can the postal system survive

the_pen_turner

they are going closing loads of post offices all around the country.
im sure a few were not really neaded but the majority will be a big loss the the areas.

do you think the post office and postal system is going to survive

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

I can't remember the last time I needed to use a post office.

With communications and services increasingly delivered online, and packages delivered by private couriers, why do we need a state-funded postal service? Why are closures of these unnecessary offices always described as a "great loss to the community"?

jjbrien

Mohammed Attractive Serpent wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I needed to use a post office.

With communications and services increasingly delivered online, and packages delivered by private couriers, why do we need a state-funded postal service? Why are closures of these unnecessary offices always described as a "great loss to the community"?

There are some towns and villages in Rural Ireland that the banks have also closed and older people use the post office to get their pension and do their banking. My dad being one of them and he keeps going on about saving the local post office. He lives in Kilbeggan so would have to go to Mullingar or Tullamore to use a post office.

Me i do most of my stuff online id only use a post office or bank branch once or twice a year.

Mrs OBumble

How many letters have you posted recently, caller?

seamus

People still need stuff. There is a thriving and growing postal system, it's just delivering more packages than letters.

The problem with An Post is that they've failed to identify the trends in the market and seize them and be open to them. Services like Parcel Motel launched five years before An Post got the finger out and delivered an expensive and worse solution.

They still won't get it. A national postal service will always be needed, but eventually it'll be a subsidised niche thing that very few people use. All of the other crap bundled into post offices; billy paying, pensions, etc; can be done anywhere. They don't need a post office.

Cabaal

The postal system will of course survive, with so much services moving online people still need physical items delivered and somebody has to do this.

However, local post offices is another matter and people need to think long and hard about the importance of them in their community (and they are important social hubs) especially for older people.

My dad was at the post office a few years back and was talking to a women who said "did you know you can get your pension paid into your bank account now, would save Q'ing here". My dad replied "but if we all do that, we may not have a post office.

He's right.

o1s1n

I would imagine most post from online shopping still goes standard post, no?

Any time I collect post from my local an post depo it seems to be jammed with packages from Amazon and the likes.

Cabaal

Mohammed Attractive Serpent wrote: »

I can't remember the last time I needed to use a post office.

With communications and services increasingly delivered online, and packages delivered by private couriers, why do we need a state-funded postal service? Why are closures of these unnecessary offices always described as a "great loss to the community"?

A number of reasons, take my local one.

BOI are in the town but they have stopped dealing in any cash...full stop.
The Post Office on the other hand provides Ulster Bank & AIB banking services and allows use of cash. If we lost the post office this means everyone would need to travel 10miles to deal with cash in a bank.

Post Offices are very important social hubs and important for news and keeping an eye on people. if for example Mary collects her pension every week and the suddenly doesn't show up the people in the local post office are likely to notice this and may follow up with somebody to see if they've seen Mary and is she ok.

if Mary gets her pension paid into a bank account and doesn't use it...nobody will notice.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

jjbrien wrote: »

There are some towns and villages in Rural Ireland that the banks have also closed and older people use the post office to get their pension and do their banking. My dad being one of them and he keeps going on about saving the local post office. He lives in Kilbeggan so would have to go to Mullingar or Tullamore to use a post office.

Me i do most of my stuff online id only use a post office or bank branch once or twice a year.

You're right that post offices are often used, frequently by older people, to collect state benefits or to do banking transactions. But in those cases they're just operating as extensions of social welfare offices and banks, not as post offices. Surely people can have their benefits deposited into their bank accounts, and the banks themselves can provide better networks of branches and ATMs.

As this older generation die off, the last remaining rationale for keeping post offices will disappear.

Turnipman

jjbrien wrote: »

There are some towns and villages in Rural Ireland that the banks have also closed and older people use the post office to get their pension and do their banking. My dad being one of them and he keeps going on about saving the local post office. He lives in Kilbeggan so would have to go to Mullingar or Tullamore to use a post office.

Why not Moate?

