What to do with empty churchs?

Atoms for Peace

When churches will fall completely out of use, what we shall turn them into, if we shall keep.
A few cathedrals chronically on show, their parchment, plate and pyx in locked cases and let the rest rent-free to rain and sheep.
Shall we avoid them as unlucky places?

somefeen

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

When churches will fall completely out of use, what we shall turn them into, if we shall keep.
A few cathedrals chronically on show, their parchment, plate and pyx in locked cases and let the rest rent-free to rain and sheep.
Shall we avoid them as unlucky places?

Brothels

arybvtcw0eolkf

Turn 'em all into knocking shops.

Atoms for Peace

Forgot the e! Mods pleas chang.

EPAndlee

I'm sure a new cult will move in

wakka12

This is not a future problem, there is currently hundreds if not thousands of churches being abandoned across europe annually

Due to their architectural merit they are usually listed buildings and are converted into a range of other building types

heres a thread with examples of churches being converted to hosues apartments museums sports venues anything really
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1730747

Noveight

An large old church suffering badly from damp in my locality fell in to disuse in the 60's when a newer one was built nearby. A lad bought it, knocked out part of the gable end and uses it as a garage for repairing cars now.

Perfect use for it really. Loads of space inside, large yard outside and a very high ceiling to allow for cars on jacks etc. Can't imagine he paid too much for it either! That's one such example, indeed it'll be interesting to see what people end up doing with them.

tylercheribini

I just hope there is enough priests around to officially deconsecrate them all,otherwise the sites cant possibly be used for other purposes.

endacl

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Forgot the e! Mods pleas chang.

Forgot another e there chief!

Kevin Finnerty

tylercheribini wrote: »

I just hope there is enough priests around to officially deconsecrate them all,otherwise the sites cant possibly be used for other purposes.

You can be sure they can.

"Deconsecrate".
Bit late for that.

Donald Trump

Get Pat Kenny and Gavin Henson on the job

Atoms for Peace

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

When churches will fall completely out of use, what we shall turn them into, if we shall keep.
A few cathedrals chronically on show, their parchment, plate and pyx in locked cases and let the rest rent-free to rain and sheep.
Shall we avoid them as unlucky places?

As they won’t fall out of use you won’t need to worry about what to do with them

This is a new low for trying to sneak in a catholic bashing thread under the radar.

freshpopcorn

The local do gooders want the homeless to shipped out to disused churches in the middle of know where for the night!

tylercheribini

Kevin Finnerty wrote: »

You can be sure they can.

"Deconsecrate".
Bit late for that.

Smiley face connoted irony.

pauliebdub

Raze them to the ground. Looking forward to the day.

Sal Butamol

They'll probably be turned into Mosques

have you a lot of empty churches yourself OP?

somefeen

Juniper Melodic Magnate wrote: »

As they won’t fall out of use you won’t need to worry about what to do with them

This is a new low for trying to sneak in a catholic bashing thread under the radar.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Less and less Catholics actually turn up for mass all the time. Surely a lot of churches will be become redundant eventually.
More atheists having babies and an aging population of practicing catholics

Franz Von Peppercorn

Some could be converted to mosques I suppose.

This is hardly new, as pointed out. There’s a building in howth that’s an ex Methodist church.

Lots more like that.

wakka12

Juniper Melodic Magnate wrote: »

As they won’t fall out of use you won’t need to worry about what to do with them

This is a new low for trying to sneak in a catholic bashing thread under the radar.

I dont know if youre joking
2% of brits germans and french attend church reguarly
Mostly elderly, who will soon be replaced by an almost totally atheist younger populations
There are many tens of thousands of churches across a large continent that once was 100% filled with god fearers, church abandonement is already a massive issue across europe

hatrickpatrick

As far as I'm concerned, the Criminal Assets Bureau should be seizing land from religions institutions complicit in sexual and physical abuse of children, and using the proceeds to pay compensation. This would most likely require constitutional change since the land itself isn't the proceeds of crime, but it's an asset belonging to a criminal organisation nonetheless.

Franz Von Peppercorn

pauliebdub wrote: »

Raze them to the ground. Looking forward to the day.

You and the Isis lads should get together. They hate churches and statues. Idolatry!

First stop. Christchurch.

Future generations will venerate you if you tear that down. Nobody likes it.

wakka12

pauliebdub wrote: »

Raze them to the ground. Looking forward to the day.

The beautiful buildings didnt do anything wrong. What a retarded idea.

The Pheasant2

Rent them out for raves

Franz Von Peppercorn

wakka12 wrote: »

I dont know if youre joking
2% of brits germans and french attend church reguarly
Mostly elderly, who will soon be replaced by an almost totally atheist younger populations
There are many tens of thousands of churches across a large continent that once was 100% filled with god fearers, church abandonement is already a massive issue across europe

Doesn’t mean those churches of architectural value are going away.

How many Anglican cathedrals are in trouble? None.

They are tourist traps.

Franz Von Peppercorn

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Rent them out for raves

Edgy.

Of course there’s a bar in Dublin which is a converted church. That’s something that will happen.

