

Both roads jobs I were on had a speed limit of 50mph. The main reason was due to works access in that you have a chance of pulling out into traffic especially in a truck. There was a 1.2m safety zone inside the barrier that you weren't allowed to work or stand in.

60kph is too low and hard to stick to. Yes it's a busy road but Glasgow was way worse than Kildare. We had a few small tips but nothing major.

In Belfast we had 1 bad accident that shut the motorway but this was down to, as we found out later a domestic of sorts in the car.the woman pulled the steering wheel and the car shot off dukes of hazard style over an embankment. It was some sight!

You can't really lift the limit on the road when nobody is working due to poor road markings lighting and very often changing layouts overnight. Most accidents were on a Monday morning or if we were doing any lifts midweek mostly by rubber neckers.

70kph would be a happy medium imho

FR85

Drive it every day from the Naas South and the 60 doesnt bother me, what does bother me are the artics, rigids and busses that stay on their limiters and come up behind you flashing and beeping. In the last week one bus and one rigid nearly took me clean out of it, 90% of cars and vans are keeping to the limit, its the trucks and busses that are bulling on.

Wailin

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So why not have countrywide 30. Surely getting road fatalities down to zero would warrant this?
Limit all vehicles and have massive enforcement.

Your not Shane Ross by any chance?

Damien360

Wailin wrote: »

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So why not have countrywide 30. Surely getting road fatalities down to zero would warrant this?
Limit all vehicles and have massive enforcement.

Your not Shane Ross by any chance?

You haven't come across the Doc before. That is sarcasm which makes a difference from the usual angry doc 😀

fullstop

Damien360 wrote: »

The speed van will cause chaos. Christ, on 3 lane approach at Kill, a van on the other side causes a sudden stop. Bear in mind these people are seperated from the van by 6 lanes and an Armco. Guaranteed to be multiple daily accidents due to people at 60 braking hard to 30 passing the van.

That's not really the fault of the speed van though, is it? Idiot drivers are the problem there. Same with deploying the speed vans to the roadworks - if everyone stuck under 100 it probably wouldn't have happened, but then some knobs can't help themselves bombing up there at 120 and 130kph.

creedp

Driving north on M1 he Airport after this pm and there is a short distance of resurfacing ongoing along where the ubiquitous 60kmh signs are in plentiful supply. No works were actually ongoing at the time and traffic was moving along at 100 to 120 kmh. The real problem though is that these 60kmh speed limit signs stretch for miles beyond the end of the works all the way up to Jn 9. This is pure madness.

What is the point of putting these signs in place on a motorway with no roadworks in place? This simply reinforces the practice of non adherence to speed limits as no one is going to comply with a 60kmh speed limit on a motorway as there is no practical reason to do so? Its bad enough restricting speed to 60kmh in the areas where works are being undertaken but its pretty Irish to place them along long stretches of motorway simply because works will take place over the next few weeks. The lads must have had a quiet Friday afternoon and thought shure we may as well kill a bit of time ...