How to make sure trailer is rightly balanced.

CiniO

I have Ifor Williams BoxVan 84BV.
Single axle rated to 1400kg.

Towing car is 2006 Honda CRV 2.0 petrol.

Trailer when empty according to spec weights 515kg, so that leaves 885kg for load.

When trailer is empty, pressure on a towball is around 50kg.

My understanding is that it's crucial on single axle trailer to spread the load evenly. So how much pressure should be on a towball when trailer is fully loaded?
Car spec says it can take maximum 100kg on a towball.
But I wonder should it still be around 50kg, and that will mean load is spread evenly, or should that be more than 50kg?


Anyone with experience about that.

Thanks.

mgbgt1978

On a single axle Box trailer (such as the one you describe Cinio) I would prefer to have at least 70kg noseweight if the Trailer is fully loaded.
My concern is that a Box Trailer will have quite a bit of wind resistance, and at a steady 80km/h that wind resistance is focused more on the front upper half of the Trailer which will reduce the noseweight.

CiniO

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

On a single axle Box trailer (such as the one you describe Cinio) I would prefer to have at least 70kg noseweight if the Trailer is fully loaded.
My concern is that a Box Trailer will have quite a bit of wind resistance, and at a steady 80km/h that wind resistance is focused more on the front upper half of the Trailer which will reduce the noseweight.

Thanks. Never though of it, but it makes perfect sense.
I'll try to make it 70kg then.

BTW - how does that affect car carrying capacity.
I.e. according to manufacturers details car weights 1550kg (with full tank, etc).
D.G.V.W is 1990kg. so that leaves only 440kg for passengers and luggage.
But as I have towbar installed (that is 25kg on it's own) + 70kg noseweight of the trailer, is my undestanding good that it's already nearly 100kg of car carrying capacity reduced, so I can only load it up to 345kg (passengers + luggage) ?

mgbgt1978

Yes. I would agree with you.

But the Trailer noseweight would rarely be considered by most Guards as part of the DGVW.....unless they were determined to find a problem with you.:)

TrailerBob

Load balanced slightly forward of the axle... and heavy items low down... should be minimal visible strain on the rear suspension of the car, while the trailer shouldn't be easy to tilt off the hitch either. Don't get too hung up on precise noseweight as effectively measuring this is not easy. And make sure the load can't shift about too much. Your car is heavy enough to deal with that trailer, but not if the load is too far back.. you see those videos on YouTube of trailers snaking and turning over... 99 times out of 100 it's the reason why.

TrailerBob

PS, you don't count the nose weight in the GVW measurements as it is a measure of weight distribution, not train weight. It's there for stress on components and suspension, and control of vehicle.

Stoolbend

https://youtu.be/w1lqKQ2ODK8

V8 Interceptor

CiniO wrote: »

Thanks. Never though of it, but it makes perfect sense.
I'll try to make it 70kg then.

BTW - how does that affect car carrying capacity.
I.e. according to manufacturers details car weights 1550kg (with full tank, etc).
D.G.V.W is 1990kg. so that leaves only 440kg for passengers and luggage.
But as I have towbar installed (that is 25kg on it's own) + 70kg noseweight of the trailer, is my undestanding good that it's already nearly 100kg of car carrying capacity reduced, so I can only load it up to 345kg (passengers + luggage) ?

You're adding a non-existent 70 kilos there I reckon.

CiniO

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Yes. I would agree with you.

But the Trailer noseweight would rarely be considered by most Guards as part of the DGVW.....unless they were determined to find a problem with you.:)

All loaded now.
I managed to load about 850kg of stuff onto the trailer (moving house).
I tried loading evenly and nose weight is now 80kg. I think it should be good enough, considering towbar is rated to 100kg nose weight and also considering your advice regards wind drag.

I'm not that much concerned about garda checking all weights etc, but might be a bit by English police, German polizei or Polish policja as that's the direction I'm heading. 2500km to go. Wish me luck.

CiniO

TrailerBob wrote: »

PS, you don't count the nose weight in the GVW measurements as it is a measure of weight distribution, not train weight. It's there for stress on components and suspension, and control of vehicle.

