OpenEVSE - 20% off at the moment

n97 mini

Just took the plunge and ordered a 40 amp kit, without the cable or plug (I'll use both from our existing Chargemaster, and re-unite them (and sell them) when we go type-2 in the future).

Comes to about €260 landed, though from the US, so not without customs risks.

https://store.openevse.com/collections/all-products/products/advanced-kit

ted1

Compatible with 230v and 50Hz?

unkel

Interesting stuff. I like the open source idea, probably a bit of a community behind it too. Also like that you can divert solar PV to your EV with it. The way the system works seems pretty rudimentary though. That said it's a lot cheaper than a Zappi

I've been toying with the idea of selling the ABL charger (that I upgraded myself from 16A to 32A) I got for free through the old ESB EV charger scheme and buying a smart charger. But I think I'll sit on the fence on this one for some time to come...

unkel

ted1 wrote: »

Compatible with 230v and 50Hz?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it works in the UK. I've seen the OpenEVSE charger mentioned several times on UK EV forums

n97 mini

ted1 wrote: »

Compatible with 230v and 50Hz?

Both.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Interesting stuff. I like the open source idea, probably a bit of a community behind it too. Also like that you can divert solar PV to your EV with it. The way the system works seems pretty rudimentary though. That said it's a lot cheaper than a Zappi

I've been toying with the idea of selling the ABL charger (that I upgraded myself from 16A to 32A) I got for free through the old ESB EV charger scheme and buying a smart charger. But I think I'll sit on the fence on this one for some time to come...

What I like about it is the consumption monitor. In the early days we had the granny cable plugged into a D-link smart plug which showed how many kw/h per day/month we were using. With the current (32A) setup that's not possible.

n97 mini

My build is nearing completion, and I was wondering does anyone have a hydraulic crimper I could borrow to crimp tabs onto 6mm2 cable? (Or I could possibly solder them either).

n97 mini

Number 5 is alive! Unfortunately during testing this evening I discovered the pilot wire in the tethered cable I bought has a break in it, so it has to go back. Otherwise I'm very impressed so far... Some very nice emoncms integration.

unkel

Good work!

I have a solar MC4 connector crimper if you want to to borrow it. Would probably do the job. Like this:

n97 mini

Thanks for the offer, appreciate it! I discovered my soldering iron (18w) is actually powerful/hot enough to solder the lugs. My crimper did a barely acceptable job, but I was able to solder them after crimping, so there's no way they're not up to the job now!

unkel

Belt and braces

n97 mini

Thought I had updated this thread. I bought a type-1 tethered cable on ebay for a good price. Turns out the pilot wire (the one that tells the car what the capabilities of the EVSE are) has a break in it somewhere. The seller has refunded me, but I still have the 5m cable and type-1 plug.



Does anyone have an AC cable finder I could borrow? The one that helps find cables in walls etc.

mrkayak

n97 mini wrote: »

Number 5 is alive! Unfortunately during testing this evening I discovered the pilot wire in the tethered cable I bought has a break in it, so it has to go back. Otherwise I'm very impressed so far... Some very nice emoncms integration.

I'm just about to order an OpenEVSE from the US.
Were you able to claim the SEAI grant for the installation?

n97 mini

mrkayak wrote: »

I'm just about to order an OpenEVSE from the US.
Were you able to claim the SEAI grant for the installation?

Grant didn't exist when I purchased, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't qualify. Btw there's also a UK distributor. May or may not work out cheaper.

mrkayak

n97 mini wrote: »

Grant didn't exist when I purchased, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't qualify. Btw there's also a UK distributor. May or may not work out cheaper.

thanks, I think I'll go ahead with OpenEVSE.

From the UK, it's 455 euro delivered.
From the US, it's 380 euro delivered.

Don't know if there's any customs duty which might get added.
As long as it's <= 75 euro, then it looks like the US option is cheaper.

n97 mini

mrkayak wrote: »

thanks, I think I'll go ahead with OpenEVSE.

From the UK, it's 455 euro delivered.
From the US, it's 380 euro delivered.

Don't know if there's any customs duty which might get added.
As long as it's <= 75 euro, then it looks like the US option is cheaper.

It's very likely 23% vat will be added by customs if you order from the US. That's 87 euro.

I bought my (used) 5m cable with fitted plug on eBay. Lots there and way cheaper than buying new.

mrkayak

n97 mini wrote: »

It's very likely 23% vat will be added by customs if you order from the US. That's 87 euro.

I bought my (used) 5m cable with fitted plug on eBay. Lots there and way cheaper than buying new.

oh, in that case the UK option is probably better.
For your 5m cable, do you mean the 'charge cable' (SAE J1772) from the charger to the car? or the 'input cable' from the charger to the fusebox (mcb)?