Knocking down the buildings isn’t. They will be protected and listed.

somefeen

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, the Criminal Assets Bureau should be seizing land from religions institutions complicit in sexual and physical abuse of children, and using the proceeds to pay compensation. This would most likely require constitutional change since the land itself isn't the proceeds of crime, but it's an asset belonging to a criminal organisation nonetheless.

Can you really do that though without taking away someone's ability to practice their religion?

punisher5112

Burn em burn em all.

Sinead O'Connor would be delighted to have them.

Many have been as mentioned turned into all sorts of different things from fruit and veg shops to housing etc.

wakka12

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Doesn’t mean those churches of architectural value are going away.

How many Anglican cathedrals are in trouble? None.

They are tourist traps.

Yeh the ones in tourist towns will be kept, and ones in urban centres will probably find new uses too
But think about all the many thousands of quiet little towns and villages across europe with massively declining and ageing populations that have large churches or a cathedral, what do they do wiht them? Sadly over the next few decades many thousands of beautiful churches across europe will lie in ruin, despite our best efforts to maintain and reuse them. theres only so much money around to restore these expensive and innumerable buildings and only so many uses you can give them
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3736041/Abandoned-Haunting-images-reveal-grand-churches-Europe-left-rot-ruin.html

Franz Von Peppercorn

somefeen wrote: »

Can you really do that though without taking away someone's ability to practice their religion?

His constitutional amendment is a bit scary. However I think the cost of the abuse scandals should be borne by the churches. They can then sell off what they need.

Noveight

iirc there's a hotel in Donegal which uses an old church as it's breakfast room / restaurant.

Franz Von Peppercorn

wakka12 wrote: »

Yeh the ones in tourist towns will be kept, and ones in urban centres will probably find new uses too
But think about all the many thousands of quiet little towns and villages across europe with massively declining and ageing populations that have large churches or a cathedral, what do they do wiht them? Sadly over the next few decades many thousands of beautiful churches across europe will lie in ruin, despite our best efforts to maintain and reuse them. theres only so much money around to restore these expensive and innumerable buildings and only so many uses you can give them
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3736041/Abandoned-Haunting-images-reveal-grand-churches-Europe-left-rot-ruin.html

Great pictures. Every single one of those buildings could be restored as church museums, theatres, libraries or churches again.

There’s a cathedral in wells in England , which is a small place famous only for the cathedral. Pop 10k.

If only 5-10% go to church it would have very little reason for existance, it is however jammed with tourists.

punisher5112

Like the 2nd most smallest church in Carrick on Shannon.... Full of tourists... Which let's be honest isn't hard as it's so tight..

Pretzill

Potential repurposed mosques? Isn't that the populist religion in favour now?

All fairytale to me.

Would make nice arboretums, either

Franz Von Peppercorn

Some of the best music gigs I ever went to were in Union Chapel in London - a converted church. Many churches lend themselves to being music venues.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Some could be converted to mosques I suppose.

Perhaps.

"Maybe within our childrens’ lifetime the Vatican will become the European Museum of Roman Catholicism. And maybe mecca will become Disney’s Magic Kingdom of Allah. If you think that’s funny just bare in mind that the hagia Sofia in Istanbul started off as a church, then it was a mosque, and today it’s a museum."
--> Daniel Dennett.

MarkY91

As an atheist, I wouldn't like to see churches knocked down. Slot of them in Ireland are beautiful. Obviously not a patch on the ones on mainland Europe but once you see Catholic churches in Asia, you'll appreciate how beautiful they are here.

The link in the 2nd post really shows what we can do with some empty churches. I would be all for that!

Oh and what's the history of "the church" bar just off Henry Street, Dublin? Why was it abandoned and when? It's an old church now bar/nightclub. Inside is bizarre and stunning at the same time.

PlaneSpeeking

Oh look, a "slag off the Catholics" thread.

Must be Wednesday.

whisky_galore

Italy is full of churches that hardly anyone goes to (to worship that is). Then again many of them are tourist attractions as they're richly decorated.
Ours, esp. the plainer and the more modern ones, will hardly fall into that category.

Probably the smaller ones could be converted to dwellings. Maybe conversions to community halls, or commercial units/artists' studios/arthouse cinemas/mosques in urban centres. However there's the typical Irish reluctance to convert old buildings to new uses because it's too much like hard work.

Graces7

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Oh look, a "slag off the Catholics" thread.

Must be Wednesday.

Sooooooo boringly predictable and as usual inaccurate...

It reminds me of the summer I was in Yugoslavia.It was the year of the Czech political upheaval... many who were on holiday were not able to get home

I went into a disused church that was on the verge of collapse and there were flowers on the altar .. that is what I do here too..

Places where there has been Prayer and faith. Faith and prayer will never end.

Hate seeing them turned into other things. Rather into ruin. Would love to live in one and bring it back to prayer and faith.. There are a few on the market just now..

verycool

donaldtramp

Considering that most of the people giving out about the housing crisis also gave out about the Church, I don't think we can do anything at all?

