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Diabetic-v-Sugar Free?

  • 28-07-2018 8:55pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,238 ✭✭✭


    Am trying to keep the family sugar's down, but they are big fans of jams/marmalade. Im confused reading these labels, reduced sugar, sugar-free, sweetener added, diabetic recipes.

    what is the difference in these, in terms of my situation? besides that diabetic is obviously made for ppl with the condition.

    "Have you ever wagged your tail so hard you fell over"?-Brod Higgins.



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭accensi0n


    Use the back label, not the front.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,901 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Bredabe wrote: »
    Im confused reading these labels, reduced sugar, sugar-free, sweetener added, diabetic recipes.
    Sugar free means zero sugar. Reduced sugar is relative, a reduced sugar jam could still be full of sugar.

    As suggested, look at the nutritional label for black and white info.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,238 ✭✭✭Bredabe


    Mellor wrote: »
    Sugar free means zero sugar. Reduced sugar is relative, a reduced sugar jam could still be full of sugar.

    As suggested, look at the nutritional label for black and white info.

    So if it says its sugar-free, its likely to have sweetener in?

    "Have you ever wagged your tail so hard you fell over"?-Brod Higgins.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,901 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Bredabe wrote: »
    So if it says its sugar-free, its likely to have sweetener in?
    If it's a sweet food (jam, sauce, biscuits,etc) yes it's probably replaced with sweetener.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,238 ✭✭✭Bredabe


    Mellor wrote: »
    If it's a sweet food (jam, sauce, biscuits,etc) yes it's probably replaced with sweetener.

    Tks, I was curious if they had found some kind of alternative to sweetener in this sector.

    "Have you ever wagged your tail so hard you fell over"?-Brod Higgins.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,901 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Bredabe wrote: »
    [
    Tks, I was curious if they had found some kind of alternative to sweetener in this sector.
    What do you mean by alternative to sweetener?

    That are dozens of alternative sweeteners out there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Bredabe wrote: »
    Tks, I was curious if they had found some kind of alternative to sweetener in this sector.

    A sweetener makes it taste sweet when sugar is reduced. I'm not sure what alternative to a sweetener you had in mind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    i looked up a random no added sugar jam, here they use Sorbitol which is a sugar alcohol which has some downsides. Erythritol and Stevia appear to be better sweeteners.


    Tesco No Added Sugar Strawberry Jam 340G

    https://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=291227615
    Ingredients
    Sweetener (Sorbitol), Strawberries, Gelling Agent (Pectin), Citric Acid, Acidity Regulator (Sodium Citrate).

    Prepared with 45g of fruit per 100g.


    https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/diabetes/expert-answers/artificial-sweeteners/faq-20058038
    Also, be cautious with sugar alcohols — including mannitol, sorbitol and xylitol. Sugar alcohols can increase your blood sugar level. And for some people, sugar alcohols may cause diarrhea.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Is the sugar in the jam really the only issue or are they having copious amounts of toast/bread


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,238 ✭✭✭Bredabe


    A sweetener makes it taste sweet when sugar is reduced. I'm not sure what alternative to a sweetener you had in mind.

    I didn't have an alternative really, just one who is very against artificial sweeteners and would kick up if he thought it was in anything he was expected to eat and yes, I do see the contradiction.

    "Have you ever wagged your tail so hard you fell over"?-Brod Higgins.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,238 ✭✭✭Bredabe


    Is the sugar in the jam really the only issue or are they having copious amounts of toast/bread

    Just trying to bring down their level of addiction before it hits crisis levels, so we are starting with the foods we can control at home. Swopping jam for LS/Diabetic is an easy swop.

    "Have you ever wagged your tail so hard you fell over"?-Brod Higgins.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    You can get 100% fruit jams like St Dalfour. They are sweetened with grape and/or fig juice instead of sugar or more common alternatives. Personally I find them a bit too sweet to just put on toast but they are nice with plain yogurt or as a sweetener for baking/desserts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Bredabe wrote: »
    Just trying to bring down their level of addiction before it hits crisis levels, so we are starting with the foods we can control at home. Swopping jam for LS/Diabetic is an easy swop.

