Cycle-to-Work Scheme [Split Thread]

unkel

In your case it is cheaper than cycling as you have negative depreciation :cool:

And all those overpriced cycle to work bikes are rotting away in peoples sheds - what a joke that scheme is...

Mad Benny

unkel wrote: »

And all those overpriced cycle to work bikes are rotting away in peoples sheds - what a joke that scheme is...

The cycle to work bikes are no different that any other bikes. The number of people cycling in Dublin during rush hour increased by 20% alone between 2015 and 2017.

Cycling is a sustainable form of transport and has enormous health benefits.

Encouraging workers to buy bicycles and commute on them rather than using cars, buses, trams, trains etc is a huge benefit to the city.

I say this as a car driver, public transport user and cyclist.

What part of the scheme do you find funny?

unkel

I agree about the benefits of cycling Mad_Benny. An increase of just 20% coming from an almost zero base is meaningless though. If only 20% of all commuters would cycle!

What is funny is that people spent €1000 on an overpriced bike (that now rots in the shed), half of which had to be payed by the tax payer

creedp

unkel wrote: »

I agree about the benefits of cycling Mad_Benny. An increase of just 20% coming from an almost zero base is meaningless though. If only 20% of all commuters would cycle!

What is funny is that people spent €1000 on an overpriced bike (that now rots in the shed), half of which had to be payed by the tax payer

Know a few people who managed to buy 2 bikes under the Scheme so the taxpayer also paid half of the cost of the applicants son / daughters bike which is also lying beside the applicants bike in the shed

Soarer

creedp wrote: »

Know a few people who managed to buy 2 bikes under the Scheme so the taxpayer also paid half of the cost of the applicants son / daughters bike which is also lying beside the applicants bike in the shed

I know people that bought buggies and cots on the scheme, all of which are up the attic now.

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

I agree about the benefits of cycling Mad_Benny. An increase of just 20% coming from an almost zero base is meaningless though. If only 20% of all commuters would cycle!

What is funny is that people spent €1000 on an overpriced bike (that now rots in the shed), half of which had to be payed by the tax payer

I cycle a few days a week to work now.....would I have done that without the scheme? no idea....but it was a great help to get a decent bike and get up and running.....


Yes people and shops abuse the cycle to work scheme but sure it's Ireland and that goes on in every scheme available. A shop I know was using it to sell lawnmowers :P:P:P



the bigger joke is the SEAI scheme's, you try and use the scheme to renovate a house and all that money is used is extra margin for the contractor. It is a pure scam. Always has been.


The car charger scheme is going similar. So you could get one installed for 600 before scheme, now its getting close to 1200.....go figure that.....

Shefwedfan

creedp wrote: »

Know a few people who managed to buy 2 bikes under the Scheme so the taxpayer also paid half of the cost of the applicants son / daughters bike which is also lying beside the applicants bike in the shed

Yes loads of people do that......


Don't see the problem? the point is to get people onto bicycles....if you get your kids onto bikes by using the scheme then it working in my eyes......


Better than buying a playstation and them sitting in front of a tv

ted1

unkel wrote: »

I agree about the benefits of cycling Mad_Benny. An increase of just 20% coming from an almost zero base is meaningless though. If only 20% of all commuters would cycle!

What is funny is that people spent €1000 on an overpriced bike (that now rots in the shed), half of which had to be payed by the tax payer

They spent 480 Euro , cash. The tax payer didn’t pay anything. It’s once every 5 years so effectively it’s up to 104 tax free a year.

The annual bus pass saves about 1200 Euro a year or 6,000 v 520 every 5 years.
On top of that 6k, public transport journeys are subsidised

What about the Incentives for EV?

unkel

ted1 wrote: »

They spent 480 Euro , cash. The tax payer didn’t pay anything.

Then who do you think gave the bike shop the 1000 Euro, the fairies?

unkel

ted1 wrote: »

What about the Incentives for EV?

What about them? They are extremely generous in Ireland. Without them I wouldn't have bought my Ioniq. At least they are 100% used for what they were meant for. Buy and use an EV. The VAT I payed on the car gave half the subsidy back instantly by the way. And no, I would not have bought another new car and paid VRT / VAT anyway.

Fann Linn

Soarer wrote: »

I know people that bought buggies and cots on the scheme, all of which are up the attic now.

Or a washing machine. Not in the attic or rusting away either.

Shefwedfan

Fann Linn wrote: »

Soarer wrote: »

I know people that bought buggies and cots on the scheme, all of which are up the attic now.

Or a washing machine. Not in the attic or rusting away either.

Are we trying to win the contest by saying more and more outrageous items?

I very much doubt an electrical store for white good also is signed up to bike 2 work

Fann Linn

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are we trying to win the contest by saying more and more outrageous items?

I very much doubt an electrical store for white good also is signed up to bike 2 work

There's actually one in Roscommon.

ted1

unkel wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

They spent 480 Euro , cash. The tax payer didn’t pay anything.

Then who do you think gave the bike shop the 1000 Euro, the fairies?

The employees company writes the cheque. They deduct it from the employees wages spread over a year, there’s 40 Euro cash down each month.
No other tax payer is involved

unkel

ted1 wrote: »

The employees company writes the cheque. They deduct it from the employees wages spread over a year, there’s 40 Euro cash down each month.
No other tax payer is involved

Ah, I guess we misunderstood each other. The employee gets the bike and he pays €480. The bike shop owner gets €1000

The difference is paid by you and me, tax payers. That's what I meant by "the tax payer", as a general reference to who is funding the scheme.

ted1

unkel wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

The employees company writes the cheque. They deduct it from the employees wages spread over a year, there’s 40 Euro cash down each month.
No other tax payer is involved

Ah, I guess we misunderstood each other. The employee gets the bike and he pays €480. The bike shop owner gets €1000

The difference is paid by you and me, tax payers. That's what I meant by "the tax payer", as a general reference to who is funding the scheme.

