Overcome by how Complicated it Is

D9Male

Any advice would be gratefully received.

So my wife and I have taken the plunge and gone sale agreed on a house in Dublin. For background, the house is around 150m squared. It is in relatively good nick, but we have a few things we would like to do to make it right before we move in.

We would like to get the downstairs reconfigured. Not too much really, just a new utility room, a few walls knocked down and a new kitchen. We would also like to increase the size of the ground level windows.

An architect friend who looked at the house with us advised that we should consider getting the roof on the 1 storey extension to the back fixed. We would probably like a sky light put in while we're at it.

We would like to replace the OFCH with gas.

We would like to patio around 3m x 6m in the garden at the back of the house and demolish the existing shed.

From a chat with our friend, and a quick google, we reckon that the work would cost between 60k and 100k, with 80k being a decent estimate. Our friend put us in touch with "a surveyor" who he says would be the right type of person for the job to keep an eye on costs.

We're meeting her soon, but in the mean time I have a few questions on the overall lie of the land in the industry as we're clueless. Basically, we want to make sure we ask the right questions when we meet the surveyor.

Where do the jobs begin and end between a builder, project manager, surveyor and architect in the context of a job this small? Can we just go with the surveyor and get her to do the plans and hire the builders or do we need to be more involved? We have a fair idea of what we want in broad strokes, but obviously I would be uncomfortable articulating this to a builder!

Will we have any difficulty getting a builder in Dublin for a job that size? Given we are hoping to get the keys in November, do we need to start getting on a builder's agenda now?

Is there anything else we should know? Like I said, we're completely clueless in this regard. Excited, but a little bit overwhelmed by how complicated the thing is.

Calahonda52

1: a 100k job is a lot more than "Not much really" and is not a small job unless you are one of the 1%
2: knocking out internal walls, if load bearing, will require specific engineering input & sign off: plenty on this forum about the steps.
3: increasing window sizes may require planning: experts here will tell you iff you specific the window aspects.
4: this window work may require more engineering input/signoff.
5: for the surveyor to " keep an eye on costs" she will require a detailed set of construction level plans which can be measured up and priced.
6: the more detailed the plans, the more control she will have and the less grief all round.
7: she may not be able to do the plans/ what role is the architect friend going to play?.
8: are you borrowing for this work: you may need sign off on stage payments, maybe not.
9: I believe you will have trouble getting a good builder in the current boom in Dublin within the time frame envisaged.
10: finally, is this work suitable for winter?

D9Male

That's all very helpful, thanks.

1. Yes, I guess I meant not much in the context of some of the other houses we were considering buying which needed way more work.

2. Ok, I was kind of aware of this but naively hoping someone would take control of this in the process.

3 and 4. Noted, thanks.

5-7. Our friend has offered that a junior lad from his office come round to draw up detailed plans of the house. He says these will make it a lot easier to plan work to your point. I am not sure if he or a surveyor would do the drawings for the new place.

9. This is what I feared. Any tips on how to get in the diary of someone good?

10. I don't know!

volchitsa

For having done a lot of work on our house, what you propose is major work. And the loadbearing wall is a huge part of that.

Calahonda has given you pretty clear advice (I'm not in RoI so wouldn't have anything different to add).

But I would say that if you can avoid knocking out load bearing walls, that will significantly reduce both the cost and the difficulty of changing the internal layout, so it might be worth thinking about other plans that follow the load bearing structure of the house before going for the "obvious" layout that you would choose if you had a blank sheet.

We adapted our plans so as to leave the main loadbearing wall in place, and I'm very happy with the result in the end. Sure, a single openplan room looks lovely, but it has disadvantages too - and you don't have a blank page. Have a think about whether it's possible to adapt (sometimes it's not, but even if the rooms are tiny, only one wall will be loadbearing.)

D9Male

Thanks volchista.

Just to be clear, I don't think we will be knocking down a load bearing wall. I had originally planned on one layout that would do this, but my buddy advised on a different layout that would not be as drastic. This was all subject to somebody having a look a the walls and the plan to make sure it makes sense. He was just opining from a 30 minute spin around the gaff.

