Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Leaf24 second hand advice?

  • 07-08-2018 6:06pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭


    Hello folks,

    I've decided to get a 2nd hand Leaf. We live in Galway, need short trips with kids, to town, to office, max 20km roundtrip.

    In terms of infrastucture around - the closest L2 charger is about 3 kms away, closest Chademo is about 4 kms away, another Chademo charger is 8 kms away. There are other about 8 L1/L2 withn 7 kms range. Planning on getting L2 installed at home, but may not work out (old house, old wiring etc). I'm confident I could get L2 installed at my workplace (it's a business park).

    Our budget is about €15k. I'm looking at either 151/2 or 161 Leaf XE optimally with a fast 6.6kw charger. I'm focusing on Leaf 24 as the battery degradation with Leaf 30 seems worse, and also they are cheaper in general.

    Currently have two options:

    161 24kw XE/Visia with 6.6 kW charger, 20k kms ODO, private seller, 2 owners, asking price €14k. TPMS is broken (due to tyre exchange?).
    LeafSpy as follows:
    Ahr - 60.34
    SOH - 92.26%
    Hx - 90.32%
    SOC - 67.5%
    min/avg/max = 3.995 4.004 4.010 (15 mV)
    temp C = 24.0 24.1 22.6 (1.5 C)
    257 QCs & 209 L1/L2


    151 24kw SV/Accenta with 3.3 kW charger, 11k kms ODO, dealer, 1 owner, imported from UK, asking price €12.8k.
    LeafSpy as follows:
    Ahr - 60.65
    SOH - 92%
    Hx - 93.12%
    SOC - 78.7%
    min/avg/max = 4.040 4.049 4.057 (17 mV)
    temp C = 16.4 16.5 16.6 (0.2 C)
    89 QCs & 109 L1/L2

    To me the Ahr looks low for so low mileage for both, correct me if I'm wrong. Both have been exposed to many QCs (is that bad?). Should I keep looking?

    Also, how can I tell definitely that 151/2 & 161 has a lizzard battery?

    Thanks in advance.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    The Visia is the lowest model with no telematics. So I'd automatically avoid.

    The SOH is really the only figure to look at, although it's not super reliable as it fluctuates by around 5% (from experience).

    QCs, the jury is still out on that but it's leaning towards them not being as significant as once thought.

    Those model years definitely have the newer battery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The Visia is the lowest model with no telematics. So I'd automatically avoid.

    The SOH is really the only figure to look at, although it's not super reliable as it fluctuates by around 5% (from experience).

    QCs, the jury is still out on that but it's leaning towards them not being as significant as once thought.

    Those model years definitely have the newer battery.
    Alright, does the UK imported one look good? For me 8% capacity lost in 200 charges and 11000 kms seems a bit high? Or the kilometres don't matter?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,162 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    McGiver wrote: »
    Alright, does the UK imported one look good? For me 8% capacity lost in 200 charges and 11000 kms seems a bit high? Or the kilometres don't matter?

    My 141 has lost 15% SOH after 70,000km and over 400 QC's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    I would confirm about the charger before going further. Without a home charger you are only putting yourself into a life of stress.....

    Even with older houses you can install a standalone fuse board just for the charger. Might cost a few quid more but worth it long term.

    Does the house already have a trip switch board?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    McGiver wrote: »
    Alright, does the UK imported one look good? For me 8% capacity lost in 200 charges and 11000 kms seems a bit high? Or the kilometres don't matter?

    It looks fine. As I said the SOH does vary depending on the day, so if you checked it again it could be higher, or it could be lower.

    The only thing missing is the 6.6kw charger. Our car has one and since we got the 7.2kw home charger installed last September we've only really needed the ability to charge quicker maybe 3 times. It's definitely handy, but it's not essential.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,684 ✭✭✭waynegalway


    Hi

    I live just outside Claregalway, and I drive a 151 Leaf24. I’d be happy to meet up with you and go over what it’s like sometime (it’s not for sale, sorry!).

    Mine is an Acenta, with the 6.6kW onboard charger. There are pluses and minuses to each option, but I’d avoid the XE version, and I’d be an advocate for the 6.6kW charger. Others will disagree, but that’s why buying an EV is not like buying any other type of car: you have to think about your own needs and buy accordingly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I would confirm about the charger before going further. Without a home charger you are only putting yourself into a life of stress.....

    Even with older houses you can install a standalone fuse board just for the charger. Might cost a few quid more but worth it long term.

    Does the house already have a trip switch board?

    Any house can manage a granny cable, and a 24kw will charge fully in the night saver period, so I wouldn't worry about wiring that much.

