100km daily commute,12k budget max, anything out there?

marklazarcovic

As per title, 100 km is precise,so obviously I'd need 130+ at very least,that's just going to work and coming home,no veering off for a spin, would need to have that range for 5 years at least.. is there anything out there I could afford?

I'd love a ioniq but I know I'm screwed there..

Thanks for any input,Ev is the way forward,feck buying fuel for thousands a year in a car worth less than 2k.

Sabre Man

What kinds of speeds are you doing?

Gumbo

marklazarcovic wrote: »

As per title, 100 km is precise,so obviously I'd need 130+ at very least,that's just going to work and coming home,no veering off for a spin, would need to have that range for 5 years at least.. is there anything out there I could afford?

I'd love a ioniq but I know I'm screwed there..

Thanks for any input,Ev is the way forward,feck buying fuel for thousands a year in a car worth less than 2k.

I think you fall into the bracket that cannot be sorted here.
the 24kwh Leaf will do the 100km all day long, but you say you need 130km?
You need a 30kwh Leaf, but you wont get one for 12k.

Ioniq, you need double near triple your budget.

marklazarcovic

Sabre Man wrote: »

What kinds of speeds are you doing?

80-100kph would be the norm,no motorway

marklazarcovic

kceire wrote: »

I think you fall into the bracket that cannot be sorted here.
the 24kwh Leaf will do the 100km all day long, but you say you need 130km?
You need a 30kwh Leaf, but you wont get one for 12k.

Ioniq, you need double near triple your budget.

Yea,the 24 won't do the 100 for 5 yrs I'm guessing,100 is my minimum commute daily

ELM327

You might get a Zoe ZE40 on lease for that from the UK., But then you'd have a battery lease payment.

The absolute minimum you'd need to spend is 16k for the leaf 30. The 24 won't cut it. I had one!

I now have an Ioniq - which if you can extend the 12k by 2 and a bit times - I would reccomend as it is a brilliant EV.

Sabre Man

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Yea,the 24 won't do the 100 for 5 yrs I'm guessing,100 is my minimum commute daily

Too tight in the winter.

Silent Running

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Yea,the 24 won't do the 100 for 5 yrs I'm guessing,100 is my minimum commute daily

Any chance of charging at work?

marklazarcovic

Silent Running wrote: »

Any chance of charging at work?

Believe it or not we have a ev charger in work as they trialed ev vans a few years back ,but they were not up to much at that time,so its idle,and they won't allow it's use. Colleague has the 24 leaf and they refused him.

Silent Running

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Believe it or not we have a ev charger in work as they trialed ev vans a few years back ,but they were not up to much at that time,so its idle,and they won't allow it's use. Colleague has the 24 leaf and they refused him.

Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Would it be worth pursuing it a bit further? If you could get work charging sorted, your budget would get you into a 24kWh Leaf.

marklazarcovic

Silent Running wrote: »

Well, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Would it be worth pursuing it a bit further? If you could get work charging sorted, your budget would get you into a 24kWh Leaf.

Semi state company too, "it will cost us to charge your car". Official line. I'm going to enquire more with higher up.

Silent Running

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Semi state company too, "it will cost us to charge your car". Official line. I'm going to enquire more with higher up.

Maybe you could offer to pay the cost of the electricity used. You shouldn't have to. That's a disgraceful attitude from an employer, especially a semi-state. Moreso that they don't have to install the fricken charger. :mad:

marklazarcovic

Silent Running wrote: »

Maybe you could offer to pay the cost of the electricity used. You shouldn't have to. That's a disgraceful attitude from an employer, especially a semi-state. Moreso that they don't have to install the fricken charger. :mad:

I floated that and was told it would be too complicated to charge me!

Soarer

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Semi state company too, "it will cost us to charge your car". Official line. I'm going to enquire more with higher up.

It also costs them to charge everyone's laptop and mobile.
Do they allow showers? They'd cost more per day than your car.
What about milk/tea/coffee/fruit? All cost more per day than your car.

Silent Running

marklazarcovic wrote: »

I floated that and was told it would be too complicated to charge me!

Maybe you could float the green credential benefits. Not that a semi-state would give a tiny rats arse about that.:D

marklazarcovic

Soarer wrote: »

It also costs them to charge everyone's laptop and mobile.
Do they allow showers? They'd cost more per day than your car.
What about milk/tea/coffee/fruit? All cost more per day than your car.

Mainly outdoor staff,but I see your point with charging phones etc as there are at least 10 indoor staff,I'd say they are scared they will have a load of us seeing the benefits and wanting to charge at work,that's my feeling.