Shouldn't be a problem anyway as car will have 200kg of passengers and 150kg of luggage nearly 100kg below maximum load.
Thanks.

Good luck!

Hope you have your paperwork for the trailer if you’re taking an Ifor Williams onto a ferry in the UK!

They tend to scrutinise them as theft of IW’s is such a problem.

CiniO

JayZeus wrote: »

Good luck!

Hope you have your paperwork for the trailer if you’re taking an Ifor Williams onto a ferry!

What paperwork do you mean?

And who would be possibly asking me for it - police??? Customs???

I don't have any as I bought trailer privately here in Ireland second hand

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

What paperwork do you mean?

Ifor Williams operate an owner database and a stolen trailer register. Change of ownerships are registered and it’s accessible to police and customs across the UK.

UK Customs almost always stopped me when I was exiting from the UK with an Ifor Williams trailer, especially if my car was an Irish reg. Police in Wales would also occasionally pull me over and had no interest in anything other than the trailer.

V8 Interceptor

1,500 miles? Pity it ain't a diesel you're hauling with OP.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

What paperwork do you mean?

And who would be possibly asking me for it - police??? Customs???

I don't have any as I bought trailer privately here in Ireland second hand

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/buying-a-trailer/show/i-am-thinking-of-buying-a-second-hand-trailer-what-should-i-look-out-for

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/trailer-registration/show/i-have-bought-a-used-trailer-how-can-i-re-register-it-in-my-name

CiniO

JayZeus wrote: »

Ifor Williams operate an owner database and a stolen trailer register. Change of ownerships are registered and it’s accessible to police and customs across the UK.

UK Customs almost always stopped me when I was exiting from the UK with an Ifor Williams trailer, especially if my car was an Irish reg. Police in Wales would also occasionally pull me over and had no interest in anything other than the trailer.

That's OK though.
I assume all what they do is to check trailer VIN number against database of stolen ones, and if my is not there, then they let me go.
Doesn't sound like too much bother.

CiniO

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

1,500 miles? Pity it ain't a diesel you're hauling with OP.

I prefer petrol

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

That's OK though.
I assume all what they do is to check trailer VIN number against database of stolen ones, and if my is not there, then they let me go.
Doesn't sound like too much bother.

Yup. As long as your trailer hasn’t been reported stolen anywhere in the UK or Ireland (same IWT database), you’re good to go. Are you moving back to PL permanently?

Safe travels dude!

Kristopherus

CiniO wrote: »

I prefer petrol

Hope you're not leaving for good. But best of luck and safe journey anyway.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

That's OK though.
I assume all what they do is to check trailer VIN number against database of stolen ones, and if my is not there, then they let me go.
Doesn't sound like too much bother.

Easy enough to steal a trailer and get onto the ferry before it's reported stolen. The UK police aren't like the Gardai, they do their job and if in doubt seize. You need proof that it's not stolen, not them proofing it's stolen.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

Easy enough to steal a trailer and get onto the ferry before it's reported stolen. The UK police aren't like the Gardai, they do their job and if in doubt seize. You need proof that it's not stolen, not them proofing it's stolen.

I think you're way off here.

Are you seriously saying I should have a proof I didn't steal it, and if not they'll automatically assume I did.
You must be joking.

They can't accuse me of stealing the trailer, until until they actually have suspicion I stole it, and they definitely can't prosecute for stealing it until they can prove I did.

IMO nonsense is what you're writing.

CiniO

JayZeus wrote: »

Yup. As long as your trailer hasn’t been reported stolen anywhere in the UK or Ireland (same IWT database), you’re good to go. Are you moving back to PL permanently?

Safe travels dude!

Kristopherus wrote: »

Hope you're not leaving for good. But best of luck and safe journey anyway.

Looks like I'm leaving for good. At least for a while. Family circumstances force to do so. Otherwise I would never even think about leaving place as beautiful as West of Ireland

Transporting wife and kids and stuff now, but I'll probably take another 2 months to move fully.