    So is it a toast on their jam kinda deal?

    It's just that jam is usually spread on something so every time they have jam, it's on something which may be as problematic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 483 ✭✭jace_da_face


    Sugar is not the cause of type 2 diabetes. It is a myth. A high fat diet is the cause but this message is not getting out. Because diabetic patients have high blood sugar then it is assumed that sugar in the diet must be the cause. But the cause is insulin resistance which prevents sugar being delivered to the cells that need it. And the reason for the resistance - intramyocellular globules caused by a high fat diet.

    https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/11/17/fat-is-the-cause-of-type-2-diabetes/
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110411121539.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Sugar is not the cause of type 2 diabetes. It is a myth. A high fat diet is the cause but this message is not getting out. Because diabetic patients have high blood sugar then it is assumed that sugar in the diet must be the cause. But the cause is insulin resistance which prevents sugar being delivered to the cells that need it. And the reason for the resistance - intramyocellular globules caused by a high fat diet.

    https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/11/17/fat-is-the-cause-of-type-2-diabetes/
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/04/110411121539.htm

    im just going to call bullsh1t to that, while i would say that the worst combination is a high sugar and high fat diet , the major trend in the west was an increase in sugar and an increase in frequency of eating hence the explosion of type 2 and obesity in general.
    there was a reason for the "french paradox" based on the fact that they ate a higher fat diet that wasnt a paradox, it was more that the low fat and higher sugar diet was wrong.
    i bet you are a vegan :D

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭RiderOnTheStorm


    silverharp wrote:
    ... Erythritol and Stevia appear to be better sweeteners.

    +1 on Stevia. Its prob the best sweetener out there. Stay away from anything that ends in "ose", such as fructose, glucose, etc

    And familiarise yourself with how to read the ingredients on the back of the packets. You only have to do it a few times until you find the product that suits you.

    Some sweeteners are so well engineered that the body thinks its sugar and ups the production of insulin , and there is no sugar for the insulin to process.

    In the long run, the family have to get their sugars under control. We all like sugar, but with diabetes its a choice between sugar and your eyesight down the road. It does happen. There are NO disadvantages to cutting down on sugar. Why take a tiny chance when you dont have to?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭RiderOnTheStorm


    PS good luck. It is hard to change habits. You have taken the first step. Be strong. Its worth it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 483 ✭✭jace_da_face


    silverharp wrote: »
    i bet you are a vegan :D

    Really? Wow! Where do I begin. What I eat or you eat is irrelevant. Either the argument is true or it is not and what I put into my mouth does not make it any more or less true. If I claimed that smoking is a risk factor for lung cancer, would the fact that I was a non smoker make that any more or less true?

    But I suspect you are attempting to suggest that I harbour some hidden agenda and that my argument is therefore not based on any scientific basis. Ad hominem fallacy will not win your argument.
    silverharp wrote: »
    there was a reason for the "french paradox" based on the fact that they ate a higher fat diet that wasnt a paradox, it was more that the low fat and higher sugar diet was wrong.
    i bet you are a vegan :D

    Your attempt to dazzle me with science is misguided. The “French Paradox” refers to the apparent low incidence of Coronary Heart Disease amongst the French population whilst consuming a diet high in saturated fat. It does not reference diabetes.

    BTW, this “apparent” paradox is controversial. It has been claimed that the statistical data that show this paradox is flawed, that CHD is under reported etc. Law and Wald. Even if it is taken as real, there is very little support that there is a causal link between high saturated fat intake and low incidence of CHD. There are many attempts to explain this paradox through other mitigating factors, such as possible protective effects of consumption of wine, fruit and vegetables, physical activity and other cultural traits.