Shefwedfan

Get another few quid together and I might sell you the eGolf :-)

marklazarcovic

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Get another few quid together and I might sell you the eGolf :-)

,No more than 12 in my budget

Soarer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Get another few quid together and I might sell you the eGolf :-)

Would the Golf do that commute?

ted1

Soarer wrote: »

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Semi state company too, "it will cost us to charge your car". Official line. I'm going to enquire more with higher up.

It also costs them to charge everyone's laptop and mobile.
Do they allow showers? They'd cost more per day than your car.
What about milk/tea/coffee/fruit? All cost more per day than your car.

A shower wouldn’t cost more than charging an EV

Shefwedfan

Soarer wrote: »

Would the Golf do that commute?

Yeah, no problem. Worst day I will get 120km in winter and that is with heating and everything on and driving normally. Which for me is, lets just say not conservative



Summer time now I can get 170km no problem


Guy in Limerick, he doesn't drive like me. Will get 150-170 even in Winter. No idea how he does it.

Shefwedfan

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Mainly outdoor staff,but I see your point with charging phones etc as there are at least 10 indoor staff,I'd say they are scared they will have a load of us seeing the benefits and wanting to charge at work,that's my feeling.

I would guess you are right here, the fear is that if they allow one then everyone will want the same offering.



Especially semi state who are so PR right, afraid that someone will get the hump because XYZ got free fuel and they didnt get free diesel/petrol and next thing the unions are on about a strike....

Soarer

ted1 wrote: »

A shower wouldn’t cost more than charging an EV

Not in one go.

But half a dozen people using it every day....

Shefwedfan

Soarer wrote: »

It also costs them to charge everyone's laptop and mobile.
Do they allow showers? They'd cost more per day than your car.
What about milk/tea/coffee/fruit? All cost more per day than your car.

I dont think it is the point of how much it costs....it is more to do with one person getting an advantage over the other


Lets say they let OP charge their car, this is ok for a few weeks and then the normal Irish complainers work out that OP is getting free fuel to get to/from work. They have to pay 100 a week in diesel. Suddenly a complaint is made....xyz half of them are on strike....that is what is going through the head of PR person......

Orebro

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Semi state company too, "it will cost us to charge your car". Official line.

Hope it's not the ESB :-)

givyjoe

Soarer wrote: »

It also costs them to charge everyone's laptop and mobile.
Do they allow showers? They'd cost more per day than your car.
What about milk/tea/coffee/fruit? All cost more per day than your car.

Stop talking sense!

unkel

ted1 wrote: »

A shower wouldn’t cost more than charging an EV

Indeed. A 10 minute shower at 10kW uses 1.7kWh

To half charge a 24kWh Leaf uses 12kWh. Costing about €2 at full day rates.

These costs are negligible, non material compared to paying wages. Employers need to be educated on this.

FriendsEV

Vauxhaul Ampera would be in your budget and would do 60km on electric, rest on petrol

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201807188574050?advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=m52ty&page=1&make=VAUXHALL&fuel-type=Hybrid%20–%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

marklazarcovic

FriendsEV wrote: »

Vauxhaul Ampera would be in your budget and would do 60km on electric, rest on petrol

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201807188574050?advertising-location=at_cars&postcode=m52ty&page=1&make=VAUXHALL&fuel-type=Hybrid%20–%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

Gotta be full ev as I'm offsetting fuel costs towards cost of car,rather be in a nice car for 5 years than a 12 yr old ice .

Gumbo

Orebro wrote: »

Hope it's not the ESB :-)

All ESB offices I know of have EV chargers for staff.

ELM327

kceire wrote: »

All ESB offices I know of have EV chargers for staff.

I don't think the one in Santry does, but most of the large offices do.
And considering the staff get (or used to, when I used to deal with them) free domestic electricity as a perk, I can't see them charging for it at work

Gumbo

ELM327 wrote: »

I don't think the one in Santry does, but most of the large offices do.
And considering the staff get (or used to, when I used to deal with them) free domestic electricity as a perk, I can't see them charging for it at work

One in Santry 100% does. I’ve used it. (Swift Square)
It’s on a first come first served, although I don’t work there, my wife does.

You can actually see them in this google map
Unnamed Road, Santry Demesne, Dublin
https://goo.gl/maps/1YMCJ1TfjDU2

Idbatterim

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Gotta be full ev as I'm offsetting fuel costs towards cost of car,rather be in a nice car for 5 years than a 12 yr old ice .

What has the age of the car got to with being “nice” ? I think the original selling price would give you a better idea of its “niceness” or quality...