Anyhow, there isn't much chance of Kilbeggan PO being closed for the forseable future.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Cabaal wrote: »

The Post Office on the other hand provides Ulster Bank & AIB banking services and allows use of cash. If we lost the post office this means everyone would need to travel 10miles to deal with cash in a bank.

But surely that's a problem with inadequate banking services, rather than a rationale for keeping post offices open? Additionally, having the post office be the only facility locally that deals with cash will only make it a magnet for robbers, even though many of them have minimal security.

Post Offices are very important social hubs and important for news and keeping an eye on people. if for example Mary collects her pension every week and the suddenly doesn't show up the people in the local post office are likely to notice this and may follow up with somebody to see if they've seen Mary and is she ok.

I take your point ... but surely the same thing could be said of local shops, neighbours, etc. Plus, there are plenty of Marys who do have their pension direct deposited, and this will probably become the default in the years ahead.

Duff

I hope so. I've a serious addiction of buying shíte on Aliexpress and I love the surprise of it arriving 6 months later after I've forgotten about it.

ohnonotgmail

seamus wrote: »

People still need stuff. There is a thriving and growing postal system, it's just delivering more packages than letters.

The problem with An Post is that they've failed to identify the trends in the market and seize them and be open to them. Services like Parcel Motel launched five years before An Post got the finger out and delivered an expensive and worse solution.

They still won't get it. A national postal service will always be needed, but eventually it'll be a subsidised niche thing that very few people use. All of the other crap bundled into post offices; billy paying, pensions, etc; can be done anywhere. They don't need a post office.

where?

Turnipman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

where?

Sitting in front of one's laptop or desktop.

ohnonotgmail

Turnipman wrote: »

Sitting in front of one's laptop or desktop.

I must not be looking hard enough for the slot that dispenses cash.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

fattymuatty

I post about 15-20 packages every week, an post provide a good price for international postage and it is pretty fast too. If our local post office closed it would be a major pain for me. It's always pretty busy when I go in.

ohnonotgmail

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm pretty sure i heard that 5 years ago as well.

Turnipman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I must not be looking hard enough for the slot that dispenses cash.

But the post that you quoted made no reference to cash. But perhaps you didn't look hard enough to see that either!

Cabaal

Mohammed Attractive Serpent wrote: »

You're right that post offices are often used, frequently by older people, to collect state benefits or to do banking transactions. But in those cases they're just operating as extensions of social welfare offices and banks, not as post offices. Surely people can have their benefits deposited into their bank accounts, and the banks themselves can provide better networks of branches and ATMs.

As this older generation die off, the last remaining rationale for keeping post offices will disappear.

Why would banks roll out more ATM's when they are already changing branches to cashless and they are pushing for more and more payments to be cashless.

A better network of branches and ATM's simply won't be happening.

seamus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

where?

Newsagents, online, etc.

Cabaal

Mohammed Attractive Serpent wrote: »

But surely that's a problem with inadequate banking services, rather than a rationale for keeping post offices open? Additionally, having the post office be the only facility locally that deals with cash will only make it a magnet for robbers, even though many of them have minimal security.

I'm not aware of post offices being robbed weekly...are you?

banks are switching to staff less and cashless more and more as part of money saving, its nothing to do with providing better customer service or a better customer experience. if banks cared about customer's they'd be open later and at weekends with staff for the last few decades.

Rather then provide services for people that need them via post Offices the solution is to stop offering these services...that doesn't seem smart,

ohnonotgmail

seamus wrote: »

Newsagents, online, etc.

OAPs should pick their pension up in a newsagents? So the newsagent would need the same IT system currently in place in post offices. You haven't really done away with post offices then, just moved them next door in a lot of smaller towns.

BrianBoru00

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No it won't.

If there was any foresight or ambition in the civil service/ government there would remain a single public services office preferably attached / co located with the local school. There you could have postal service / garda desk / doctors surgery and possibly even a local shop which would (1) satisfy one of the reasons for closure (wasted resources) and (2) have a social hub in villages and towns with footfall on a daily basis and (3) have garda presence in the location at least some hours daily even if its just a 30 minute window five days a week for example.

seamus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

OAPs should pick their pension up in a newsagents? So the newsagent would need the same IT system currently in place in post offices. You haven't really done away with post offices then, just moved them next door in a lot of smaller towns.

