Acquiring a convenience store

Resverathrole

This is something I'd really like to do. How could I do it? Could I buy one cheaply in some rural town. And how could I prepare in the meantime? I guess you're essentially selling people things they don't need, or that you're selling to dumb people... people who buy the sweets, lotto, cigarettes, scratch cards, alcohol, etc. Below are some questions I have.

What are the typical owner habits that cause most retail shops to lose huge amounts of money?

What ideas do most store owners fail to think of as they become set in their ways?

In the case of franchise owners, what rules do they have to adhere to that cause them to lose money?

What expected technology could you do away with to save expenses?

What are some examples of unexpected expenses that owners might have to pay?

What other leaches does the owner have to pay, apart from government tax, and mandatory insurance?

What sort of an inconvenience do health and safety pose these days?

What store items can you think of, that would be expected by customers, but yet that aren't worth the profit margins?

How could you cut down on electricity?

Am I the only customer in the world that would be more likely to enter the store that doesn't offer lotto, as you're likely to be less time in a queue.

OU812

I think you’d be better off picking something you know absolutely nothing about and throwing vast amounts of money at that instead.

Resverathrole

OU812 wrote: »

I think you’d be better off picking something you know absolutely nothing about and throwing vast amounts of money at that instead.

So I take it you know nothing about it?

OU812

I think it’s you who knows nothing about it.

As it happens I do know a moderate amount about it having been in the supply side of the industry for a number of years and my advice , which your common ssense naw should also be telling you, is if you know nothing about it, stay away from it.

Resverathrole

OU812 wrote: »

I think it’s you who knows nothing about it.

As it happens I do know a moderate amount about it having been in the supply side of the industry for a number of years and my advice, which your common sense naw should also be telling you, is if you know nothing about it, stay away from it.

I'm just a little curious. How could I learn about it?

AntiClimax

OU812 wrote: »

if you know nothing about it, stay away from it.

That sort of mentality can often make people more inclined to want to find out more.

OU812

Resverathrole wrote: »

I'm just a little curious. How could I learn about it?

Start by talking to shopkeepers, work for a couple of months for one.

Take every shift going so you know what’s involved. The opening up shift is vastly different to the closing up one.

Call the symbol groups and ask to speak with a franchising manager. They’ve lots of people calling them but are very selective about where they apply the franchise. They also may not offer you the one you want because your store will be deemed as more suitable for another. They’d they’ll charge you a franchise fee and a percentage of sales every month.

Honestly, if this is not something you’ve experience of, stay away. It’ll chew you up and spit you out.

Stanford

Resverathrole wrote: »

I'm just a little curious. How could I learn about it?

Do a local "Start your own Business" course, your knowledge suggests that there are major gaps to be filled before you lay out any money

Resverathrole

OU812 wrote: »

Start by talking to shopkeepers, work for a couple of months for one.

Take every shift going so you know what’s involved. The opening up shift is vastly different to the closing up one.

Call the symbol groups and ask to speak with a franchising manager. They’ve lots of people calling them but are very selective about where they apply the franchise. They also may not offer you the one you want because your store will be deemed as more suitable for another. They’d they’ll charge you a franchise fee and a percentage of sales every month.

Honestly, if this is not something you’ve experience of, stay away. It’ll chew you up and spit you out.

Thank you,

I presume most store owners buy existing ones, as opposed to opening up new ones.

I've worked in three convenience stores in my time. I didn't pay much interest towards the business side of things at the time, but on hindsight I could've sussed out a bit more about it.

Resverathrole

Stanford wrote: »

Do a local "Start your own Business" course, your knowledge suggests that there are major gaps to be filled before you lay out any money

You mean I don't know the terminology?

Sadb

Resverathrole wrote: »

This is something I'd really like to do. How could I do it? Could I buy one cheaply in some rural town. And how could I prepare in the meantime? I guess you're essentially selling people things they don't need, or that you're selling to dumb people... people who buy the sweets, lotto, cigarettes, scratch cards, alcohol, etc. Below are some questions I have.

What are the typical owner habits that cause most retail shops to lose huge amounts of money?

What ideas do most store owners fail to think of as they become set in their ways?

In the case of franchise owners, what rules do they have to adhere to that cause them to lose money?

What expected technology could you do away with to save expenses?

What are some examples of unexpected expenses that owners might have to pay?

What other leaches does the owner have to pay, apart from government tax, and mandatory insurance?

What sort of an inconvenience do health and safety pose these days?

What store items can you think of, that would be expected by customers, but yet that aren't worth the profit margins?

How could you cut down on electricity?

As well as tax and insurance you have rates, water charges and staff wages.

Unexpected expenses I can think of off the top of my head are- internet, phone line. Lotto, card machines, simple ordering etc all need internet (the lotto one is separate). It, maintenance, pos and advertisement fees etc. Pest control contract, credit card machine and banking fees. Constant maintenance of fridges/freezers/coffee machine etc. Alcohol, cigarettes licence fees. Delivery fees for newspapers/magazines. Small items add up too like coffee cups, food bags, napkins etc. Social media presence.