I’d up the budget to get 30kwh leaf, or how long would it take lads, for that car to depreciate to the ops budget? Alternatively but the 24 kWh leaf and simply drive a bit slower if it saves you a fortune on the car v an ice , which it will ...

ELM327

kceire wrote: »

One in Santry 100% does. I’ve used it. (Swift Square)
It’s on a first come first served, although I don’t work there, my wife does.

You can actually see them in this google map
Unnamed Road, Santry Demesne, Dublin
https://goo.gl/maps/1YMCJ1TfjDU2

The lyin' barstewards... I deal with a couple of people who work there. Perhaps as non EV drivers they weren't aware. But to be fair I had to go to Affidea there recently and I couldnt see an esb charger (i had a nosey, it was early of a weekend morning!)



I can't see it on that map, there's no street view available.

Silent Running

ELM327 wrote: »

The lyin' barstewards... I deal with a couple of people who work there. Perhaps as non EV drivers they weren't aware. But to be fair I had to go to Affidea there recently and I couldnt see an esb charger (i had a nosey, it was early of a weekend morning!)



I can't see it on that map, there's no street view available.

Click the satellite image in the bottom left corner of the map.

waynegalway

Idbatterim wrote: »

I’d up the budget to get 30kwh leaf, or how long would it take lads, for that car to depreciate to the ops budget?...

I was in similar position when shopping around last October. I was going to try and save a few more quid, and hope that 161 30kWh car would depreciate to my budget in January of this year.

I pulled the trigger and went with a 24 last November. Really glad I did, because prices for the 30 barely changed at all in the new year. It might change a bit now that some leases on the 30 might be ending in the UK, but 2nd hand prices seem to have stabilized (or even increased due to bigger demand).

OP: if you really can’t budge on the €12k and you can’t wait to save up a bit more, then really the only feasible option is to sort out the charger at work and get a 24kWh Leaf. I’m getting 100km (winter) and 120-130km (summer) range from mine. Mixture of L, R and N roads around Galway, so no crazy speeds.

Gumbo

ELM327 wrote: »

The lyin' barstewards... I deal with a couple of people who work there. Perhaps as non EV drivers they weren't aware. But to be fair I had to go to Affidea there recently and I couldnt see an esb charger (i had a nosey, it was early of a weekend morning!)



I can't see it on that map, there's no street view available.

Look at the satellite view. You can see the 2 bays painted.
It’s also behind a barrier that you need an access swipe to enter so the general public cannot get to it.

The ESB building is also shared with BMW HQ and I think they have some chargers in the basement.

marklazarcovic

waynegalway wrote: »

I was in similar position when shopping around last October. I was going to try and save a few more quid, and hope that 161 30kWh car would deprecate to my budget in January of this year.

I pulled the trigger and went with a 24 last November. Really glad I did, because prices for the 30 barely changed at all in the new year. It might change a bit now that some leases on the 30 might be ending in the UK, but 2nd hand prices seem to have stabilized (or even increased due to bigger demand).

OP: if you really can’t budge on the €12k and you can’t wait to save up a bit more, then really the only feasible option is to sort out the charger at work and get a 24kWh Leaf. I’m getting 100km (winter) and 120-130km (summer) range from mine. Mixture of L, R and N roads around Galway, so no crazy speeds.

Twould seem to be my only option alright.



Nothing stopping any country now making their own cars and buying in the batteries, I mean suspension and aerodynamics is all that's required now,no more motor tech needed?

A Yaris sized car with a 30kw would be absolutely fantastic commuter car

waynegalway

marklazarcovic wrote: »

A Yaris sized car with a 30kw would be absolutely fantastic commuter car

Not sure on 2nd hand prices (you may need to save a bit more), but you've described a Zoe there, IMO. (I know it's not 30kWh, and a Zoe is a bit bigger before anyone says anything, but in terms of car and battery size, it's a good approximation).

So have a look at the usual websites and see what the prices are like.

You don't say what size car you currently have, so maybe something the size of a Zoe wouldn't suit? I know when I was shopping around last year, the physical size of the Zoe was the main reason for me not pursuing a deal on one....the Leaf is simply better suited to my circumstances. Also, have a test drive in both a Zoe and a Leaf, seeing as they are the only two in (or close to) your budget, and see if that sways you. Not speaking from personal experience, but I've read that the Zoe is nippy round town but not as fast as a Leaf overall.

unkel

marklazarcovic wrote: »

A Yaris sized car with a 30kw would be absolutely fantastic commuter car

It's a pity that Toyota only make a Yaris with a 0.9kWh battery. The good news is that it is "self charging", you'll never even have to plug it in!

marklazarcovic

waynegalway wrote: »

Not sure on 2nd hand prices (you may need to save a bit more), but you've described a Zoe there, IMO. (I know it's not 30kWh, and a Zoe is a bit bigger before anyone says anything, but in terms of car and battery size, it's a good approximation).