We wouldn't be going for a full open plan. There would still be three main rooms downstairs.

volchitsa

Right that makes sense, D9 - I'd have been the same originally, mainly through not knowing what these different options imply in terms of cost and work. Luckily both my o/h and my dad had both done a lot of DIY themselves before that so were a lot more realistic than I'd have been!

Best of luck anyway, whatever you decide to go for.

Carrickbeg

Do loads and loads of research. And when you think you've enough done...do some more...second and third opinions etc...and dont put all you eggs in one basket...

Morini

Hello. Just throwing my opinion in:

(1) Our Quantity Surveyor did a very good job of estimating costs, based on a meeting with himself and the architect where we went through the plans in detail, describing exactly what we did/didn't want. We cut out a load of stuff the architect had included but we felt were not necessary. However, the QS seemed to assume that we were then going to pay additional for him to go through builder invoices etc on a monthly basis. These additional costs were significant, and were not agreed in advance, he just started sending bills. Once it became clear that we were not going to be milked, he was not heard from again.

I had planned to do this, but our very enthusiastic Architect took over, and did it all for me. He liked having control.

If you plan to do expense tracking yourself, you'll need to be very involved and very available.

(2) Don't fool yourself into thinking that it may be done on (or under) budget. make sure you have 10% available for unanticipated costs, and expect that this will be spent.

(3) Our architect used standard RIAI paperwork which stipulated payment timescales, penalties for late completion, and withholding a percentage for 12 months after completion. Thats essential, because otherwise your snagging may never be completed.

(4) Builders build. They don't restore and don't reuse. It can be a shock if you are not ready for the unholy mess they will make while working.

(5) And finally, if you'll excuse a minor rant, ...don't be surprised if someone at some point announces the house needs a full rewire at astronomical cost. As far as I can see, electricians love to tut-tut at any previous electrical work, and their solution is always to suggest a full rewire. Electricians and plasterboard don't mix. They are unable to mount sockets neatly, and are unable to cut correct sized holes for lighting: A filament bulb hanging from the centre of the ceiling is the best you'll get unless you have very clearly defined alternative requirements.

ace_irl

Morini wrote: »

(5) And finally, if you'll excuse a minor rant, ...don't be surprised if someone at some point announces the house needs a full rewire at astronomical cost. As far as I can see, electricians love to tut-tut at any previous electrical work, and their solution is always to suggest a full rewire. Electricians and plasterboard don't mix. They are unable to mount sockets neatly, and are unable to cut correct sized holes for lighting: A filament bulb hanging from the centre of the ceiling is the best you'll get unless you have very clearly defined alternative requirements.

You may need to consider a different electrician if that's the case. A lot of houses do need to be re wired. It's something that should be considered when taking into account the age of the house and what the wiring is currently like. My house isn't that old and it still needed to be re wired. Having a house re wired is a huge job. If you're already getting a lot of work done it can be easier and more practical to get it done then instead of waiting a few years. My dad recently re wired my friends house and I can guarantee every socket is fitted correctly and all recess lighting has also been fitted correctly with no incorrect sized holes. It sounds like you had a lazy electrician or you weren't clear enough on how you wanted it. The key is to very regularly check the progress of the work so you can discuss it and make sure everyone is on the same page. If you're not happy with the standard, hire a different electrician. Electrical work is too important to not be 100% satisfied with or too skimp on.

D9Male

Thanks all,

I had an electrician and plumber look at the house. The electrics are fine, but the radiators may need to be upgraded.

dusteeroads

D9Male wrote: »

The electrics are fine,.

RECI Cert . Or else I call BS.

D9Male

Thanks for the responses so far. One thing is still unclear.


Where do the jobs begin and end between a builder, project manager, surveyor and architect in the context of a job this size?

BryanF

Your builder is the project manager

Your arch engages the structural eng (&/or QS)

You provide clear brief/scope to arch

You meet arch first - they leave last