Thanks.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

I think you're way off here.

Are you seriously saying I should have a proof I didn't steal it, and if not they'll automatically assume I did.
You must be joking.

They can't accuse me of stealing the trailer, until until they actually have suspicion I stole it, and they definitely can't prosecute for stealing it until they can prove I did.

IMO nonsense is what you're writing.

Nah, you're on the wrong side of this argument Cinio.

You have a valuable trailer there and to be fair, unless you bought it from someone showing you the original purchase documentation, no real idea if it's stolen or not.

Nobody is saying you have stolen it, just that you won't have a leg to stand on if the police stop you and it turns out to be nicked.

Get onto IWT, give them the serial number and see about getting it registered in your name on their database. And hope it's not stolen.

Or bury your head in the sand. Whatever works for you. The police will keep checking trailers anyway, whether you're getting all uppity about it or not.

Safe travels.

V8 Interceptor

CiniO wrote: »

I prefer petrol

What you need is a TDI for this kinda job Cinio.

Del2005

CiniO wrote: »

I think you're way off here.

Are you seriously saying I should have a proof I didn't steal it, and if not they'll automatically assume I did.
You must be joking.

They can't accuse me of stealing the trailer, until until they actually have suspicion I stole it, and they definitely can't prosecute for stealing it until they can prove I did.

IMO nonsense is what you're writing.

You need to bring your VLC to prove that you own the car you are driving, why wouldn't you need documents to prove that you own the expensive trailer behind it.

They don't need a suspicion and they aren't accusing you of stealing it, they are asking you to prove it's legally yours. If they stop you and ask for documents and you don't provide what they want they'll keep you there till they are satisfied or else seize and wait for you to provide proof, while charging you recovery and storage fees.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

You need to bring your VLC to prove that you own the car you are driving, why wouldn't you need documents to prove that you own the expensive trailer behind it.

Because there's a law requiring registration of vehicles and law requiring even carrying registration cert with you when driving abroad.
No law like that in regards the trailer.

They don't need a suspicion and they aren't accusing you of stealing it, they are asking you to prove it's legally yours. If they stop you and ask for documents and you don't provide what they want they'll keep you there till they are satisfied or else seize and wait for you to provide proof, while charging you recovery and storage fees.

Still sounds strange to me.
I might be carrying some even more valuable things in the trailer or in the car, and I don't have a proof they are legally mine. I still don't see a problem.

mgbgt1978

Del2005 wrote: »

Easy enough to steal a trailer and get onto the ferry before it's reported stolen. The UK police aren't like the Gardai, they do their job and if in doubt seize. You need proof that it's not stolen, not them proofing it's stolen.

Are you honestly saying that the UK Police will seize all Trailers on the Roads unless the Driver (of the car obviously ) has proof of ownership with him ?
Total BS.

mgbgt1978

CiniO wrote: »

Looks like I'm leaving for good. At least for a while. Family circumstances force to do so. Otherwise I would never even think about leaving place as beautiful as West of Ireland

Transporting wife and kids and stuff now, but I'll probably take another 2 months to move fully.

Thanks.

Best of luck Cinio. Is there a Polish Version of Boards ?
If not, I see an opportunity for you .

mgbgt1978

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Are you honestly saying that the UK Police will seize all Trailers on the Roads unless the Driver (of the car obviously ) has proof of ownership with him ?
Total BS.

No. But if you're driving through the UK towing an Ifor Williams or Brian James type trailer, with foreign reg (I suspect Irish in particular will draw attention because of a certain minority), you just have to accept that some UK police forces will want to double check that the expensive trailer you're towing isn't reported as stolen.

To be honest, I'm glad of it. Without separate trailer registration and periodic inspections, the coppers doing spot checks is the only kind of deterrent, given that so many people seem quite happy to pick up a bargain on an expensive trailer without doing anything to verify that the trailer didn't disappear from a farmyard or lockup a few days prior.