Did you forget that we practically drove the Church out of Ireland and they are no longer a daily part of our lives?
We owe them nothing, it's a private organization, they will likely sell any churches for funds if they want to, but more likely keep them there at their own will.

TomSweeney

Sal Butamol wrote: »

They'll probably be turned into Mosques

This is true, liberals will scoff at it as being fearmongering, but look at the numbers, it's simple - it's the only growing religion (and rapidly) in the country.




But now now, let's all be tolerant.

JupiterKid

They can be used for a variety of functions, from housing to galleries to community centres (which they acted as anyway in a way) to libraries - the list is endless.

And in our urban areas where space for housing is needed the most that the churches will be abandoned and decobsecrated first, due to dwindling mass attendance. The huge 1960s church in Finglas West is to be demolished soon and more are bound to follow.

Many older churches are beautiful structures that are worth preserving.

I see someone posted up a photo of convicted Norwegian Black Metal Odinist Varg Vikerenes. He and others burned a number of churches in Norway in the 90s. Burning churches is wanton destruction and not the answer.

Re-use them if possible, for housing especially in our pressured urban areas.

Sleepy

Dermot Bannon can slap a few glass boxes onto the sides of them and flog them to the gullible.

sdraobs

Great thread original poster.

I wonder if the church will hand them back to the public (which in practical terms will be the state).

In case anyone doesnt know, the money for building them and the land came from local population not from the Vatican.

The church in Athy, Kildare was turned into a library. Great use in my opinion.

I heard a few athiests in hipster east london set up an alternative to the church (link) https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/02/so-tell-me-about-your-faith-journey-sunday-morning-at-the-atheist-church/

hatrickpatrick

somefeen wrote: »

Can you really do that though without taking away someone's ability to practice their religion?

It's a tough one to call when the organisation behind that religion is also a gigantic criminal conspiracy worthy of "proscribed" status, which is what I advocate for the Catholic clergy until every last one of them who either practised, covered up, or turned a blind eye to child abuse has been turned over to the secular authorities for criminal prosecution. As far as I'm concerned, right now the clergy are deserving of a RICO style status, seeing as the organisation is utterly rife with collusion and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice by not reporting crimes, and obstructing investigations.

Franz Von Peppercorn

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's a tough one to call when the organisation behind that religion is also a gigantic criminal conspiracy worthy of "proscribed" status, which is what I advocate for the Catholic clergy until every last one of them who either practised, covered up, or turned a blind eye to child abuse has been turned over to the secular authorities for criminal prosecution. As far as I'm concerned, right now the clergy are deserving of a RICO style status, seeing as the organisation is utterly rife with collusion and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice by not reporting crimes, and obstructing investigations.

Hmm. Banning Catholicism again, are we.

hatrickpatrick

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

His constitutional amendment is a bit scary. However I think the cost of the abuse scandals should be borne by the churches. They can then sell off what they need.

Is it, though? We already have CAB to go after the proceeds of crime. I'm merely taking that one step further by saying that the assets of criminal organisations, even those assets weren't directly procured with "dirty money", should be subject to "repossession" by the state in the event that there are debts of any kind - fines, compensation, repayments of heists, whatever - owed by that criminal organisation. In this particular case, we're talking about an organisation which conspired at the highest level to cover up the torture and rape of children, which owes ridiculous amounts of money to the victims thereof, and which owns considerable assets that would more than pay off the aforementioned debts.

I'd apply this to any organisation which owes money to the victims of its crime. If someone from the IRA, or ISIS, or the Kinahan-Hutch feud, or whatever was ordered to pay compensation to its victims or to the families of its victims, and that person either refused to pay or claimed not to have the money to pay, I don't see why the state shouldn't be able to seize some of their assets and liquidate them to cover the money owed. So if I was a gangster and a civil court ordered me to pay compensation to the family of someone I'd murdered, and I claimed I didn't have the money or otherwise refused to co-operate in paying it, in my view the Gardaí should be able to say "well you have a car sitting outside the courtroom which you drove to get to your hearing today, it's worth €30,000, so let's sell that for starters and use the cash to pay your court-ordered debts".

To me, that isn't an unreasonable setup. But that's just me.

hatrickpatrick

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Hmm. Banning Catholicism again, are we.

Banning catholicism (an ideology) and criminalising those who work for an organisation claiming to represent it, which also happens to be a massive criminal conspiracy, are not the same thing.

Did the state ban Irish Republicanism by proscribing the IRA?

EDIT: This scene from Three Billboards sums it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIjMqG8-H8c

byhookorbycrook

Errrm, does the OP realise that many COI buildings are disused- or it it strictly Catholic churches they want to discuss?

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's a tough one to call when the organisation behind that religion is also a gigantic criminal conspiracy worthy of "proscribed" status, which is what I advocate for the Catholic clergy until every last one of them who either practised, covered up, or turned a blind eye to child abuse has been turned over to the secular authorities for criminal prosecution. As far as I'm concerned, right now the clergy are deserving of a RICO style status, seeing as the organisation is utterly rife with collusion and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice by not reporting crimes, and obstructing investigations.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: