Defense to drink driving

thestar

A defense that was and is used quite a lot to drink driving, having been involved in an accident is that the driver had a drink after the crash to deal with the shock etc. I am now informed that this is not the case anymore and that in these instances, drivers can be arrested for drink driving. Can anybody shed any light on this for me?

GM228

It is known as the Hip Flask defence and can still be used, it is however an extremely difficult defence to raise and successful defences based on it are very rare.

Under His Eye

As the punishment for DD is not negotiable people will try anything as there is nothing to lose by raising various defences.

The best one I ever heard of that actually worked was a guy that the Gardaí couldn't locate the ignition key. I was amazed that he won.

drunkmonkey

If your really wanted to chance your arm don't wind down the windows and lock the doors, they need a warrant to break into the car and if you put your hand or face against the glass they can't smash it. You'll be sober by the time they get into you.
It'll take big kohonas but should work.

Mod
To Drunken Monkey
Pls do not post such foolish advice here again

GM228

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If your really wanted to chance your arm don't wind down the windows and lock the doors, they need a warrant to break into the car and if you put your hand or face against the glass they can't smash it. You'll be sober by the time they get into you.
It'll take big kohonas but should work.

I really hope that's a joke.

They do not need a warrant to enter your car, they can use reasonable force to do so including breaking a window and you can't put your face on every window at the same time.

Lmklad

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If your really wanted to chance your arm don't wind down the windows and lock the doors, they need a warrant to break into the car and if you put your hand or face against the glass they can't smash it. You'll be sober by the time they get into you.
It'll take big kohonas but should work.

That’s sounds more American. Definitely do not need a warrant to enter.

earlyevening

What about the gum disease defence. "Sorry guard, I habitually rinse my mouth with this alcohol containing mouthwash as advised by my dentist". Won't get you past a urine test though....unless you admit you partake in the world one era routine of dipping your genitals in alcohol rinse to prevent syphilis. Still stumped at a blood test though.

Henry Ford III

There is no defense for drink driving. If you did it and got caught you deserve whatever you get for it.

fullstop

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If your really wanted to chance your arm don't wind down the windows and lock the doors, they need a warrant to break into the car and if you put your hand or face against the glass they can't smash it. You'll be sober by the time they get into you.
It'll take big kohonas but should work.

Mod
To Drunken Monkey
Pls do not post such foolish advice here again

Yeah, fairly believable one. Right up there with knocking off his hat so he can't arrest you.

Victor

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If your really wanted to chance your arm don't wind down the windows and lock the doors, they need a warrant to break into the car and if you put your hand or face against the glass they can't smash it. You'll be sober by the time they get into you.
It'll take big kohonas but should work.

Mod
To Drunken Monkey
Pls do not post such foolish advice here again

Won't work in a convertible.

Unlikely to work anywhere else either.

italodisco

Only a scumbag would be trying to defend drink driving after an accident, and only a scumbag would be advising on what best ways to do it.

Under His Eye

italodisco wrote: »

Only a scumbag would be trying to defend drink driving after an accident, and only a scumbag would be advising on what best ways to do it.

After Hours/Morals forum is that way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

drunkmonkey

Victor wrote: »

Won't work in a convertible.

Unlikely to work anywhere else either.

I'd fancy my chances in a fiat 500.

Time

Henry Ford III wrote: »

There is no defense for drink driving. If you did it and got caught you deserve whatever you get for it.

There's plenty of defences to a charge of drink driving

uck51js9zml2yt

fullstop wrote: »

Yeah, fairly believable one. Right up there with knocking off his hat so he can't arrest you.

Does that really work ??

I got breathalysed once. I was coming from church. I was thankful we use blackcurrant juice instead of wine

dr.fuzzenstein

Under His Eye wrote: »

After Hours/Morals forum is that way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yeah, where do these people get off?
Mentioning morals and right or wrong here are the equivalent of going to a vampire party with a wooden stake and garlic/holy water perfume.