So have a look at the usual websites and see what the prices are like.

You don't say what size car you currently have, so maybe something the size of a Zoe wouldn't suit? I know when I was shopping around last year, the physical size of the Zoe was the main reason for me not pursuing a deal on one....the Leaf is simply better suited to my circumstances. Also, have a test drive in both a Zoe and a Leaf, seeing as they are the only two in (or close to) your budget, and see if that sways you. Not speaking from personal experience, but I've read that the Zoe is nippy round town but not as fast as a Leaf overall.

A two seater purely for getting to work and back would suit me, enough room for a bag of shopping,it's what's costing me 4400 per year right now in fuel ,tax, insurance.

Have a 1.8 gen 8 civic petrol, I've tried the Diesel route a few times but I've found them totally unreliable ,always something with them, the ones I could afford anyway,lost a few quid on buying diesel and selling a year later coz of major faults. So I hate them now. I could never afford a diesel under 6 yrs old so never had the best of them.

The 1.8 is very good on fuel to be fair.

Could always have a 1.0 ltr aygo or similar as a back up car,cheap, reliable,low running costs,it's still better combining both a ev and a backup car for small money than staying as I am. Itching to stop buying fuel.

Probably need to wait a while.

waynegalway

marklazarcovic wrote: »

A two seater purely for getting to work and back would suit me, enough room for a bag of shopping,it's what's costing me 4400 per year right now in fuel ,tax, insurance.

Have a 1.8 gen 8 civic petrol, I've tried the Diesel route a few times but I've found them totally unreliable ,always something with them, the ones I could afford anyway,lost a few quid on buying diesel and selling a year later coz of major faults. So I hate them now. I could never afford a diesel under 6 yrs old so never had the best of them.

The 1.8 is very good on fuel to be fair.

Could always have a 1.0 ltr aygo or similar as a back up car,cheap, reliable,low running costs,it's still better combining both a ev and a backup car for small money than staying as I am. Itching to stop buying fuel.

Probably need to wait a while.

Totally with you on diesel! I had a 2l SAAB 93 (petrol) for 4 years and it was a great car. By the end of the 4 years it was about 12 years old, so I decided to stay on-brand and bought a 2007 TiD SAAB 93......what a complete disaster. A high-speed fan failed (unbeknownst to me) which meant the engine couldn't get hot enough to burn out the particulate filter. Long story short, the car calved about a year after I bought it. It was only worth scrappage money after that. Lost about 6k on it. In a year. Wouldn't go anywhere a modern diesel now. Bought a Civic (1.6 petrol) after that and it ran perfectly for 4 years. Sold it last November to change for the Leaf.


If a two seat runaround with room for a shopping bag would suit you, you should definitely have a look at a Zoe. I'd guess they can be got for around 12k, maybe a little more, and will do your commute with a bit more comfort (read: less range anxiety!) than the 24 Leaf.

optimal

marklazarcovic wrote: »

I floated that and was told it would be too complicated to charge me!

I can see it from their perspective. EVs will increase and if they offer free charging it will be difficult to roll back. They will also be beset with the same issues as the public network, people hogging the charger that could charge at home.

I suggest you calculate the amount of electricity you will use in a year, approach them and offer to pay them that amount in one or more fixed amounts and undertake to row in with any new arrangement they put in place later. Explain your plan and the environmental benefit. The last bit is important as public bodies are under increasing pressure on this. If you address each issue they raise they will find it hard to refuse.

Shefwedfan

optimal wrote: »

I can see it from their perspective. EVs will increase and if they offer free charging it will be difficult to roll back. They will also be beset with the same issues as the public network, people hogging the charger that could charge at home.

I suggest you calculate the amount of electricity you will use in a year, approach them and offer to pay them that amount in one or more fixed amounts and undertake to row in with any new arrangement they put in place later. Explain your plan and the environmental benefit. The last bit is important as public bodies are under increasing pressure on this. If you address each issue they raise they will find it hard to refuse.