The charge cable seems to come with the OpenEVSE as part of the kit.
For the 'input cable', I'm asking electrician to run 32A cable from mcb to charger.
Is that what you did?

thanks!

mrkayak

mrkayak wrote: »

oh, in that case the UK option is probably better.
For your 5m cable, do you mean the 'charge cable' (SAE J1772) from the charger to the car? or the 'input cable' from the charger to the fusebox (mcb)?

The charge cable seems to come with the OpenEVSE as part of the kit.
For the 'input cable', I'm asking electrician to run 32A cable from mcb to charger.
Is that what you did?

thanks!

edit:
the charge cable (I need type-2) is extra 165 euro on the UK site.
But it's included in the price on the US site.

eBay has tethered 32A type-2 charge cable for euro 170 delivered.

n97 mini

I bought the "Advanced Kit" which doesn't come with a charge cable. It's currently $239 plus shipping (and probably plus VAT).

https://store.openevse.com/products/advanced-kit

You've to buy the Advanced Kit Bundle to get the cable, which adds $135.

This is the equivalent kit from the UK (select the optional wifi to get like for like):
https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/openevse-wifi-emoncms-ev-charging-station-diy-kit/

^ Again that one doesn't come with a cable. You need to buy one on ebay, or get this:
https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/tethered-ev-charging-cable-32a/

The input cable is cheap 6mm2, but your sparks will have to do that bit anyway as it involves opening the consumer unit.

n97 mini

Finished auction, but this is the type of thing you're looking for on ebay. 32 amp, 5 metre, type-2 for £50.

mrkayak

n97 mini wrote: »

I bought the "Advanced Kit" which doesn't come with a charge cable. It's currently $239 plus shipping (and probably plus VAT).

https://store.openevse.com/products/advanced-kit

You've to buy the Advanced Kit Bundle to get the cable, which adds $135.

This is the equivalent kit from the UK (select the optional wifi to get like for like):
https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/openevse-wifi-emoncms-ev-charging-station-diy-kit/

^ Again that one doesn't come with a cable. You need to buy one on ebay, or get this:
https://shop.openenergymonitor.com/tethered-ev-charging-cable-32a/

The input cable is cheap 6mm2, but your sparks will have to do that bit anyway as it involves opening the consumer unit.

ok, like for like:

From US: advanced kit bundle (with cable) = EURO 380 delivered
From UK: kit + wifi + cable = EURO 627 delivered

I guess the US version is without vat (approx 100 euro based on the UK one), *and* the UK distro is adding a bit of a markup.
Even with VAT/taxes/customs, the US option seems a good bit less.

thanks!

n97 mini

Just make sure you can get the Type-2 plug from the US. I only see J1772, which is Type-1 and not what you're after.

I think you might not be able to, as J1772 is standard in the US, no cars come with Type-2.

mrkayak

n97 mini wrote: »

Just make sure you can get the Type-2 plug from the US. I only see J1772, which is Type-1 and not what you're after.

I think you might not be able to, as J1772 is standard in the US, no cars come with Type-2.

It's the type-2 bundle (for rest-of-world):
Advanced Series - 32A IEC Type 2 Mennekes Kit Bundle

https://store.openevse.com/collections/all-products/products/advanced-series-32a-iec-type-2-kit-bundle

Includes:
-OpenEVSE Advanced Kit
-5m IEC Type 2 Single Phase Mennekes Cable

thanks for helping me double-check
seems to be ok

KCross

n97_mini, is it worth it relative to buying a Zappi off the shelf? Assuming the Zappi worked smoothly, of course!

Seems like similar money based on what has been posted above and you have to factor in your time to put it together. What is the advantage of this kit?

Are there any issues around CE quality marks and installing uncertified equipment in your house or is it certified? Just thinking would a spark have an issue signing off on it? Do you know or is that untested waters?

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

n97_mini, is it worth it relative to buying a Zappi off the shelf? Assuming the Zappi worked smoothly, of course!

Seems like similar money based on what has been posted above and you have to factor in your time to put it together. What is the advantage of this kit?

Are there any issues around CE quality marks and installing uncertified equipment in your house or is it certified? Just thinking would a spark have an issue signing off on it? Do you know or is that untested waters?

I don't have a Zappi, so I can't compare other than the price. Mine cost about €360 including the cable. (It took about 45 minutes to assemble.)

It's CE approved -- it's being sold in the EU through official distributors.

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

I don't have a Zappi, so I can't compare other than the price. Mine cost about €360 including the cable. (It took about 45 minutes to assemble.)

It's CE approved -- it's being sold in the EU through official distributors.

Were you just lucky on the price? It seems to have increased significantly.

Did you have to do any programming or is all that ready out of the box?

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

Were you just lucky on the price? It seems to have increased significantly.