    Fwiw our house is 40 years old. I had a modern consumer unit installed a couple of years ago, so slotting in a 40a Rcbo was a doddle and the 7.2kw Chargemaster works perfectly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    kceire wrote: »
    My 141 has lost 15% SOH after 70,000km and over 400 QC's.

    What's the range on your GOM after a full charge?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Any house can manage a granny cable, and a 24kw will charge fully in the night saver period, so I wouldn't worry about wiring that much.

    Fwiw our house is 40 years old. I had a modern consumer unit installed a couple of years ago, so slotting in a 40a Rcbo was a doddle and the 7.2kw Chargemaster works perfectly.


    I don't see a granny cable as a long term solution. If you are going with electric car better to check now and confirm how and if you can install a proper charger.


    So if it costs 1k reduce your budget by 1k and look for a car at 14k. I don't recommend anyone buying an electric car and only using the public system.....you will get pi**ed off fairly quickly!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I don't see a granny cable as a long term solution. If you are going with electric car better to check now and confirm how and if you can install a proper charger.


    So if it costs 1k reduce your budget by 1k and look for a car at 14k. I don't recommend anyone buying an electric car and only using the public system.....you will get pi**ed off fairly quickly!!

    I agree about the public system. In short forget it exists and plan on never needing it!

    The granny cable is fine as a long term solution, just not elegant. We used ours solely for the first 15 months, until we got the Chargemaster installed. I'd also wager that any house could also support 3.3kw charging, regardless of how old the wiring is. Probably the main reason ecars only ever installed 3.6kw units.

    (Edit: for completeness, the granny cable draws 2.2kw)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 64,548 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The granny cable is fine as a long term solution, just not elegant. We used ours solely for the first 15 months

    And when you bought your EV, it wasn't at all certain that EVs would very soon take over, justifying the expense of a home charger, that you would use for all your future cars

    It is certain now :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I would confirm about the charger before going further. Without a home charger you are only putting yourself into a life of stress.....

    Even with older houses you can install a standalone fuse board just for the charger. Might cost a few quid more but worth it long term.

    Does the house already have a trip switch board?
    There's a fuse box alright. I know that without the home charger it would be a pain. What I was trying to figure out if someone could check the wiring in the house as well-being as install the charger and how much it would cost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    unkel wrote: »
    And when you bought your EV, it wasn't at all certain that EVs would very soon take over, justifying the expense of a home charger, that you would use for all your future cars

    It is certain now :D

    To the point where I've ordered an OpenEVSE. It's in the country... Took 2 days to get from San Diego to Dublin, and An Post have it for 6 days now. Must be a few EV heads in the sorting office having a good look!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    McGiver wrote: »
    There's a fuse box alright. I know that without the home charger it would be a pain. What I was trying to figure out if someone could check the wiring in the house as well-being as install the charger and how much it would cost.

    That’s a bigger question and I would separate the requests to electricians

    Do you have a T90sr shower or anything like that installed?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    McGiver wrote: »
    There's a fuse box alright. I know that without the home charger it would be a pain. What I was trying to figure out if someone could check the wiring in the house as well-being as install the charger and how much it would cost.

    How old is the house?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,162 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    n97 mini wrote: »
    What's the range on your GOM after a full charge?

    ranges between 130-140km


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    n97 mini wrote: »
    How old is the house?
    1970s. I can tell the wiring is rubbish because when I do Internet over the wire (via AC sockets) I get way less than I should and that's due to rubbish wiring.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    That’s a bigger question and I would separate the requests to electricians

    Do you have a T90sr shower or anything like that installed?
    Actually two of them. The one we use daily is Mira 9kW, never blew the fuse AFAIK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    kceire wrote: »
    ranges between 130-140km
    Still pretty good.
    McGiver wrote: »
    1970s. I can tell the wiring is rubbish because when I do Internet over the wire (via AC sockets) I get way less than I should and that's due to rubbish wiring.
    I wouldn't judge anything by how well Powerline works... it only really works well if the two adapters are on the same spur, and not going through the fuse board. A lot of it comes down to the hardware implementation too: some brands are great, some are crap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    n97 mini wrote: »
    It looks fine. As I said the SOH does vary depending on the day, so if you checked it again it could be higher, or it could be lower.

    The only thing missing is the 6.6kw charger. Our car has one and since we got the 7.2kw home charger installed last September we've only really needed the ability to charge quicker maybe 3 times. It's definitely handy, but it's not essential.
    Yes, I'd prefer 6.6, I've been looking but 152/161 Leaf 24kW with 6.6 charger are hard to get. Almost all 15/16 Leaf 24 kW on sale now are 3.3kW charger.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I wouldn't judge anything by how well Powerline works... it only really works well if the two adapters are on the same spur, and not going through the fuse board. A lot of it comes down to the hardware implementation too: some brands are great, some are crap.
    OK, I'm going to give it a go then. Do I need electrician signing off the wiring first? Think I've read it somewhere in the SEAI grant readme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    McGiver wrote: »
    OK, I'm going to give it a go then. Do I need electrician signing off the wiring first? Think I've read it somewhere in the SEAI grant readme.