    But if you believe the French Pardox to be real, just realise that this quite likely makes no odds to you as you do not live in France. And no such paradox has be shown to exist in Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Really? Wow! Where do I begin. What I eat or you eat is irrelevant. Either the argument is true or it is not and what I put into my mouth does not make it any more or less true. If I claimed that smoking is a risk factor for lung cancer, would the fact that I was a non smoker make that any more or less true?

    But I suspect you are attempting to suggest that I harbour some hidden agenda and that my argument is therefore not based on any scientific basis. Ad hominem fallacy will not win your argument.



    Your attempt to dazzle me with science is misguided. The “French Paradox” refers to the apparent low incidence of Coronary Heart Disease amongst the French population whilst consuming a diet high in saturated fat. It does not reference diabetes.

    BTW, this “apparent” paradox is controversial. It has been claimed that the statistical data that show this paradox is flawed, that CHD is under reported etc. Law and Wald. Even if it is taken as real, there is very little support that there is a causal link between high saturated fat intake and low incidence of CHD. There are many attempts to explain this paradox through other mitigating factors, such as possible protective effects of consumption of wine, fruit and vegetables, physical activity and other cultural traits.

    But if you believe the French Pardox to be real, just realise that this quite likely makes no odds to you as you do not live in France. And no such paradox has be shown to exist in Ireland.

    its clear that the main change in the last 50 years or so is a steady increase in processed sugar in everything. Also looking at it from an insulin perspective , its sugar that spikes insulin the most for most people, you could eat a stick a butter and your insulin would barely budge. If you look at the US for instance their metabolic damage is clearly due to a massive increase in foods and drinks containing sugar. If someone ate a low sugar diet , they wouldn’t get insulin resistance, that’s how most hormones work, if they are turned on all the time your body becomes resistant to them.
    I would say a high carb whole foods diet can work too, but very few people are raised that way so most people looking at this in their 30’s or 40’s have swilled back a swimming pool’s worth of coke and the rest.

    So em, are you vegan? :D

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,294 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    As a diabetic of some years standing ;)
    Sugar contributes to Type 2 diabetes but is not a primary cause.
    High sugar diets in conjunction with much more sedentary lifestyle is a major factor.
    But type 2 diabetes is not "just" high blood sugar due to dietary choices.
    It is an autoimmune condition whereby the body develops a heightened tolerance to insulin and as such more and more insulin is required to process a "normal" amount of sugar.

    The stuff labelled as "diabetic" usually is quite high in fat.
    Same goes for anything with high natural or fruit sugars, fructose,glucose, and corn syrup.
    All sugar is sugar, regardless of its "naturalness" the body responds to sugar of any kind by increasing insulin output, so if keeping blood sugar low is a goal watch total sugars/Carbs.

    If diabetes or pre-diabetes is a worry, more exercise and a balanced diet is the best course.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 483 ✭✭jace_da_face


    silverharp wrote: »
    its clear that the main change in the last 50 years or so is a steady increase in processed sugar in everything. Also looking at it from an insulin perspective , its sugar that spikes insulin the most for most people, you could eat a stick a butter and your insulin would barely budge.

    A spike in insulin in response to eating sugar is normal. That is the mechanism by which sugar is allowed pass into our muscle cells to provide the fuel we need to function. The problem is when insulin resistance exists. And that stick of butter will contribute to insulin resistance.

    Look, I’m not claiming that refined carbs and processed sugar is health food. And you’re right it has increased. But so too has the amount of saturated fat. Rarely do we eat just simple sugar. It is nearly always combined in a fatty treat such as a muffin or chocolate or sausage roll. Or it is locked up in fiber as with a piece of fruit which does not present a problem. Complex carbs are the way to go.

    banie01 wrote: »
    The stuff labelled as "diabetic" usually is quite high in fat.
    .

    Well I’m sorry to hear that Banie. What is the mechanism by which the metabolism fails to deliver fuel to our cells? Is it just genes and bad luck? If there is growing evidence that points to role of saturated fat in type 2 diabetes, should we not question this?