HughMann

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If your really wanted to chance your arm don't wind down the windows and lock the doors, they need a warrant to break into the car and if you put your hand or face against the glass they can't smash it. You'll be sober by the time they get into you.
It'll take big kohonas but should work.

Mod
To Drunken Monkey
Pls do not post such foolish advice here again

I heard too it's not adultery if you hold your breath.

cute geoge

A local guy driving a big tractor was stopped at check point one morning and over the limit ,he cleverly abandoned the tractor in middle of road and lmmoblised it so no one could move it .Any way after being carted off to station to be cautioned and blood tested ,the guards brought him back again to move the tractor and the case was over turned for this reason!!!

Atlantic Dawn

What kind of high class idiot would drink after a crash to only be then breathalysed?

funnyname

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/judge-blasts-hip-flask-defence-in-hurlers-drink-driving-case-212029.html

mynamejeff

cute geoge wrote: »

A local guy driving a big tractor was stopped at check point one morning and over the limit ,he cleverly abandoned the tractor in middle of road and lmmoblised it so no one could move it .Any way after being carted off to station to be cautioned and blood tested ,the guards brought him back again to move the tractor and the case was over turned for this reason!!!

I call BS on this

your telling me they couldn't find a culchie garda who knew how to drive a tractor?

JJayoo

How is somone expected to make a rational/logical/responsible decision when they are hammered drunk.

That's the problem with expecting people not to drink and drive, get pissed and logic gets seriously dulled.

Atlantic Dawn

Body cams on every Garda in the state would be a great asset, you can't argue with video evidence when it shows you were away with the fairies at the time in question.

mynamejeff

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Body cams on every Garda in the state would be a great asset, you can't argue with video evidence when it shows you were away with the fairies at the time in question.

how would that prove level of intoxication though which is the offence.

there is not will to eradicate drink driving in ireland , if there was there would be 0% limit on drink driving

wonski

funnyname wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/judge-blasts-hip-flask-defence-in-hurlers-drink-driving-case-212029.html

What a joke...

Am I reading it right, case dismissed???

Losty Dublin

fullstop wrote: »

Yeah, fairly believable one. Right up there with knocking off his hat so he can't arrest you.

Worked out fine for this sham

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u72a-zb8HrU

drunkmonkey

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Worked out fine for this sham

He didn't produce his licence or move the car over when requested so he'd already committed two offences.
If he had of shown his licence and moved over what would have been the next move.

Glass fused light

wonski wrote: »

What a joke...

Am I reading it right, case dismissed???

It had to be the state could not prove its case.
However if the will was there, the Uncle should have been charged with interferring with a Garda investigation. By asking if the driver had been tested and providing the alcohol prior to the test the clear intent was to subvert the investigation. And any ex-Garda should be aware that of that or should be made to testify in open court that he was an incompetent employee.

Under His Eye

It is a solicitors duty to find holes in the states case and exploit them to their clients benefit.

I find it highly amusing that some people find this reprehensible.

drunkmonkey

Under His Eye wrote: »

It is a solicitors duty to find holes in the states case and exploit them to their clients benefit.

I find it highly amusing that some people find this reprehensible.

Can you call your solicitor before blowing in the bag, I understand it's probably not a wise move but are you entitled to?

Time

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Can you call your solicitor before blowing in the bag, I understand it's probably not a wise move but are you entitled to?

You can request a solicitor, but you can’t refuse to undergo the test until you have spoken with one. The test is mandatory and a solicitor can’t advise you to refuse it. Instead they’d have to try and show there was a procedural flaw afterwards

Glass fused light

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Can you call your solicitor before blowing in the bag, I understand it's probably not a wise move but are you entitled to?

You have no automatic entitlement or right to seek legal representation in this country to negotiate between yourself and a Garda. If you refuse at the road side the Garda is entitled to detain you and transport you to the local nick with the proper breathalyser and/or a visit from the police appointed doctor. Refusal to get into the back of the Garda car could result in a charge resisting arrest, and being manhandled out of your car which may require damaging your vehicle. Refusal to give a breath, blood or urine sample in the station is in itself an offence which basically carries the same penalty as if you tested drunk.

mynamejeff

Under His Eye wrote: »

It is a solicitors duty to find holes in the states case and exploit them to their clients benefit.