It's semi state, they will not be able to accept a sum of money off employee. Either they roll out charging to all employees or they don't roll it out at all


This is not the fault of the semi state company mind you, this is the fault of the unions. If a semi state tries to do anything outside the box the unions will go nuts....

waynegalway

I'm going through this argument at work at the moment too, so it's interesting to read what others are experiencing. My employer is public sector (education), and they seem incredibly reluctant to provide free charging for employees. At the moment, there is only 2 staff (me in my Leaf and one other guy in a PHEV Ioniq), and we are sharing one of the original eCars 16a chargers that was installed for a research project back in 2012.

That particular charger will remain free of charge until a new system is in place, but they're on about charging in line with the pay and display rate, which is €1 an hour. They have specced a 7kW charger to be installed, so €1 an hour will create a profit for them. Not happy.

Silent Running

waynegalway wrote: »

I'm going through this argument at work at the moment too, so it's interesting to read what others are experiencing. My employer is public sector (education), and they seem incredibly reluctant to provide free charging for employees. At the moment, there is only 2 staff (me in my Leaf and one other guy in a PHEV Ioniq), and we are sharing one of the original eCars 16a chargers that was installed for a research project back in 2012.

That particular charger will remain free of charge until a new system is in place, but they're on about charging in line with the pay and display rate, which is €1 an hour. They have specced a 7kW charger to be installed, so €1 an hour will create a profit for them. Not happy.

Not having a go at you. but... If you're not happy, don't use the charger. Charge at home. The same argument will be made when commercial chargers are rolled out.

waynegalway

Silent Running wrote: »

Not having a go at you. but... If you're not happy, don't use the charger. Charge at home. The same argument will be made when commercial chargers are rolled out.

Fair enough, I'm in a good enough position (about a 25km round trip daily commute) that I don't need to charge at work.

But the principle is the thing, and for others, not for me.

Where I work is looking for a "green flag" at the moment, and they've asked me to put together a presentation on what it's like to drive and own an EV as part of their bid. So on the one hand they see the benefits, and want to get prestige off the back of environmentally considerate transport. While the other hand is sticking up its middle finger at those that are actually trying to make a difference by leading by example.

It's a different debate, but the amount of money it would cost is a pittance compared to where I see money being, well, misspent shall we say, in the public sector.

I know that there are a number of my colleagues who would could justify getting an EV if they could charge for free at work, but who won't buy one if they are being ripped off by an employer that wants to flaunt green credentials while doing nothing more than paying lip service.

Silent Running

waynegalway wrote: »

Fair enough, I'm in a good enough position (about a 25km round trip daily commute) that I don't need to charge at work.

But the principle is the thing, and for others, not for me.

Where I work is looking for a "green flag" at the moment, and they've asked me to put together a presentation on what it's like to drive and own an EV as part of their bid. So on the one hand they see the benefits, and want to get prestige off the back of environmentally considerate transport. While the other hand is sticking up its middle finger at those that are actually trying to make a difference by leading by example.

It's a different debate, but the amount of money it would cost is a pittance compared to where I see money being, well, misspent shall we say, in the public sector.

I know that there are a number of my colleagues who would could justify getting an EV if they could charge for free at work, but who won't buy one if they are being ripped off by an employer that wants to flaunt green credentials while doing nothing more than paying lip service.

Yep, they're taking the piss a bit with the green credentials part, when they are not actively promoting green driving.

The thing to remember for employers is that not every employee will go electric immediately. Charging would initially only be needed for a few cars.

General question: is there any incentive available for employers to provide charging for employees, or businesses to provide for their customers?

Soarer

Have you done the maths for them?

As in, the standard rate of electricity with electric Ireland is ~18c per kw/h.
Worst case, if you were to come to work every day at empty, and charged to full, including charging losses, it'd cost them around €4.70. Not exactly breaking the bank for a semi state.

Their daily supply of tea/coffee/milk/fruit/phone charging/etc. is cost them many multiples of that.

Gumbo

Wayne I wouldn’t put together the presentation or if you you have to, the make sure it’s really well known within the presentation that no chargers are available and if they’re, what the benefits would be.

waynegalway

kceire wrote: »

Wayne I wouldn’t put together the presentation or if you you have to, the make sure it’s really well known within the presentation that no chargers are available and if they’re, what the benefits would be.

No, I don’t have to do it. It’s just that I was the first person to get one at work, so they asked me. There’s about 500 staff, so I’m sure there will be more in time.

I’d be happy to do it, because I think the word is worth spreading, but what I’d like to include is examples of how other workplaces deal with providing charge points. The presentation would give me a nice public platform to compare what I suspect is a very draconian proposal at my workplace with the progressive approach by others.

So: workplace charging stories please! Credit will be given if you wish!

OP: apologies for this tangent to your post, but I think it’s still relevant to your original question as it might help you argue the point for a workplace charger too.