Most newsagents will do cash back. If someone really, really, doesn't want their pension deposited in a bank account, maybe they should have the option of a debit card that allows them to spend their pension directly?

This is an old, tired and ultimately baseless argument that anachronistic processes should be held onto for the sake of "OAPs".

Old people are perfectly capable of using cards, of doing stuff online and using new technology. My mother is an OAP and doesn't stop sending bloody whatsapps.

Tradition is the main reason they do it; as per Cabaal's anecdote. People still queuing in the post office, and clinging onto it just so they can continue to queue.

ohnonotgmail

seamus wrote: »

Most newsagents will do cash back. If someone really, really, doesn't want their pension deposited in a bank account, maybe they should have the option of a debit card that allows them to spend their pension directly?

This is an old, tired and ultimately baseless argument that anachronistic processes should be held onto for the sake of "OAPs".

Old people are perfectly capable of using cards, of doing stuff online and using new technology. My mother is an OAP and doesn't stop sending bloody whatsapps.

Tradition is the main reason they do it; as per Cabaal's anecdote. People still queuing in the post office, and clinging onto it just so they can continue to queue.

So your alternative is to force people to go cashless?

Dravokivich

It better. Every time I've to send something to a civil servant it's via post. I've also got to send a form to my insurer via post too.

Turnipman

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

No it won't.

If there was any foresight or ambition in the civil service/ government there would remain a single public services office preferably attached / co located with the local school. There you could have postal service / garda desk / doctors surgery and possibly even a local shop which would (1) satisfy one of the reasons for closure (wasted resources) and (2) have a social hub in villages and towns with footfall on a daily basis and (3) have garda presence in the location at least some hours daily even if its just a 30 minute window five days a week for example.

And, while you're at it, why not co-locate the local bookies, brothel, pub, hairdresser, undertaker and church too?

Maybe we could describe the small cluster of service providers as a "village"?

seamus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So your alternative is to force people to go cashless?

Nobody's being "forced" to go cashless. If they want cash, they can go and withdraw it somewhere.

Why should the state be forced to maintain and pay for archaic delivery systems because some people like queuing in a post office?

Dravokivich

seamus wrote: »

Nobody's being "forced" to go cashless. If they want cash, they can go and withdraw it somewhere.

Why should the state be forced to maintain and pay for archaic delivery systems because some people like queuing in a post office?

It's because the state require it themselves.

jjbrien

seamus wrote: »

Most newsagents will do cash back. If someone really, really, doesn't want their pension deposited in a bank account, maybe they should have the option of a debit card that allows them to spend their pension directly?

This is an old, tired and ultimately baseless argument that anachronistic processes should be held onto for the sake of "OAPs".

Old people are perfectly capable of using cards, of doing stuff online and using new technology. My mother is an OAP and doesn't stop sending bloody whatsapps.

Tradition is the main reason they do it; as per Cabaal's anecdote. People still queuing in the post office, and clinging onto it just so they can continue to queue.

Could just replace giving out social welfare payments via the post office by installing an ATM like machine in a local shop that dispenses the pension each week. To be honest most of what the post office does could be replaced with a machine. We have those post office kiosk things could easly add a cash dispensing thing to them and use the public services card with a pin number or facial recognition

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm not aware of post offices being robbed weekly...are you?

Post offices are fairly common targets for armed robbers. I didn't say anything about "weekly," but it's well known that these facilities often have large amounts of cash on hand and minimal security.

banks are switching to staff less and cashless more and more as part of money saving, its nothing to do with providing better customer service or a better customer experience.

A bank's savings from going cashless are derived largely from not having to pay security costs relating to transporting and storing cash. If they are foisting those costs off on the state, via the post offices, surely that needs to be looked it.

Rather then provide services for people that need them via post Offices the solution is to stop offering these services...that doesn't seem smart,

The solution would be to offer these services in different ways. Banking services should be provided by banks. Social welfare payments can be delivered electronically. There are many private couriers that deliver packages -- we don't need a state-subsidized competitor in that same space.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Graces7

seamus wrote: »

Nobody's being "forced" to go cashless. If they want cash, they can go and withdraw it somewhere.