The difference is solely paid by the person buying the bike. It’s a tax saving method unlike an EV grant which people get regardless of paying tax.
So you are incorrect in saying you and me are paying for it

unkel

ted1 wrote: »

The difference is solely paid by the person buying the bike. It’s a tax saving method unlike an EV grant which people get regardless of paying tax.
So you are incorrect in saying you and me are paying for it

Seriously? You need to brush up on your economics

Shefwedfan

Fann Linn wrote: »

There's actually one in Roscommon.

Whats a "Roscommon"? is it a place?



Never heard of it, give me a landmark in it and I will place it then :P

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

Ah, I guess we misunderstood each other. The employee gets the bike and he pays €480. The bike shop owner gets €1000

The difference is paid by you and me, tax payers. That's what I meant by "the tax payer", as a general reference to who is funding the scheme.

Not really 100% correct.



It is worth noting you dont have to use the full €1,000. Let's say you do


I don't know the exact figure but you pay circa €480 out of your own pocket. The other amount is then added to the tax free allowance.

So if they have a 40k tax free allowance after the scheme they have a tax free allowance of 40,520....

So no the tax paying is not paying, the person is earning the money themselves and just not paying tax on it

ted1

unkel wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

The difference is solely paid by the person buying the bike. It’s a tax saving method unlike an EV grant which people get regardless of paying tax.
So you are incorrect in saying you and me are paying for it

Seriously? You need to brush up on your economics

Go on explain.
After all in most cases it’s a purchase that wouldn’t have normally happened. so the tax money would never have been realised. So there is no lost taxes.

It’s Also cresting jobs in the bike shop. So more taxes are coming in.

Shefwedfan

ted1 wrote: »

Go on explain.
After all in most cases it’s a purchase that wouldn’t have normally happened. so the tax money would never have been realised. So there is no lost taxes.

It’s Also cresting jobs in the bike shop. So more taxes are coming in.

Plus the bike I get needs a service each year, the shop kindly offered first service free of charge....but again it is keeping a person employed which is a hell of a lot better for economy than paying someone the dole

ted1

Forgot to add the tax man collects 23% of the 1000.

So is actually up 230 Euro as chances are the person wouldn’t have bought the bike without the scheme.

Gumbo

I think it’s a great scheme.
I bought a cBoardman hybrid about 7 years ago on it. Don’t use it every day anymore but it’s there for when I do need it.

Stupid me though, bought while in the lower tax bracket due to the way PS wages are paid and pension contributions bringing taxable income down.

unkel

ted1 wrote: »

Go on explain.

If you avail of a new tax credit, it means that all the other tax payers will have to make up for the drop in total tax take, so we can still pay our nurses etc.

You're right in borrowing my argument from last night that the VAT immediately relieves some of the pain

Mad Benny

unkel wrote: »

I agree about the benefits of cycling Mad_Benny. An increase of just 20% coming from an almost zero base is meaningless though.

Zero base? The count was 9,000 cyclists at rush hour in 2015. In 2017 that figure increased to 12,400. More than the number of passengers on the Luas.

REF: http://irishcycle.com/2018/05/22/rush-hour-car-use-continues-to-decline-in-central-dublin-cycling-walking-bus-use-up/

ted1

unkel wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Go on explain.

If you avail of a new tax credit, it means that all the other tax payers will have to make up for the drop in total tax take, so we can still pay our nurses etc.

You're right in borrowing my argument from last night that the VAT immediately relieves some of the pain

I will say this slowly. In most cases..., there is no..drop...as the person buying probably wouldn’t have spent the money.

Chances are also that the saving they made is spent on cycling tyres, clothes , spare parts etc. So the money is spent in the economy.


I think it’s you who needs the lesson

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

If you avail of a new tax credit, it means that all the other tax payers will have to make up for the drop in total tax take, so we can still pay our nurses etc.

You're right in borrowing my argument from last night that the VAT immediately relieves some of the pain

You have to take into consideration a lot of elements. How many people would buy bikes outside of the scheme?



So if it wasn't their then less shops/less people working/more people on dole...


The actually cost of the scheme is minimal, then you consider a shop which is paying for rent/electricity/water taxes etc....

Then it will have a minimum of 2 people working, most will have more as they specialize in different types.....


Plus, I know it is small, but a few people might get the taste and move up to better more expensive bikes so bringing in more taxes etc


Not trying to argue, I just think it is a good scheme and worth keeping in place

unkel

ted1 wrote: »

I will say this slowly. In most cases..., there is no..drop...

The drop is that the shop owner gets €1000 and the buyer pays €480

Who do you think pays the €520?

Maybe you should read my posts again and think about it, slowly.

ted1

unkel wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

I will say this slowly. In most cases..., there is no..drop...

The drop is that the shop owner gets €1000 and the buyer pays €480

Who do you think pays the €520?

Maybe you should read my posts again and think about it, slowly.

The 520 comes from the person buying the bike, he gets an 84 Euro tax Credit every year to help reduce costs to the health service, road infrastructure, carbon fines, public transport subsidies, traffic congestion, improve air quality , energy independence, etc

He wouldn’t buy the bike otherwise. The 520 would not have gone to the tax man. It may well have gone to a foreign oil company , foreign pharmaceutical company producing diabetic drugs, cardio vascular drugs, etc.

The tax man wins.

It’s 80 Euro less than a home charger grant , which is paid for by the tax payers, for a mode of transport that’s many times better for the environment than an EV