I find it highly amusing that some people find this reprehensible.

is there not something in there about seeking justice ? honesty ? integrity? protection of society ?

not sure if its amusing but it is reprehensible

Mod

Pls, no ranting

ED E

One reported recently where the nurse sealed the sample not the Gard, case thrown out.

Could we practically double the ban length if contested and lost? Might cut down the time going through everything with a fine comb in court.

pcuser

A friend of mine got off becuase of the steam of his p$%s.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/drinkdrive-cases-dismissed-over-urine-steam-inhalation-26495923.html

Under His Eye

ED E wrote: »

One reported recently where the nurse sealed the sample not the Gard, case thrown out.

Could we practically double the ban length if contested and lost? Might cut down the time going through everything with a fine comb in court.

Really and deny the right to challenge the state? Welcome to Russia! Da Comrade.

Glass fused light

mynamejeff wrote: »

is there not something in there about seeking justice ? honesty ? integrity? protection of society ?

not sure if its amusing but it is reprehensible

ED E wrote: »

One reported recently where the nurse sealed the sample not the Gard, case thrown out.

Could we practically double the ban length if contested and lost? Might cut down the time going through everything with a fine comb in court.

The State regulates and sets the rules, the Gardai as agents of the State have, or should have been given sufficient training on the rules to be able to comply with the rules. The State recognised the power inbalance when it's pitted against an individual, and it has the power to change the rules by introducing or adjusting the law if they are seen as being unbalanced.
The State will not succeed in a prosecution where it's agents have been proven to have acted out side the rules. This is the 'penalty' the State has imposed on its agent is to ensure justice, honesty, integrity, and the protection of society is maintained. And yes the unfortunate result of this is that some individuals will avoid the consequences of breaking the rules.

mynamejeff

Glass fused light wrote: »

The State regulates and sets the rules, the Gardai as agents of the State have, or should have been given sufficient training on the rules to be able to comply with the rules. The State recognised the power inbalance when it's pitted against an individual, and it has the power to change the rules by introducing or adjusting the law if they are seen as being unbalanced.
The State will not succeed in a prosecution where it's agents have been proven to have acted out side the rules. This is the 'penalty' the State has imposed on its agent is to ensure justice, honesty, integrity, and the protection of society is maintained. And yes the unfortunate result of this is that some individuals will avoid the consequences of breaking the rules.

But the issue arises in cases where the agents of the state have not acted outside the rules and the offender still escapes justice.
Its one of the things that makes justice very hard to stomach sometimes on occasion

Rubberchikken

There is no defense for drink driving.


And the view from my high horse is superb.

Under His Eye

mynamejeff wrote: »

But the issue arises in cases where the agents of the state have not acted outside the rules and the offender still escapes justice.
Its one of the things that makes justice very hard to stomach sometimes on occasion

Can you elucidate to such a case?

Iwouldinmesack

What if there is a language barrier and your native language is not used by the guard when communicating with you. This is obviously restricted to the languages of this country ie Irish, English and ISL. In the case of a Deaf citizen ISL would be their first language, a visual language not spoken like Irish or English. Deaf people wouldnt be able to follow the instuctions given in English or Irish as they cant hear it. Id say nearly 100 pc of Guards wouldnt be able to use ISL. And if they do it would be extremely rare, considering the lack of ISL interpreters in Ireland. Ive never come across any guards in my limited interactions with them with ISL or if anyone in the community has either. I know Deaf people cannot be questioned without an interpreter present anyway.