Why should the state be forced to maintain and pay for archaic delivery systems because some people like queuing in a post office?

I live in a remote place and will only use An Post for anything I buy online. They know the address and have regular deliveries without the hassle of phone calls etc. I send stuff overseas and good rates.

Nothing archaic about delivery services with An Post .... couriers get lost in rural areas! Used to have to talk them in on the phone and even then things would get dumped in fields

seamus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So your alternative is to force people to go cashless?

Sorry, I know I'm double-quoting here, but just curious:

Why is withdrawing cash at a post office counter superior to withdrawing it from an ATM, or getting cashback from a newsagents?

GarIT

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So your alternative is to force people to go cashless?

I'm not the poster you were replying to but I do think there should be a tax on collection pensions in person given that their is a cost to the labour but it could be automatically deposited into an account.

Cash is expensive to maintian, there should be a 1% tax on all cash transactions to fund the creating and maintaining of cash. Personally I keep €50 in my wallet, I have to replenish that 4-6 times a year I can't understand why anyone would choose to use cash over electronic payments unless they are trying to hide from revenue.

PandaPoo

The only thing I've posted in the last 6 months is a letter from the child benefit people wondering if my circumstances have changed.

Other than that I never use post offices or even post boxes. How much is a stamp these days? It was 70c when I sent my wedding invites 4 years ago I think.

Uriel.

Of course post offices will survive, even when they really shouldn't
Politicians will continue to invent ways of wasting money and throwing it at An Post.

See the latest from Minister Jim Daly

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/post-vans-may-deliver-water-and-meals-861758.html

Post vans could be stocked with bottled water to be handed out to elderly and vulnerable people impacted by the continuing drought.

Discussions are also ongoing around expanding the services An Post provides to include the delivery of meals-on-wheels, prescriptions, and some groceries.

The Government is keen to take advantage of the An Post network which delivers approximately two million items per day to 2.1 million residential and commercial addresses.

Extending the services An Post provides would also help sustain the network, whichcould see the closure of 100 post offices this year.

With a hosepipe ban expected to remain in place until October in the east and south of the country, Department of Health officials have met with An Post to utilise its valuable network of postmen and postwomen who are often aware of people most in need.

Minister of State for older people, Jim Daly, who first approached An Post with the idea of delivering water to elderly and vulnerable people in rural areas, said: “We must realise that we have a world-class network of a daily delivery service to every household in Ireland but we as consumers are not choosing to post our correspondence as often as we used to.”

A spokesperson for An Post said: “We’ll certainly help out if called upon to provide fresh bottled water to residents, alongside their mail, in areas affected by water shortages.”

Bottled water, seriously? This is what we are wasting money. It's hardly a drought and what in God's name does the hosepipe ban got to do with drinking water. Is it suggested that OAPs are dying of thirst because they can't go out into the garden guzzle down water from the hose?

It's painful stuff, and this is why State bodies that don't get with the times are allowed to continue and be funded by the taxpayer for poor and unnecessary service.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Graces7 wrote: »

Nothing archaic about delivery services with An Post .... couriers get lost in rural areas! Used to have to talk them in on the phone and even then things would get dumped in fields

Just make sure to put your Eircode in your address. It has improved rural deliveries tremendously. Even a courier with no knowledge of your area can find their way straight to your door.

PandaPoo wrote: »

Other than that I never use post offices or even post boxes. How much is a stamp these days? It was 70c when I sent my wedding invites 4 years ago I think.

A stamp now costs €1.

Badly Drunk Boy

I was at the post office in the local Tesco recently (I'm not even sure why) but the queue was long enough, so there are a fair few users.

Turnipman

Uriel. wrote: »

Of course post offices will survive, even when they really shouldn't

Politicians will continue to invent ways of wasting money and throwing it at An Post.

See the latest from Minister Jim Daly

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/post-vans-may-deliver-water-and-meals-861758.html

And, while we're discussing Jim "Dumbo" Daly TD, permit me to remind readers that he's using his Ministerial superman outfit to try to save Ballineen post office from closure, although there's another PO located less than a mile away in Enniskeane!

http://www.redfm.ie/news/cork/minister-intervenes-to-save-a-west-cork-post-office-on-the-brink-of-closure/

JayRoc

The only reason I use my post office is to buy stamps and it's a pain in the ass.

I do not understand why newsagents etc don't sell stamps anymore.

To be fair, the post office is never quiet when I am there. And it's not a rural village I live in, like.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Overlooking the obvious nonsense about delivering bottled water ...

Minister of State for older people, Jim Daly, who first approached An Post with the idea of delivering water to elderly and vulnerable people in rural areas, said: “We must realise that we have a world-class network of a daily delivery service to every household in Ireland but we as consumers are not choosing to post our correspondence as often as we used to.”

Well, duh. This is like someone in England bemoaning the "world-class network" of canals that are no longer used because everyone has switched to road and rail. Of course people are not posting their correspondence as much as they used to: We now live in a world where email, social media, and 57 bazillion texting and messaging apps have made it possible to correspond with anyone instantaneously, regardless of whether they're in the next parish or in Australia.

I daresay there are many young people who have never posted a letter in their lives. Older state ministers don't seem to grasp this reality.

Trasna1

Cabaal wrote: »

The postal system will of course survive, with so much services moving online people still need physical items delivered and somebody has to do this.

However, local post offices is another matter and people need to think long and hard about the importance of them in their community (and they are important social hubs) especially for older people.

My dad was at the post office a few years back and was talking to a women who said "did you know you can get your pension paid into your bank account now, would save Q'ing here". My dad replied "but if we all do that, we may not have a post office.

He's right.

I think the social importance of the post office is overstated. A general grocery or pub matter more than the post office tbh.

Post offices are closing because communities are not using them. If communities want to save their offices, the best thing they could do is give them business, not protesting.

Turnipman

Dravokivich wrote: »

It better. Every time I've to send something to a civil servant it's via post. I've also got to send a form to my insurer via post too.

I registered for Revenue's PAYE Anytime service over a decade ago, since when I have never needed to send or receive any revenue correspondence through the post - it's wonderful!

If only every other Government department/Office was as easy to deal with!

Graces7

Trasna1 wrote: »

I think the social importance of the post office is overstated. A general grocery or pub matter more than the post office tbh.

Post offices are closing because communities are not using them. If communities want to save their offices, the best thing they could do is give them business, not protesting.

Many in rural areas are in a corner of the shop, or in the shop in a garage.

kneemos

An Post made several million last year from a loss making position the previous year.
Must be doing something right

RobbieMD

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

No it won't.

If there was any foresight or ambition in the civil service/ government there would remain a single public services office preferably attached / co located with the local school. There you could have postal service / garda desk / doctors surgery and possibly even a local shop which would (1) satisfy one of the reasons for closure (wasted resources) and (2) have a social hub in villages and towns with footfall on a daily basis and (3) have garda presence in the location at least some hours daily even if its just a 30 minute window five days a week for example.

And you could have the local paedophile signing on at the Garda part inside a school?

SPDUB

Mohammed Attractive Serpent wrote: »

....a state-funded postal service...

it's stated owned not state funded

It has to fund it's operations out of the money it raises out of offering it's service - delivering letters , parcels selling various financial products etc .

BrianBoru00

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Again, NO - It won't.
You're plucking figures out of thin air and even still they don't stack up.
You said Cash would be gone in five years when facts do nothing to support this.
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/scpops/ecb.op201.en.pdf

A study based on 2016 spending shows cash is still very much king. If your going to join the "fake news" campaign at least have a pretend source to back it up.

BrianBoru00

RobbieMD wrote: »

And you could have the local paedophile signing on at the Garda part inside a school?

You could . . . . .
or again heres a thought - don't allow them to sign on in the vicinity of children.

With an attitude like that your obviously a senior civill servant :rolleyes:
Tiny minute possible problems often have tiny minute solutions.