Taking noisy neighbour to the District Court

Kintarō Hattori

Hi Folks,

For 3 months now my partner, baby and myself have been woken up by our next door neighbour during the night. I don't think it's slanderous to say that she seems to be going through a mental health issue and at various times during the night, it could be 1am, 3am, 5am, 6am she goes through the house seemingly in a rage slamming all her internal doors very very hard indeed. She slams the front door, gets into her car, revs it for a prolonged period as if she's in a race and then goes off into the night. She's typically gone for about 30 mins and repeats the process in reverse when she gets back.

She's had a lot of stresses in the last few years which I'm guessing have become too much to deal with. From talking to her long time friend who lives opposite it seems like a serious issue in that she's supposedly put a hole in her living room wall, she's been seen driving at 10/20 kmph on the motorway/in our local town and has confessed to her that she does these things as she hears voices telling her to do so. Now I know we can't mention these in a court situation as it's just speculation and nothing has been medically confirmed, I'm just giving some background as to where it's come from.

We've lived beside her for 7 years never really having any problems. We evern shared our broadband with her for several years but stopped when she became very difficult in a parking dispute. My issue is that we're being consistently being woken up during the night due to her behaviour. We've tried to speak to her twice about it with no luck so I feel that we're left with no option but to take her to court and see if there's some way she might be bound to keep the peace at night.
It's been happening for 3 months. We had hoped it'd resolve itself initially, then hoped it'd stop after we spoke to her. So for the month of August we've taken video footage from our IP cameras of her leaving at the various times during the night and documented the hours and associated noise. It's on average every 2 days. My question is, how long do I need to keep this log to help try and ensure a court order against her? Typing this now she's been at t the whole night and although we're into 'civil' hours now she's slamming her doors continuously. It's really starting to take a toll on the health of the relationship between my partner and I.

For your information we live in a timber frame terrace on an estate. Normally over the course of the last 7 years we wouldn't have heard anything but with 'rage slamming' of the doors we can hear everything. Incidentally we're not the only people she's keeping awake at night and there's at least one other couple on the same terrace who will go to the district court with us.

NUTLEY BOY

In short, a log of the type mentioned would need to be maintained until the mater is disposed of finally in court.

Kintarō Hattori

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

In short, a log of the type mentioned would need to be maintained until the mater is disposed of finally in court.

I'm aware of that. My question is for how long I should be keeping one.

antodeco

Hi OP,
Do you plan on using your IP cameras recording in court?

You need to be very careful with this. If the cameras are pointing out away from your property, you need to be able to justify a legitimate reason for recording that part. Whilst, "crime prevention" is a legitimate reason, simply recording someone externally off your property can open a host of issues. Personally, I'd do the same, but be aware if you plan on using it as any form of evidence. My suggestion is to talk to your solicitor about the recordings.

Fann Linn

I took my neighbours to court in similar circumstances. I kept a diary for 4 months and during that time I noted every event or occurance ie, day, date, time and the nature of the noise, ie, loud music, slamming doors, dogs barking etc. I also on EVERY occurance rang my local Garda station and made the complaint to them. I then requested the Guards name who I was dealing with and asked if they would log my complaint in their station diary.

After 4 months I made my complaint to the local district court office and I served the notice on both my neighbours.

In short I presented my evidence and my neighbours were effectively bound to the peace for the next 6 months on foot of jail if they reoffended.
I never had any more problems after that.

Kevwoody

I remember your thread from before regarding the parking issue OP.
If you are renting, I'd move ASAP, life's too short to be putting up with crap like this

Kintarō Hattori

antodeco wrote: »

Hi OP,
Do you plan on using your IP cameras recording in court?

You need to be very careful with this. If the cameras are pointing out away from your property, you need to be able to justify a legitimate reason for recording that part. Whilst, "crime prevention" is a legitimate reason, simply recording someone externally off your property can open a host of issues. Personally, I'd do the same, but be aware if you plan on using it as any form of evidence. My suggestion is to talk to your solicitor about the recordings.

I don't plan on using them in court as from my limited understanding all that is needed is a log detailing the disruptions. It just happens that if confirmation were needed that she was leaving the house at these times, there's video evidence.

Just on the whole note of CCTV and IP cameras, that's something that's exploding at the moment and most people like myself bought them for legitimate reasons but could be falling afoul of the law I guess.

In my case they point out of an internal window towards my garden and where the car is parked in a public space right outside the house. Due to the wide angle nature of these cameras it takes in a lot more than just my front garden. The rear camera looks into my back garden again from a camera inside the house.

Kintarō Hattori

Kevwoody wrote: »

I remember your thread from before regarding the parking issue OP.
If you are renting, I'd move ASAP, life's too short to be putting up with crap like this

Yes she was one of the two ladies who caused some parking difficulties though she wasn't the main culprit. Whether you look at it as a good or bad thing, we bought here- so moving at the moment isn't really an option. The neighbour did the same so she's not likely to go anywhere anytime soon either.

Corca Baiscinn

OP I understand where you're coming from in wanting a court order to get ths woman to keeep the peace and let you have a night's sleep again and the other poster said it worked for them. I'd be worried though that if this woman is suffering from a mental illness as seems to be the case, she wont be capable of obeying a court order. Maybe it will push her to get some help. Has she any family or anybody concerned for her apart from her friend across the way? I really feel for you; the constant banging of our neighbour's unlatched wooden side- gate sets my teeth on edge and that's only when I'm in the garden, so being disturbed at night on a regular basis would drive me crazy.

Glass fused light

OP you have already been advised to make a complaint to the local Gardai on her driving. If she is telling people that she is hearing voices and acting on this you really need to speak to the local Gardai and make them aware of her behaviour. They have the power under the mental health act to take her into custody and have her seen by a doctor. I would if ask the neighbour who had this conversation would be willing to accompany you to the station to confirm the conversation. They may not be able to do anything if she reacts normally but if they know to ask the right questions she may end up getting the medical help she needs.

Keep a log of the noise etc and progress this in court, but you really should contact the Gardai ASAP too.

OldMrBrennan83

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

OP I understand where you're coming from in wanting a court order to get ths woman to keeep the peace and let you have a night's sleep again and the other poster said it worked for them. I'd be worried though that if this woman is suffering from a mental illness as seems to be the case, she wont be capable of obeying a court order. Maybe it will push her to get some help. Has she any family or anybody concerned for her apart from her friend across the way? I really feel for you; the constant banging of our neighbour's unlatched wooden side- gate sets my teeth on edge and that's only when I'm in the garden, so being disturbed at night on a regular basis would drive me crazy.

Whether she can or not isn't of concern though, she either will or be shipped out (all going well in court).

Glass fused light

Patww79 wrote: »

Whether she can or not isn't of concern though, she either will or be shipped out (all going well in court).

If the lady has a mental illness and had not got the mental capacity to obey the courts instructs she is not going to be shipped anywhere, but rather referred to the local health board.

Kintarō Hattori

Ok folks, I've got the court date, now I have to get the notice into my neighbours hands. I was thinking registered letter initially but she often won't open her door so a letter could go unsigned for. I was thinking about giving it to her when she returns from one of her night time trips.

Any suggestions?

Kintarō Hattori

Any advice?

randomrb

I'm assuming you don't have a solicitor, I don't want to be that guy but the law of nuisance can be a tricky enough area and cases are not that common, yu may want to consider engaging a solicitor

Kintarō Hattori

randomrb wrote: »

I'm assuming you don't have a solicitor, I don't want to be that guy but the law of nuisance can be a tricky enough area and cases are not that common, yu may want to consider engaging a solicitor

I did and no-one would get involved. I was continually told to take it to the district court unfortunately.

I gave them their notice today.... we'll see what happens.

Kintarō Hattori

So things haven't gotten any better. We were away on a family holiday and returned to being awoken 3 times last month. When heading to the district court, do people represent themselves or can you have a solicitor there? If you represent yourself, I suppose it's no harm heading to a solicitor and getting advice from them on how to present the documentation I've gathered over the last 3 months or so and what I can/can't say etc.

sexmag

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

So things haven't gotten any better. We were away on a family holiday and returned to being awoken 3 times last month. When heading to the district court, do people represent themselves or can you have a solicitor there? If you represent yourself, I suppose it's no harm heading to a solicitor and getting advice from them on how to present the documentation I've gathered over the last 3 months or so and what I can/can't say etc.

If youre willing to pay a solicitor for their time and advice I would advise stretching it and paying for them to represent you. Ignorance of your rights and laws is no excuse for wasting a judges time trying to put your point across and not being prepared or experienced on the matter

Kintarō Hattori

sexmag wrote: »

If youre willing to pay a solicitor for their time and advice I would advise stretching it and paying for them to represent you. Ignorance of your rights and laws is no excuse for wasting a judges time trying to put your point across and not being prepared or experienced on the matter

Every solicitor I rang, as soon as they heard it was a neighbour dispute they had no interest in taking it onboard.... and I called about 5 different companies.

Lmklad

Before going to court have a read of below.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/law_enforcement/anti_social_behaviour_by_adults.html

Your situation seems to be covered by part three “Significant or persistent impairment of their use or enjoyment of their property.”

It won’t cost you anything and may eventually provide a route to the courts but not at your expense. It may also allow appropriate authorities intervene if there are mental health issues.

Wanderer78

It sounds like mental health professionals are required fairly urgently for this situation, unfortunately there will more than likely be serious complications to do so. Best of luck op

Canis Lupus

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Every solicitor I rang, as soon as they heard it was a neighbour dispute they had no interest in taking it onboard.... and I called about 5 different companies.

Solicitors who DON'T want your money??? What madness is this??

Aoife179

Hi OP,

On your court date, you should speak to the Court clerk before the Judge comes out, explain that it’s a neighbourhood dispute & their may be sensitive issues involved. Ask is there a possibility for the Judge to hear the matter “in camera”, which means only you, neighbour, either parties legal reps & Court staff remain in courtroom for hearing.

District court Judges are extremely used to dealing with lay-litigants & will assist you through your evidence by asking questions or telling you what details they need to hear. It would definately assist to have someone from another household also suffering to give evidence also, to ensure that it’s clear the noisy neighbour is the issue & you’re not just some crank!

For evidence, keep it very concise, write bullet points beforehand such as (I) bought house on x date, (2) during years x-y had good relationship & (3) Tell Judge when problems started, you’ve kept a log since & typical behaviour experienced. I wouldn’t give an opinion as to the reasons (ie mental health) unless the Judge asks you specifically. No doubt he/she will ask the noisy neighbour anyway. Just be concise & steady-no aggressive rants!! The noisy neighbor could also have gathered some complaints from others about you, so don’t lose the rag if any dirt gets thrown-again Judges are v used to all this!

Solicitors don’t want to get involved as these disputes can ramble on for years & the law can only do so much to resolve them.

Best of luck with it!

Kintarō Hattori

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Solicitors who DON'T want your money??? What madness is this??

Honestly. The most talkative one told me it could go on for years, go nowhere and I'd be down €5000 with no result. He literally said, 'I don't want to take your money as it won't achieve anything'.

STB.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

For 3 months now my partner, baby and myself have been woken up by our next door neighbour during the night. I don't think it's slanderous to say that she seems to be going through a mental health issue and at various times during the night, it could be 1am, 3am, 5am, 6am she goes through the house seemingly in a rage slamming all her internal doors very very hard indeed. She slams the front door, gets into her car, revs it for a prolonged period as if she's in a race and then goes off into the night. She's typically gone for about 30 mins and repeats the process in reverse when she gets back.

She's had a lot of stresses in the last few years which I'm guessing have become too much to deal with. From talking to her long time friend who lives opposite it seems like a serious issue in that she's supposedly put a hole in her living room wall, she's been seen driving at 10/20 kmph on the motorway/in our local town and has confessed to her that she does these things as she hears voices telling her to do so. Now I know we can't mention these in a court situation as it's just speculation and nothing has been medically confirmed, I'm just giving some background as to where it's come from.