Glass fused light

Iwouldinmesack wrote: »

What if there is a language barrier and your native language is not used by the guard when communicating with you. This is obviously restricted to the languages of this country ie Irish, English and ISL. In the case of a Deaf citizen ISL would be their first language, a visual language not spoken like Irish or English. Deaf people wouldnt be able to follow the instuctions given in English or Irish as they cant hear it. Id say nearly 100 pc of Guards wouldnt be able to use ISL. And if they do it would be extremely rare, considering the lack of ISL interpreters in Ireland. Ive never come across any guards in my limited interactions with them with ISL or if anyone in the community has either. I know Deaf people cannot be questioned without an interpreter present anyway.

Most deaf irish people can read English if not Irish? And it's not too difficult for the Garda to demonstrate what is required.

If you are speaking a different language and can't figure out how to blow the Garda can get translator on the phone.

Iwouldinmesack

Glass fused light wrote: »

Most deaf irish people can read English if not Irish? And it's not too difficult for the Garda to demonstrate what is required.

If you are speaking a different language and can't figure out how to blow the Garda can get translator on the phone.

Not deaf. Deaf. As in born deaf and first language is Irish Sign Language. Huge difference. Deaf people dont do Irish in schools, majority have poor written and spoken English. Its hard to understand a spoken language youve never heard. An interpreter would have to be there in person. Theres a lack of ISL translators in the country. Good luck trying to get one down at 4 in the morning in say west cork.

RayCun

Good thing the breathalyzer test is so widely known and easy to demonstrate, isn't it?

Glass fused light

Iwouldinmesack wrote: »

Not deaf. Deaf. As in first language is Irish Sign Language. Huge difference. Deaf people dont do Irish in schools, majority can barely understand english. Its hard to understand a spoken language youve never heard. Theres a lack of ISL translators in the country. Good luck trying to get one at 4 in the morning in west cork.

Sorry but are you saying that someone born with no hearing is not taught how to read in this country?
so that they can not understand how to go shopping and read a food label or read a medicine bottle or a road sign while driving a car?

Under His Eye

They would have more trouble with the evidential breath test. All the instructions would need to be translated correctly. A defence solicitor would be looking into that in detail.

Iwouldinmesack

Glass fused light wrote: »

Sorry but are you saying that someone born with no hearing is not taught how to read in this country?
so that they can not understand how to go shopping and read a food label or read a medicine bottle or a road sign while driving a car?

Id say if your pissed its hard to read something if you are hearing let alone Deaf.

wonski

RayCun wrote: »

Good thing the breathalyzer test is so widely known and easy to demonstrate, isn't it?

Yet you can get away on technicalities, or even better get your gardai friend or uncle giving you a flask.

Then lie all the way to the court date where it is dismissed when you tell the truth. Or not, because who knows what the truth was

wonski

Under His Eye wrote: »

They would have more trouble with the evidential breath test. All the instructions would need to be translated correctly. A defence solicitor would be looking into that in detail.

Especially what qualifications those interpreters hold etc.

I heard of agencies in the UK getting some hired without any real life qualifications

Glass fused light

Iwouldinmesack wrote: »

Glass fused light wrote: »

Sorry but are you saying that someone born with no hearing is not taught how to read in this country?
so that they can not understand how to go shopping and read a food label or read a medicine bottle or a road sign while driving a car?

Id say if your pissed its hard to read something if you are hearing let alone Deaf.

Was that a yes, a person born with no hearing is taught to read in this country?

Or is no, a person with no hearing is not taught to read in this country?

Iwouldinmesack

Glass fused light wrote: »

Was that a yes, a person born with no hearing is taught to read in this country?

Or is no, a person with no hearing is not taught to read in this country?

They are. That itself has caused huge problems as English is an oral language, which they cannot hear, whilst the language of the Deaf in Ireland, ISL, is a visual language. Totally unlike and vastly different. Because of this discrepency , reports have found that 80 pc of Deaf ISL users have poor levels of English literacy, with the average Deaf person having literacy levels in English the same as an 8 year old hearing child. This has lead to the majority having a poor education. The ISL act 2017 is trying to amend that by educating Deaf in ISL not English.