Nobody here would recommend someone pay a grand for a car without a logbook and two sets of keys, but plenty would buy a trailer with no paperwork/receipts/history for the same amount (half what Westwood would ask for the same item according to many adverts) and wouldn't think twice about it. A shrug of the shoulders doesn't help the poor bastard who has to replace his nicked trailer. Happens all the time too, same with farm equipment and implements.

mgbgt1978

I didn't question your posts. But if you want to answer on behalf of somebody else then fire away.

As for the ethnic minority....most of them will be driving UK Reg Stuff anyway.

mgbgt1978

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

I didn't question your posts. But if you want to answer on behalf of somebody else then fire away.

As though I needed a nod from you.

If the UK police stops someone on the suspicion that the trailer they're towing is stolen, it's off to the pound it goes until they can confirm the details. What else are they supposed to do?

It's about time they required light trailer registration across the UK and Ireland anyway. No good reason against it really.

mgbgt1978

Big difference between 'suspicion that the trailer they're towing is stolen' (your post), and ' They don't need a suspicion'(Del2005's post).
I wouldn't be inclined to stick up for somebody who just posts BS, but that's your call.

Indricotherium

CiniO wrote: »

Towing car is 2006 Honda CRV 2.0 petrol.

Won't pull snow off a rope

TrailerBob

The suspicion that seems to be causing the discussion and some unnecessary worry for Cinio heading to Poland (not that we've always seen eye to eye!)... is just that.. suspicion.

3 lads in a transit with an empty trailer with no reg plate could be suspicious... a brand new horsebox behind a 20 year old dyna might look suspicious. A Honda CRV, with a family on board full of personal belongings, with a trailer that undoubtedly has all lights, and reg and everything else, loaded with all their stuff is not very suspicious at all.

I've done several UK trips with much more valuable trailers than the one here and the cops were not interested.

The only good advice here is to contact Ifor Williams, and get the paperwork for it for peace of mind.

V8 Interceptor

Indricotherium wrote: »

Won't pull snow off a rope

Bloke needs a diesel. He's gonna struggle all the way across Europe in that.

CiniO

It's a time for a bit of an update (even though it's been a while since I started this thread).

So journey went without any hassle.
I didn't have any trailer paperwork, as I was sure legally I don't need it.
I was even surprised they never stopped me at the customs as they seems to be taking most vans and camper vans on the side there in Holyhead same as in Harwich.
Supposably as TrailerBob said family with 2 kids with a box trailer didn't look suspicious.

Trailer was heavy weighting nearly it's maximum allowed 1400kg.
Car was OK pulling it, but I must say 150BHP coming from this 2.0 petrol engine seemed bit short on steeper inclines, especially in Wales and then in Germany on autobahn near Kassel.
In the end it was 1400kg trailer while car is rated to tow 1500kg, but I don't think manufacturers assume many people will be using that car to tow such trailer at the distance of nearly 2500km.

Generally speaking while I was travelling around 90km/h most of the journey, 5th gear didn't do, and I had to do it all in 4th (at around 3400rpm). On steeper inclines I had to reduce to third to keep the car going, and very often it still slowed down from 90km/h to 80km/h.
There was one or two cases where I actually had to reduce to 2nd to keep it going at 70km/h (around 6000rpm) as on 3rd it wouldn't budge and kept slowing down. You should have seen those trucks overtaking me on autobahn when I was doing 70km/h
Surprisingly when I was going faster like 110km/h for while, 5th gear was good enough as revs were above 3000rpm afair. 5th didn't work at 90km/h as revs were just too low to provide enough power for towing.

But in general, I still don't agree with V8 interceptor that I needed diesel.
Obviously I could keep lower revs in diesel car to keep going, but 150BHP is 150BHP, and on those hills my petrol CRV only managed to make 70km/h, diesel version with 150BHP wouldn't be any better.

Anyway - journey was quite enjoyable.

Average fuel consumption on the way came as 13.5 l/100km (around 21MPG) - which I think is pretty good considering whole set was very close to 3.5 tonnes.

V8 Interceptor

CiniO wrote: »

I still don't agree with V8 interceptor that I needed diesel.

Nah, what you needed was a V8 Interceptor