They shouldn't be driving a car if this type behaviour is regularly going on, especially if that bolded part is true. It is a criminal offence to carry on driving after you become aware that you are not fit to do so. “Awareness” can be your own awareness – that is, things you notice yourself without being diagnosed by a doctor. Call the Gardai the next time she goes for an early morning/night time drive. People with mental health issues and not taking medication are a danger to themselves and other road users. ( Sections 32 and 48 of the Road Traffic Act 1961)

FLAC have a PDF for all the help its worth. You may have already read it.

FLAC wrote:

In most cases, making a complaint about a noisy neighbour is a civil matter as opposed to a criminal matter and there is no need for the involvement of the Gardaí. However, if the noise goes beyond being an annoyance and the neighbour’s behaviour causes fear, danger, injury or loss, then it becomes ‘anti-socialbehaviour’.


There are a wider range of remedies available if this is the case. What you can do to stop anti-social behaviour depends on whether your neighbour owns his or her own home, is a tenant under the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 or is living in Local Authority Housing. In all of these cases, it is the responsibility of the person making the complaint to seek help and to resolve the matter before resorting to a formal process. In some cases, you will be asked to prove that you have done this, so keep a record of any engagement with neighbours or landlords with this in mind.

https://www.flac.ie/download/pdf/neighbour_disputes.pdf

Fann Linn

Aoife179 wrote: »

Hi OP,

On your court date, you should speak to the Court clerk before the Judge comes out, explain that it’s a neighbourhood dispute & their may be sensitive issues involved. Ask is there a possibility for the Judge to hear the matter “in camera”, which means only you, neighbour, either parties legal reps & Court staff remain in courtroom for hearing.

District court Judges are extremely used to dealing with lay-litigants & will assist you through your evidence by asking questions or telling you what details they need to hear. It would definately assist to have someone from another household also suffering to give evidence also, to ensure that it’s clear the noisy neighbour is the issue & you’re not just some crank!

For evidence, keep it very concise, write bullet points beforehand such as (I) bought house on x date, (2) during years x-y had good relationship & (3) Tell Judge when problems started, you’ve kept a log since & typical behaviour experienced. I wouldn’t give an opinion as to the reasons (ie mental health) unless the Judge asks you specifically. No doubt he/she will ask the noisy neighbour anyway. Just be concise & steady-no aggressive rants!! The noisy neighbor could also have gathered some complaints from others about you, so don’t lose the rag if any dirt gets thrown-again Judges are v used to all this!

Solicitors don’t want to get involved as these disputes can ramble on for years & the law can only do so much to resolve them.

Best of luck with it!

100% with this as one who went theough this process myself successfully.

My template for presenting the log was: Day, Date, Time, Place, I saw, I heard, I did.

For example:
' Judge, on the 16 May 2018 @ My Place at 02.30 I heard an awful lot of noise coming from the adjoinong house. The noise appeared to be loud music, dogs barking and doors slamming.

I knocked at the door to try and speak to my neighbour but I got no answer.
I then rang Carrck Garda station and spoke to Gda Tom Jones and reported this incident'.
They did or didn't call out.'

I presented every entry of my diary in this way consecutively to the court, approx 3 months of entries,and during the hearing the judge would ask me various questions, ie did my neighbours work, had I kids in my family, how did it impact my family, as in upset kids, wife unwell etc etc.

He then asked to look through my diary and he commented on the fact I rang the Gardai on x amount times., and he asked did I write the entries as the disturbances occured etc?

The judges understand you are a lay person and they don't expect you to be Petrocelli. I visited my local court a few times prior to my hearing to find out where the stand is, what the procedures are, where do I sit . Basic points which I had covered prior to my hearing which although only small points, gave me the time to concentrate on my own evidence rather than being flustered by my surroundings.

If you meet the court clerk prior to your hearing or even well before she/he will assit you.
Good luck and again if I can be of any further help don't hesitate to PM me.

wexie

STB. wrote: »

People with mental health issues and not taking medication are a danger to themselves and other road users. ( Sections 32 and 48 of the Road Traffic Act 1961)

That's one hell of a generalization...