    Let me ask you this. What is the general prognosis for diabetes treatment? As in, is it seen as a condition that needs to be managed? Over a lifetime? Or is it seen as a condition to be cured or reversed?

    I think we should look at all research available with open minds. Is high blood sugar the cause or a symptom of something else.

    https://nutritionstudies.org/diabesity-treating-symptoms-rather-causes/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    banie01 wrote: »
    As a diabetic of some years standing ;)
    Sugar contributes to Type 2 diabetes but is not a primary cause.
    High sugar diets in conjunction with much more sedentary lifestyle is a major factor.
    But type 2 diabetes is not "just" high blood sugar due to dietary choices.
    It is an autoimmune condition whereby the body develops a heightened tolerance to insulin and as such more and more insulin is required to process a "normal" amount of sugar.

    The stuff labelled as "diabetic" usually is quite high in fat.
    Same goes for anything with high natural or fruit sugars, fructose,glucose, and corn syrup.
    All sugar is sugar, regardless of its "naturalness" the body responds to sugar of any kind by increasing insulin output, so if keeping blood sugar low is a goal watch total sugars/Carbs.

    If diabetes or pre-diabetes is a worry, more exercise and a balanced diet is the best course.


    I’d imagine there are genetic factors at play but in as much people can take control of all this diet or how you eat plays an important role. For instance people who have had bariatric surgery tend to see their type 2 symptoms go away quickly even though it might take them a year or more to lose the weight. There is a Canadian doctor (Jason Fung) who treats type 2 patients with fasting protocols and he seems to be able to reverse symptoms in his patients. He would tend to advise a low carb diet along side this but I’d assume its mostly about losing the foods that spike insulin

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭bee06


    Google chia seed jam recipes as an alternative.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    A spike in insulin in response to eating sugar is normal. That is the mechanism by which sugar is allowed pass into our muscle cells to provide the fuel we need to function. The problem is when insulin resistance exists. And that stick of butter will contribute to insulin resistance.

    Look, I’m not claiming that refined carbs and processed sugar is health food. And you’re right it has increased. But so too has the amount of saturated fat. Rarely do we eat just simple sugar. It is nearly always combined in a fatty treat such as a muffin or chocolate or sausage roll. Or it is locked up in fiber as with a piece of fruit which does not present a problem. Complex carbs are the way to go.

    I think its clear that the worst combination is high fat high sugar but the diet advice from the 70’s clearly isn’t working which was based on “low fat” because it meant people replaced fat with more sugary foods. More people know now that if something in the supermarket says “low fat” they have upped the sugar content.
    I was listening to a discussion the other day and the contrast was some society where they are very healthy on a very high carb diet (not processed) but they do eat seafood which is great and all but the vast majority of westerners don’t want to eat like that. The easier alternative is to move the diet away from sugar and high GI carbs.
    Another angle is what way you were raised and lived your life prior to making a diet change, someone in their 30’s or 40’s with accumulated metabolic damage based on a bad carb diet might find more success with a low carb diet as they have missed the boat in terms of just eating and drinking less crap, whereas societies like japan or china did just fine on a rice based diet because that was the way they were raised, they still ate meat and fish though but also didn’t eat 6 meals a day either like a lot of Americans.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    bee06 wrote: »
    Google chia seed jam recipes as an alternative.

    I had a quick look on youtube yesterday and there are a lot of recipes to make your own jam based on fresh or frozen fruit and some had chia seed alright others had some kind of gum added to thicken it up. I wouldn't mind having jam handy to add to yogurt , ill give it a go

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭bee06


    silverharp wrote: »
    I had a quick look on youtube yesterday and there are a lot of recipes to make your own jam based on fresh or frozen fruit and some had chia seed alright others had some kind of gum added to thicken it up. I wouldn't mind having jam handy to add to yogurt , ill give it a go

    They’re supposed to be very good to thicken sauces as well instead of flour etc. They are high in omega 3, protein and minerals.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    bee06 wrote: »
    They’re supposed to be very good to thicken sauces as well instead of flour etc. They are high in omega 3, protein and minerals.