Franchise fees are much higher for the better known company, (starts with m and ends in graves) and you have to be a certain percent loyal to most of them too.

Hse compliance and haccp take up a lot of man hours too.

Food waste can be a big expense, especially while you are establishing.

Items that aren’t worth their profit margins- phone credit, electricity pre pay cards (no profit at all on those). Generally household products and health and beauty have the lowest margins but do have the advantage of not going off!

Highest margins by far are deli items but you have to do them well to be successful.

the_syco

Resverathrole wrote: »

This is something I'd really like to do. How could I do it? Could I buy one cheaply in some rural town.

Look for shops in a 30km radius of where you'd like to start a shop, that existed in the last 15 years.

Then find out why they're closed. If there's a shop within 30km, pop in, and see how busy they are. If they closed because they got old and died, you'll have to consider why no-one bought the shop; perhaps the house was paid off, and they only made enough money to get by. Heck, some people run the shop until they die, as they've nothing better to do with their life.

You'd want your shop to be at or very near a crossroads. You'd need to sell the essentials, such as milk, bread, and cow worming tablets.

Example; https://goo.gl/maps/VPRtbPsuCF22

Provides tractor fuel, and all the bits and pieces. Provides basic farming stuff, as well as dog feed.

You'll want to live in the same building, so you're only paying one rent.

Finally, what will you do when you get robbed? You're down the country, and the rent will be cheap as there's no Garda station nearby, so when you get robbed, it be be a good hour before the cops show up.

lucky john

"Could I buy one cheaply in some rural town. And how could I prepare in the meantime? I guess you're essentially selling people things they don't need, or that you're selling to dumb people"

With an attitude like that forget it. The "dumb people" will be smart enough to suss you out fairly quick.

lastusername

How much does the average Centra / Spar owner make per year from an 'average' sized store? I heard around 50k which surely can't be right and if it is you'd wonder why they'd be doing it at all!

CeilingFly

Immediately by calling gov taxes and insurers "leaches", its obvious you are either trolling or a totally unsuitable person for running a business.

Jack Moore

lastusername wrote: »

How much does the average Centra / Spar owner make per year from an 'average' sized store? I heard around 50k which surely can't be right and if it is you'd wonder why they'd be doing it at all!

A decent spar makes the owner 6 figures.

lastusername

Jack Moore wrote: »

A decent spar makes the owner 6 figures.

You'd hope so! There's a shop around the corner from me - nearly always busy as it's in the middle of an estate. Queues every weekday evening and at weekends. You'd hope the guy is making at least 100k a year, he always seems happy enough!

Soulsun

High turnover ... Low profit margin....High risk...

Lots of potential variables.

Insurance costs through the roof.

Also long hours for you.

Best of luck though.... Go speak to a local accountant who could give you some professional advice...

Resverathrole

lucky john wrote: »

"Could I buy one cheaply in some rural town. And how could I prepare in the meantime? I guess you're essentially selling people things they don't need, or that you're selling to dumb people"

With an attitude like that forget it. The "dumb people" will be smart enough to suss you out fairly quick.

Typical

the_syco

Resverathrole wrote: »

This is something I'd really like to do. How could I do it? Could I buy one cheaply in some rural town. And how could I prepare in the meantime? I guess you're essentially selling people things they don't need, or that you're selling to dumb people... people who buy the sweets, lotto, cigarettes, scratch cards, alcohol, etc. Below are some questions I have.

Resverathrole wrote: »

Am I the only customer in the world that would be more likely to enter the store that doesn't offer lotto, as you're likely to be less time in a queue.

If you sell what people don't need, you'll have no queue, as you'll have no customers.

People who buy the lotto will goto the shop on a regular basis. They'll buy the same things, and anything else they need.

It'll draw the people. Who'll probably drive to your shop. And have passengers who'll also buy in your shop.

Put a coffee machine in as well, with the small portions of UHT milk (that will, once not opened, have a shelf life of a 6-9 months). Nothing too expensive; just, like the lotto; a draw. People will pop in, grab a coffee, the newspaper, etc. Some form of food would be an idea. Sandwiches in boxes; something that'll go with the coffee.

That'll get regular traffic. Regular traffic is what you want.

Can't imagine why on earth anyone would want to run a convenience store nowadays let alone acquire one if they could avoid it.

Tiny margins, long hours, staff issues, theft, so many sku's, huge competition from chains with more buying power, enforced buying from the wholesalers dominating the industry.
No disrespect to anyone here who is making a living out of it or who has in the past, but to go into this business now in my eyes is almost putting a noose around the neck of your wallet and happiness.

Not offering the lotto in your shop, you wouldn't have to worry about queues for sure as nobody would come to the store in the first place!

irishgeo

Credit card processing fees. People don't realise how much **** they ask you for when applying for a merchant number.

Service contact on tills

lucky john

Resverathrole wrote: »

Typical

It's obvious you know nothing about running a retail business which is fair enough. Most of it can be learned. The most important ingredient for success in a business like this can't be learned and you don't have it. Attitude. You can try and fake it but you would be found out in no time. A Customer service business, where you look down on the customers you serve is not for you.