STB.

wexie wrote: »

That's one hell of a generalization...

Wexie.

You cannot just selectively quote a line in isolation. I clearly stated the context I was referring to as applying to the bolded parts provided by the OP. Anyone who is behaving as erratically as the OP has outlined would be of concern to AGS for their own safety and other road users.

I have no issue with people with mental health issues driving or otherwise once they are capable of doing so. Many people do so everyday.

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Safe-driving/Medical-Issues/

Kintarō Hattori

OK Folks,

We're getting closer to the date so I've been ringing around trying to find a solicitor that I can go into for a consultation and it's proving hard to find someone. The one whom I thought would take it on is seemingly too busy so I'm back to square one.
They did mention that as I served the form myself that I'd need something called a Form 10:2... a declaration of service. I had a look but can't seem to find it. I need to fill that out and get it stamped by a solicitor.

In regards to the court date itself, I know you don't need a solicitor for it but are you allowed have a solicitor represent you. Would that be a wise/unwise move? I'd like to try to make the point that I'm taking it very seriously- to the level that I've paid for a solicitor when it's not actually necessary. Oh and what would it likely cost to have someone represent me in court?

BaronVon

http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/53bd32841fc5bbf280256d2b0045bb5d/c54a1e50e4f387918025764f00594494?OpenDocument

That's the form for personal service, 10.2 is for service by registered post. Needs to be lodged with the Courts office 4 days (I think) before the court date.

sexmag

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Oh and what would it likely cost to have someone represent me in court?

No gurantees but it might be worth a shot heading down to the court house and see if you can see a solicitor working a couple of cases and ask them to rep you on your chosen date.

Costs depend from solicitor to solcitior but i know in family court one cost 450 plus VAT

Kintarō Hattori

So, she was a no show at court. The judge said I'd be notified of a new date and that he'd issue a bench warrant for her.

This has been several weeks ago now, should I call the office of the district court and find out when our new date is? How do I go out finding when this is. Do I get a letter?

Kintarō Hattori

Got it sorted, the Gardai called a while back and after a few attempts they took her away. She had been as quiet as a mouse for almost a week but started back again last night being noisy. The next day in court can't come soon enough.

STB.

@ Kintaro....There was a similar case in Balbriggan DC a few weeks back......I was thinking of your thread when I read it!

The judge compelled the noise maker to comply with Section 108 (3) of the Environment Protection Act OR imprisonment.

>>>>

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/noisy-neighbour-created-living-hell-for-residents-37494685.html

Kintarō Hattori

STB. wrote: »

@ Kintaro....There was a similar case in Balbriggan DC a few weeks back......I was thinking of your thread when I read it!

The judge compelled the noise maker to comply with Section 108 (3) of the Environment Protection Act OR imprisonment.

>>>>

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/noisy-neighbour-created-living-hell-for-residents-37494685.html

Thanks for that, I spoke with the chap who brought the case and he was very helpful.

Kintarō Hattori

So just to update people on this. I managed to secure a court order against the neighbour that the noise emanating from her home should be normal household noise and nothing else. The issue had been going on for nearly a year and we first went to court in October 2018.
When it seemed that threats of fine and imprisonment wasn't enough the judge decided to move a hearing to a different court where audio/video evidence could be shown. On the day she presented a letter to the court which she had given to me just the day previous. It wasn't the first time she had handed up something with no prior notice so the judge decided that she needed to have legal advice and someone to represent her as she didn't understand the severity of what she was facing. So it was put on hold for a further six weeks.

I then decided that I'd be best to have a solicitor represent me as she would have the same. I asked around and word came back of a particularly good solicitor. They agreed to represent me and they pushed for a court order as this was something which was enforceable. The judge granted the order which has been in effect now for a few weeks.

Graham

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

The judge granted the order which has been in effect now for a few weeks.

Has it had the desired effect?

Kintarō Hattori

Graham wrote: »

Has it had the desired effect?