    good to know, in some situations they are just an expensive form of flax seed but the texture of the chia would suit jams etc better

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭zbluebirdz


    Beware of eating "too much" of jam/marmalade that have sweeteners added to them. Some of them can make you sit on the toilet for a while ...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,294 ✭✭✭✭banie01






    Well I’m sorry to hear that Banie. What is the mechanism by which the metabolism fails to deliver fuel to our cells? Is it just genes and bad luck? If there is growing evidence that points to role of saturated fat in type 2 diabetes, should we not question this?

    Let me ask you this. What is the general prognosis for diabetes treatment? As in, is it seen as a condition that needs to be managed? Over a lifetime? Or is it seen as a condition to be cured or reversed?

    I think we should look at all research available with open minds. Is high blood sugar the cause or a symptom of something else.

    https://nutritionstudies.org/diabesity-treating-symptoms-rather-causes/


    I was diagnosed at quite an "odd" age for T2, I was 26 but relatively fit playing sports and while my BMI at the time of diagnosis was @27 that was at 85% muscle mass so wasn't really a factor.
    Usually type 2 is associated with middle age, or poor lifestyle at the time I was diagnosed I had neither of those issues ;)
    It would seem now that I have what is becoming known as type 1.5 or LADA still waiting on it to be nailed down fully.

    I am in very good control of my diabetes but unfortunately as time progresses control slips, and action such as more medication is needed.
    I'm now in the "insulin-dependent" bracket, more and still very well controlled.
    Over the past 12yrs I have probably only been in a "diabetic" range on my hbA1c for @5/6 months.
    That seems great, but unfortunately even staying below that range on the high side of low still leads to issues.
    Particularly with the smaller blood vessels. Loss of sensitivity in the fingers and toes, issues with the kidneys and scariest from my own point of view, blindness.
    A quick breakdown of the complications experienced are
    Complication/ Prevalence
    Acute Myocardial Infection (Heart Attack) – 0.46%
    Stroke – 0.53%
    Lower Limb Amputation – 0.28%
    Peripheral Neuropathy (pain in extremities) – 21.5%
    Retinopathy (vision compilations) – 28.5%
    Chronic Kidney Disease/ Kidney Failure – 39.8%
    Vision-threatening retinopathy (blindness) – 4.4%

    The current reality is that if you aren't able to reverse your Diabetes(And much of the success of reversal via Newcastle diet and similar isn't always a given, a lot of the furore around the success of fasting in reversal on closer reading of the studies is often other metabolic disorders masking as diabetes/pre-diabetes even including plain old poor impulse control and grazing)
    That slow decline and deterioration of your vascular and nervous system is inevitable.
    It can be delayed by good control of Blood glucose, blood pressure and keeping active but it is very much a delaying game rather than prevention or cure at current treatment regimes.
    There are plenty of studies for alternate drugs and gene therapies that show promise however and hopefully they will hit the mainstream before the impending diabetes "epidemic" hits the health services in the west.

    Of particular interest for anyone researching Diabetes should be the incidence of T2 or "Adult onset" should be the rates of prevalence in India and China and the Diet's in those areas.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44 orla.mccormack


    I think it's the carbs that you should be looking at. Reduced sugar does not mean carb free.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 220 ✭✭Black Noel


    I use sweetners rather than sugar but they can also be problematic I'm told. What's the opinion on whether sweetners are better, much better, just as bad etc as/than sugar?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,551 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    My opinion is that if you eat sugar products often, and your looking to completely replace sugar with fake sugar, but eat 'sweet' just as often as you always did, that's not a good idea.

    Better to give up sugar completely, rid yourself of your addiction for it, and whenever you have a rare craving some something sweet, use fake sugar, so you don't to back to your constant craving for it.

    I find fake sugar works really well in cream and yogurt. But anything savoury doesn't really work, in that it doesn't taste the same as real sugar.



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