Resverathrole

lucky john wrote: »

It's obvious you know nothing about running a retail business which is fair enough. Most of it can be learned. The most important ingredient for success in a business like this can't be learned and you don't have it. Attitude. You can try and fake it but you would be found out in no time. A Customer service business, where you look down on the customers you serve is not for you.

Well that comment is better reasoned than your first one.

You do realise that tax is higher for self employed people because they're more likely fake their books

lucky john

Resverathrole wrote: »

Well that comment is better reasoned than your first one.

You do realise that tax is higher for self employed people because they're more likely fake their books

No I didnt realise that. Please explain?

Stanford

Resverathrole wrote: »

You mean I don't know the terminology?

Why are you so aggressive with people who are trying to give you good advice?

Gloomtastic!

Can everyone please calm down! If you can’t say anything nice, say nothing at all.

OP try working for a few months in a convenience store. See how it’s done and how you could improve things if you did it yourself. Like all businesses, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it. It’s not, it’s hard bloody work.
The Gloomster

the_syco

Resverathrole wrote: »

You do realise that tax is higher for self employed people

Employ a decent accountant. In the long run, they'll pay for themselves, and save you money.

freedominacup

lucky john wrote: »

No I didnt realise that. Please explain?

I was told the same directly by a revenue officer during an audit. Tank of diesel in the private car paid for with a business cheque or credit card is one if the most blatant one. Similarly for heating oil. Lots of small stuff with dual use. Doing some renovations on the business premises. Shockingly there's a bit of renovation work going on at home also. Too hard to police so they just accept they can't deal with it directly and give the self employed half the tax credits of an employee. Get you in the long run so no point in being too good they're assuming your playing the system.

corcaigh1

lucky john wrote: »

"Could I buy one cheaply in some rural town. And how could I prepare in the meantime? I guess you're essentially selling people things they don't need, or that you're selling to dumb people"

With an attitude like that forget it. The "dumb people" will be smart enough to suss you out fairly quick.

CeilingFly wrote: »

Immediately by calling gov taxes and insurers "leaches", its obvious you are either trolling or a totally unsuitable person for running a business.

Exactly, when I read the OP statement of selling product to "dumb" customers straight away my thoughts were, without doubt this person's business will fail if that is the attitude.

Resverathrole

corcaigh1 wrote: »

Exactly, when I read the OP statement of selling product to "dumb" customers straight away my thoughts were, without doubt this person's business will fail if that is the attitude.

"I'm amazed at how two faced good business men can be" is what you'd actually say if you saw me in action.

Now if you want to act smart, go bugger off elsewhere, cretin! This ruthless business man has got better things to do!

Stephen15

How are people in a rural area who just want to get their groceries somehow "dumb"? When you're running a business like a convience store down the country it is truly a community based business which is focused on providing a service to people in the local area who wouldn't otherwise have that service.

Don't get me wrong a business is focused on driving a profit but most people who buys go into these types of shops are not dumb. They just want to get their everyday essientals such as milk, newspapers and bread and maybe a small treat also such as a bottle of wine, an ice cream, sweets for the kids or a lotto ticket.

harr

I have friend who runs a small forecourt and convenience store. It was a family store and in his family 50 odd years. Only for the fact it was left to him he wouldn’t have taken the role on.
His store is rural enough and busy enough but still his take from the profits would be small enough.
He takes a wage and the rest goes back into the business and he certainly doesn’t live a lavish lifestyle from what he earns.

It can be a pain in the arse to be honest, no clocking out and just going home he is on call 24-7 365 days a year ..staff issues seem to be a big issue.
HR issues are a mine field and current employment laws chop and change regularly.
The big food companies have taken over a lot of smaller companies so now he has to stick to a minimum cost on any order...that’s a pain for smaller shops.
You also have to pay into what ever brand you choose.

While he isn’t on the breadline it is a struggle and does take a lot of hard work and commitment and keep in mind he has been in this game since he was 16 he is now 50. His dad did make him do a business degree before he took over the family business.

So OP as you can see it’s a very hard Business model to get into and if you do find an empty retail unit you might want to use. Just ask yourself the question why it closed previously.
You are going to need significant capital to make it work..

Axwell

Resverathrole wrote: »

"I'm amazed at how two faced good business men can be" is what you'd actually say if you saw me in action.

Now if you want to act smart, go bugger off elsewhere, cretin! This ruthless business man has got better things to do!

With your kind of attitude and those comments your time here will be very short lived if you keep it up..you were already warned by a mod - red card for ignoring it, next time it will be a ban.

UsedToWait

No one notice the last syllable of the users name?

Clearly on the wind up from the word go.

DubTony

the_syco wrote: »

Finally, what will you do when you get robbed? You're down the country, and the rent will be cheap as there's no Garda station nearby, so when you get robbed, it be be a good hour before the cops show up.

It doesn't matter how quickly the cops get there. The bad guys are almost always already gone.

My advice is simple. I'm sure I've said it before.

If you're not a retailer, don't get into retail.

Resverathrole

I was just after reading about how Michael O'Leary made huge profits with several retail stores before he went into Ryanair.