So far...... no. But it's a start to getting the issue resolved. I've made an appointment with the solicitor to see what the next stage is, how long the breaking of the order can last, whether it needs to be multiple issues before we can do something about it etc.

Graham

Thanks for sharing the process Kintarō Hattori.

It's a subject that's come up a few times recently so I'd imagine you have a few avid followers on this thread.

ED E

Taking your OP as it stands this person is very very mentally unwell. The threat of court action seems not to moderate her behavior. If being picked up on the bench warrant didn't do it then the same again for breaching that order will do what?

It sounds like you're headed towards a slow process that will result in a short custodial sentence which will likely translate to a few hours in a holding cell and then a bus ticket home. Maybe a few nights quiet then back to status quo.


Love to hear from the professionals here why I'm wrong. Or if this comes anywhere close to qualifying for action under mental health grounds.

Credit Checker Moose

I seriously doubt it would pass the very high bar for involuntary admission to a mental health facility.

That is likely to happen is a series of custodial sentences giving a few days respite and back to the normal behaviour.

Kintarō Hattori

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

I seriously doubt it would pass the very high bar for involuntary admission to a mental health facility.

That is likely to happen is a series of custodial sentences giving a few days respite and back to the normal behaviour.

Does this just go on and on? Where does a line get drawn in the sand to say that this is having a catastrophic effect on the lives of the neighbours? Is the only realistic option open to the neighbours that of moving?

Graces7

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Does this just go on and on? Where does a line get drawn in the sand to say that this is having a catastrophic effect on the lives of the neighbours? Is the only realistic option open to the neighbours that of moving?

This is a hard one indeed. I have moved several times for various reasons and once it was because of excessive use of a crowbanger night and day and nothing could be done apparently. I tried the council, the gardai..

After that i always asked about crowbangers before I took a place

see

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/courts/the-crow-banger-would-wake-the-dead-and-was-going-off-for-30-years-jury-in-murder-trial-hears-37426951.html

re the catastrophic effects .

Kintarō Hattori

Question for you folks.

When we went to court to get the court order I had asked our solicitor to see if we could get costs awarded. The judge ruled no, the solicitor telling me afterwards that the judge had felt it'd be impossible to collect as she's on a widow pension. That's fair enough, costs weren't important as such, it just would have been nice.

Three weeks after the case she arrives home in a new 191 SUV which while I'm not privy to her financial details, I can't imagine is on finance. It seems like a kick in the teeth really. Can I seek costs or is it just something I need to forget?

Credit Checker Moose

If the judge says no costs, then you are goosed.

Even if you were to get costs, you would have to go through debt collection to collect. This all takes a lot of time and money. If she has ignored your initial court case she will ignore the debt collection case too. Good money after bad.

celt262

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Question for you folks.

When we went to court to get the court order I had asked our solicitor to see if we could get costs awarded. The judge ruled no, the solicitor telling me afterwards that the judge had felt it'd be impossible to collect as she's on a widow pension. That's fair enough, costs weren't important as such, it just would have been nice.

Three weeks after the case she arrives home in a new 191 SUV which while I'm not privy to her financial details, I can't imagine is on finance. It seems like a kick in the teeth really. Can I seek costs or is it just something I need to forget?

Is it Electric? Would help with noise reduction if it is.

Kintarō Hattori

celt262 wrote: »

Is it Electric? Would help with noise reduction if it is.

Ha no, it's diesel. Thankfully the days of her revving like a lunatic are mostly behind her.

irish_bhoy82

Hi, Interested to know how this faired out in the end. Im in a similar position now myself.

Thanks

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/110491279#Comment_110491279

Also interested in knowing how this faired out.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121178495#Comment_121178495

It worked out in our favour. We kept a detailed log, we had CCTV recordings with audio, I had also bought a specialised audio recorder to pick up noise in the house (Teac DR-O5) and we were lucky enough to have some neighbours write letters of support stating there was an issue. A court order was issued and it's been relatively quiet ever since.

Comer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183763#Comment_121183763

Genuinely delighted to hear this👍️