    I understand you need to basically have a receipt from a RECI sparks to get the grant. As part of him (or her) scoping out the job they should be able to advise if your house wiring is up to the job. The message on here seems to be to get a few quotes (i.e. shop around) and tell them you want an outdoor socket installed, as if you say it's for a charger then the price goes up by around €600.

    Fwiw, my (RECI) cousin installed our Chargemaster. Parts (40a rcbo, 4 metres of 6mm2 cable, outdoor socket thing) came to €70. Labour came to a few pints. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I don't see a granny cable as a long term solution. If you are going with electric car better to check now and confirm how and if you can install a proper charger.


    So if it costs 1k reduce your budget by 1k and look for a car at 14k. I don't recommend anyone buying an electric car and only using the public system.....you will get pi**ed off fairly quickly!!
    Good idea, think with the grant included, worst case for home charger should be 500 quid net.

    And re granny, I've read that granny is only an emergency solution and can cause fire with rubbish wiring and especially with an extension (e.g. not fully extended), actual cases of that in the US.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    McGiver wrote: »
    Good idea, think with the grant included, worst case for home charger should be 500 quid net.

    And re granny, I've read that granny is only an emergency solution and can cause fire with rubbish wiring and especially with an extension (e.g. not fully extended), actual cases of that in the US.

    Seriously, don't worry about using a granny cable. It's about the same as a 2 bar electric fire (2.2kw or around 10 amps). A modern kettle consumes more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I understand you need to basically have a receipt from a RECI sparks to get the grant. As part of him (or her) scoping out the job they should be able to advise if your house wiring is up to the job. The message on here seems to be to get a few quotes (i.e. shop around) and tell them you want an outdoor socket installed, as if you say it's for a charger then the price goes up by around €600.

    Fwiw, my (RECI) cousin installed our Chargemaster. Parts (40a rcbo, 4 metres of 6mm2 cable, outdoor socket thing) came to €70. Labour came to a few pints. :)
    Got it, outdoor socket so, good advice! So guess the only thing they need to know is that it would be for a 7kW 32A appliance, right? Or not necessary?

    Which could be a....... difficult to find an appliance which draws 32A and 7kW. I've just checked and even fecking powerful log cutter is just 3kW and 16A :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Seriously, don't worry about using a granny cable. It's about the same as a 2 bar electric fire (2.2kw or around 10 amps). A modern kettle consumes more.
    I wouldn't worry as an emergency solution, but I wouldn't chance it for regular (say weekly) charging.
    Kettles can be 2kW or so, but don't run for 8 hours straight :) Just 1 minute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Hi

    I live just outside Claregalway, and I drive a 151 Leaf24. I’d be happy to meet up with you and go over what it’s like sometime (it’s not for sale, sorry!).

    Mine is an Acenta, with the 6.6kW onboard charger. There are pluses and minuses to each option, but I’d avoid the XE version, and I’d be an advocate for the 6.6kW charger. Others will disagree, but that’s why buying an EV is not like buying any other type of car: you have to think about your own needs and buy accordingly.

    Absolutely 6.6, but they are harder to get (better value I suppose). Cheers, PMed you...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    McGiver wrote: »
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    That’s a bigger question and I would separate the requests to electricians

    Do you have a T90sr shower or anything like that installed?
    Actually two of them. The one we use daily is Mira 9kW, never blew the fuse AFAIK.

    If you have 2 Electric showed you have a priority switch, the requirement to charge the car is less than the electric shower


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    McGiver wrote: »
    I wouldn't worry as an emergency solution, but I wouldn't chance it for regular (say weekly) charging.
    Kettles can be 2kW or so, but don't run for 8 hours straight :) Just 1 minute.

    It's like terminal velocity. The cables in the walls reach full heat in minutes, not hours. If they can stand a 2 bar electric fire for 15 minutes, they can stand a granny cable for 9 hours.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭McGiver


    n97 mini wrote: »
    It's like terminal velocity. The cables in the walls reach full heat in minutes, not hours. If they can stand a 2 bar electric fire for 15 minutes, they can stand a granny cable for 9 hours.
    Sound.
    Anyway, what risks are buying 2nd hand from the UK? One of the ones I'm looking at is UK imported,but thinking about battery degradation mileage doesn't matter that much, 24kW seem to be more affected by time i. e. battery age rather than charging/discharging cycles.


Advertisement