Poor Anglo Irish

shakeitoff

Has much history been done on those of English descent who settled in Ireland but weren't part of the upper/ruling class. I have two very English names in my family tree and have always been fascinated by it. It seems the story of the anglo emigrant has been lost somewhat, maybe it's part of the shame being the most prominent coloniser but everywhere English went, there isn't much in the way of a shared kinship amongst the diaspora which I've always found odd.

tabbey

Most English people who settled in Ireland were not wealthy, although probably better off than the average Irish peasant. When English soldiers and adventurers were granted land after the 1641rebellion, English civil war etc, the law required them to have a certain of English/Scottish men accompany them for security, based on the size of the land grant. In practice, fewer than the rquired number were brought by the bigger owners but some did. There were also soldiers of the other ranks, who were granted modest holdings.

Over the centuries many intermarried with the indigenous population. For this reason most Irish people have Anglo surnames in their ancestry.

Jellybaby1

We'd be one of those poor Anglo Irish families. I always considered that we were 'left behind' after so many of the wealthier Anglo Irish families left Ireland during/after 1922. We were mainly of the labouring classes just like our neighbours. Sometimes I think were considered the remnants of the landed gentry and it always makes me laugh. We were dirt poor just like everyone else.

riffmongous

shakeitoff wrote: »

Has much history been done on those of English descent who settled in Ireland but weren't part of the upper/ruling class. I have two very English names in my family tree and have always been fascinated by it. It seems the story of the anglo emigrant has been lost somewhat, maybe it's part of the shame being the most prominent coloniser but everywhere English went, there isn't much in the way of a shared kinship amongst the diaspora which I've always found odd.

Part of it is probably that they were not really a diaspora, it was never really as involuntary, or seen as involuntary compared to other groups, certainly not like the Jews or Irish or Circassians

shakeitoff

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

We'd be one of those poor Anglo Irish families. I always considered that we were 'left behind' after so many of the wealthier Anglo Irish families left Ireland during/after 1922. We were mainly of the labouring classes just like our neighbours. Sometimes I think were considered the remnants of the landed gentry and it always makes me laugh. We were dirt poor just like everyone else.

My family were originally from France where they worked in the stagecoach business, they made their way up to England and eventually Dublin around the time of the famine. I think they were wealthy enough at some stage and maybe still in the family but my line were from tenement housing in town.

Jellybaby1

Proud tenement dweller here too!! Though seeing some of the worst photos of tenements, ours at least had wallpaper on the walls and lino on the floor.

gbarra

Wondering if it is possible to track down an address for someone in England

feargale

I'm curious as to how much of the Dublin Protestant working class survives. An excellent book came out about 25 years ago (I can't remember the title) with a chapter on that very subject. I think there were about 40,000 in 1900. According to the book the biggest factor in their decline was the fact that most of them worked in non-essential industries which suffered in World War I, causing alot of them to emigrate to England

robp

feargale wrote: »

I'm curious as to how much of the Dublin Protestant working class survives. An excellent book came out about 25 years ago (I can't remember the title) with a chapter on that very subject. I think there were about 40,000 in 1900. According to the book the biggest factor in their decline was the fact that most of them worked in non-essential industries which suffered in World War I, causing alot of them to emigrate to England

I'd imagine it has changed a lot. Some of Dublin's schools with the least number of Irish are protestant.

LoughNeagh2017

Most of the "Ulster-Scots" are a good example, many have English surnames but probably have ancestry from the Scotland/England border region, I also think south Scotland may have been northern England in the past.

The Ulster Scots always have had thought they were better than the Irish but they were peasantry too.

feargale

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Most of the "Ulster-Scots" are a good example, many have English surnames but probably have ancestry from the Scotland/England border region, I also think south Scotland may have been northern England in the past.

The Ulster Scots always have had thought they were better than the Irish but they were peasantry too.

Weren't a sizeable proportion of Ulster's planters English? Isn't this reflected in the fact that Presbyterian numbers in Ulster today are not enormously greater than Church of Ireland?

Peregrinus

feargale wrote: »

Weren't a sizeable proportion of Ulster's planters English?

Yes. English planters were a minority overall, but a fairly sizeable minority.

feargale wrote: »

Isn't this reflected in the fact that Presbyterian numbers in Ulster today are not enormously greater than Church of Ireland?

That's only part of the story. Nonconforming protestants, although not as disadvantaged as Catholics, were nevertheless disadvantaged, particularly in the 18th century, and there would have been a modest but persistent tendency for this to lead to Presbyterians conforming for social or economic advantage, in mixed Presbyterian/Anglican couples choosing to raise their children as Anglican, a greater tendency for Presbyterians than Anglicans to emigrate, etc, etc., all of which contributed to a slow rise in the Anglican proportion of the population, relative to nonconformists.