No, it's still the same price, $239 plus shipping ($42) = €252 at today's fx rates. VAT another €60, and second hand cable was about €40 (I think, it was cheap anyway).

KCross wrote: »

Did you have to do any programming or is all that ready out of the box?

It's all ready to roll out of the box.

_ned_

Does it do automatic grid load management? I.e. if the house is drawing too much current, the EVSE will throttle down the charge to the car. This is the main reason I went for a Zappi.

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

No, it's still the same price, $239 plus shipping ($42) = €252 at today's fx rates. VAT another €60, and second hand cable was about €40 (I think, it was cheap anyway).

ok, I was just going on mrkayak's price of €380.
I guess the difference is you bought a s/h cable.

n97 mini

_ned_ wrote: »

Does it do automatic grid load management? I.e. if the house is drawing too much current, the EVSE will throttle down the charge to the car. This is the main reason I went for a Zappi.

It can do, but not out of the box. You need to add some stuff to the setup.

KCross wrote: »

ok, I was just going on mrkayak's price of €380.
I guess the difference is you bought a s/h cable.

Yeah, I realised that plenty of people are swapping just the cables on the existing chargers when they change car. Usually from Type-1 to Type-2, so second hand Type-1 cables are cheap and plentiful.

n97 mini

I dunno if this is still the case, but the way the Zappi and and OpenEVSE handle solar is quite different. If power drops Zappi will stop charging the car, OpenEVSE won't. In this particular example Zappi stopped charging 11 times in a 5 hour period. There is concern this will wear out contactors in the charger and in the car.

https://community.openenergymonitor.org/t/zappie-evse-solar-pv-divert/5808

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

I dunno if this is still the case, but the way the Zappi and and OpenEVSE handle solar is quite different. If power drops Zappi will stop charging the car, OpenEVSE won't. In this particular example Zappi stopped charging 11 times in a 5 hour period. There is concern this will wear out contactors in the charger and in the car.

https://community.openenergymonitor.org/t/zappie-evse-solar-pv-divert/5808

It configurable.
You have ECO+ mode which will pause the charge session. i.e. Charge the car with Solar ONLY.
Then there is ECO mode which will continue the charge session and pull the shortfall from the grid.

unkel

Isn't the main reason people buy a Zappi that it can charge the car only when there is excess solar PV (ECO+ mode)*? There's no point plugging in your car if half the time it is drawing full day rate electricity from the grid. Cheaper to just charge at night. the OpenEVSE can't do this? Then what's the point of getting one?

I wouldn't worry about issues with the charging system in the car. All EVs now have 8 year warranty on drive train / battery


*and that it acts as a priority switch so people with an electric shower or another very high power appliance don't have to get one installed

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Isn't the main reason people buy a Zappi that it can charge the car only when there is excess solar PV (ECO+ mode)*? There's no point plugging in your car if half the time it is drawing full day rate electricity from the grid. Cheaper to just charge at night. the OpenEVSE can't do this? Then what's the point of getting one?

OpenEVSE will modulate the charge up and down to match surplus. The point is it won't repeatedly stop and start during a session.

I'm not sure which strategy is better, as I've no idea what the lifespan of the contactors is.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Then what's the point of getting one?[/SIZE]

For me, it's the online data logging, built-in wifi, easy configuration with it's one web page, etc. Being totally open source helps. Combined with being able to assemble it myself (which was really easy) and it came at a good price.

Zappi has no online/wifi stuff at all. You'll need to buy a hub thing (€100) that hasn't been released yet.

unkel

Most EVs charge at 6A minimum (1.4kW). So if your small solar PV array of say 2kwp normally would cover your base load plus 1.4kW car charging in full sun light, happy days, but then as soon as there is a cloud:

OpenEVSE will still charge it at 1.4kW (you can't go below that) using premium electricity?
Zappi will stop charging immediately if it can't charge at least the full 1.4kW fully with surplus PV?

I'm glad I haven't bought into either system yet as I obviously still don't know fully how they work

It's unlikely I will as I plan to go for a battery setup instead, which is cheaper and holds its value better. But good to know how either system works as this whole renewable lark has turned itself into a hobby at this stage

KCross

n97 mini wrote: »

OpenEVSE will modulate the charge up and down to match surplus. The point is it won't repeatedly stop and start during a session.

With OpenEVSE strategy you wont know day to day whether its better to plug it in and grab excess solar or wait until night time because the clouds could roll in and then the majority of the charging is done with expensive day rate electricity.

Zappi gives you flexibility to decide... Solar excess only (clouds dont matter, it will modulate) and then boost the remainder at night. Or go with ECO mode and give a guaranteed amount of charge by a certain time and then the remainder at night.

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm not sure which strategy is better, as I've no idea what the lifespan of the contactors is.

Tough call alright. Only time will tell whether the contactors are up to it.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

Most EVs charge at 6A minimum (1.4kW). So if your small solar PV array of say 2kwp normally would cover your base load plus 1.4kW car charging in full sun light, happy days, but then as soon as there is a cloud:

OpenEVSE will still charge it at 1.4kW (you can't go below that) using premium electricity?
Zappi will stop charging immediately if it can't charge at least the full 1.4kW fully with surplus PV?

I'm glad I haven't bought either system yet as I obviously still don't know fully how they work

Only a sadist would try to charge such a massive battery with such a tiny array! Use the built-in timer and just charge at night instead.

Unfortunately I think there are people with very small arrays that are buying chargers like Zappi because they haven't done the maths. Small array won't generate enough surplus to justify the extra cost of the Zappi.

n97 mini

KCross wrote: »

With OpenEVSE strategy you wont know day to day whether its better to plug it in and grab excess solar or wait until night time because the clouds could roll in and then the majority of the charging is done with expensive day rate electricity.

Absolutely. Though if your PV array is big enough and your surplus is always going to be closer to 1.4kw even on cloudy days, then you could risk it. But that would be a big array.

KCross wrote: »

Zappi gives you flexibility to decide... Solar excess only (clouds dont matter, it will modulate) and then boost the remainder at night. Or go with ECO mode and give a guaranteed amount of charge by a certain time and then the remainder at night.

"Boost" is really just a timer for night rate, as the charger has no clue what's actually plugged into it (if it's the same car etc). Night rate is cheap and predictable, and I would say generally the better option unless your PV setup is on the large side.

KCross wrote: »

Tough call alright. Only time will tell whether the contactors are up to it.

Yep. I don't see charging the car on solar in my future. It's just too cheap and predictable to plug it in at night.

_ned_

"Yep. I don't see charging the car on solar in my future. It's just too cheap and predictable to plug it in at night. "
ESB: €4,800 (inc. VAT); Cork 1610 kWh (Savings: €253 @18.5 cents/kWh).
At nightrate, savings about €126 p.a. Payback time: about 38 years.
At dayrate, payback is 19 years.
And that assumes you can self-consume all the PV.
I'd love to do it, but it needs to be more economic that that.

unkel

n97 mini wrote: »

Night rate is cheap and predictable, and I would say generally the better option unless your PV setup is on the large side.

I've 3.8kwp and I have every intention of charging my car as much as I can with solar PV, hopefully for 100% for most of the year. this will be impossible without either a smart charger or a battery though. But I intend to get a battery soon.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I've 3.8kwp and I have every intention of charging my car as much as I can with solar PV, hopefully for 100% for most of the year. this will be impossible without either a smart charger or a battery though. But I intend to get a battery soon.

Won’t the end-end losses of charging a battery from a battery be “huge”? Is that really viable? Maybe for a few months but not for long I’d say.

n97 mini

unkel wrote: »

I've 3.8kwp and I have every intention of charging my car as much as I can with solar PV, hopefully for 100% for most of the year. this will be impossible without either a smart charger or a battery though. But I intend to get a battery soon.

If you really want to, you could use an OpenEVSE, just not using the off the shelf solar pv solution. You can turn the power on or off, up or down over your network using mqtt or http. Should be simple to implement something.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Won’t the end-end losses of charging a battery from a battery be “huge”? Is that really viable?

Like anyone using Solar PV to charge their car, the solar DC has to be converted to AC to charge the car. Any conversion has losses

Only when the battery is picking up the slack (when it starts to rain / is completely overcast for a while), you get a lot of extra losses: solar DC has to be converted to AC then AC to battery DC then battery DC to AC to charge the car. Lots of conversions, so lots of losses alright

The losses don't matter too much though. My panels are there now, they're a sunk cost. Better charge my car (after sometimes big losses) than just sending it back to the grid for free, although I have no problem with that either

Haven't done any of this yet, I'll experiment and let you know

_ned_

It would be cool if you could do a DC-DC conversion from PV to the DC port on the car. Less losses. But I've no idea what the protocols for high-voltage charging are like or if there is a minimum charge current like there is for AC charging. In theory, you should be able to deliver a near-constant voltage with a current varying on PV production. With 3.8kWp, you could deliver all of the varying PV to the car, whatever the output, hail, rain or shine. And the efficiencies would be good because of just one conversion.

unkel

_ned_ wrote: »

It would be cool if you could do a DC-DC conversion from PV to the DC port on the car.

It would indeed!

Would be easy enough too, to match the size of your array so you would get the right voltage for the battery for a direct feed. I guess it would just work if you hooked up your DC from the panels directly onto the positive and negative terminals of the car's high voltage battery, but somehow I have no intention to try this

_ned_

Hehe, it would need to be done very well!