Need advice from current LandLords

corkstarbar

Hello
I thought I’d post on here to see if anyone is in the same situation as me as I’m freaking out..I’ve a property in Cork city a 4 bed house that has been rented out for many years..to cut a long story short I want to sell the property and after my tenants left after a valid termination of notice from my Solicitor..One tenant refused to leave and is now overholding in my property..when I emailed to say I was getting an auctioneer to value the property he had the brave neck to contact them and was aggressive.
My Solicitor is not giving me great advice as she now seems disinterested and even told me today on the phone( unofficially) I should change the locks and get his things into storage when he goes on holidays to his home country next week...Any advice on the above..I’m thinking of getting a second legal option as this could end badly and I want to do things above board...Many thanks

housetypeb

Is/was he renting a room, a separate lease for tenants per room, or was it a joint lease between the tenants for the whole house?

DubCount

Get a second legal opinion !! The first opinion is just wrong.

You need to lodge a case with the RTB - immediately. You will get a determination order from them. That's likely to be subject to an appeal by the overholding tenant. Then you will need to get a court order to enforce the RTB determination order. Its a long process - probably over 12 months.

If you change the locks, you are guilty of an illegal eviction and you will end up with a big fine from the RTB.

The only other option - pay off the overholding tenant to leave quietly. I don't agree with that, but it's an option.

I'm assuming from your post that this is a tenant and not a licensee

mikemac2

You need to fire that solicitor, your gut instinct is right. The unofficial advice is terrible and they won’t put their name to it even though you are paying for advice.

corkstarbar

His valid termination order ends today..20th..it is a valid order..I’ve been to the RTB with issues with him in the past and this is a nightmare..he is away now for a month so as you can imagine how tempting changing the locks and getting his things into storage is..he is up in my 4 bed house paying €300 a month as I reduced the rent during the recession to help people out but I was out of the country and can’t up it now.
I’m Defo getting more advice as this is not on I feel trapped by my Solicitor and also my auctioneer as he is siding with her...It will all fall back on me...thanks

corkstarbar

By the way..he never had a lease he never signed a contract and I was kind enough not to take a deposit
Bigger fool me 😞

kaymin

corkstarbar wrote: »

By the way..he never had a lease he never signed a contract and I was kind enough not to take a deposit
Bigger fool me 😞

I would move into the house yourself and treat him as if he is renting a room. After a month tell him to leave. If he has not signed a contract then it's hard for him to prove that he is anything other than a licensee.

3DataModem

corkstarbar wrote: »

His valid termination order ends today..20th..it is a valid order..I’ve been to the RTB with issues with him in the past and this is a nightmare..he is away now for a month so as you can imagine how tempting changing the locks and getting his things into storage is..he is up in my 4 bed house paying €300 a month as I reduced the rent during the recession to help people out but I was out of the country and can’t up it now.
I’m Defo getting more advice as this is not on I feel trapped by my Solicitor and also my auctioneer as he is siding with her...It will all fall back on me...thanks

So he has a valid termination order AND has vacated property?

Sounds like he has moved out to me. Move in. Change locks if needed.

corkstarbar

3DataModem wrote: »

So he has a valid termination order AND has vacated property?

Sounds like he has moved out to me. Move in. Change locks if needed.

He has gone to his home country for a month but left his belongings in the property

punisher5112

Has this been put in writing that he has gone for a month?

If he has vacated which the order states you have to hold onto his belongings as to give them back.

I would suggest enter the house take video and photos of everything and create a list.

Place everything of his in storage or box it up and have it ready for safe return to him when he is back.

You have every right to enter your house as all tenants have left(3 others)

You are checking rooms that were left and condition of property.

I'm surprised he hasn't moved others in and sub letting.

corkstarbar

punisher5112 wrote: »

Has this been put in writing that he has gone for a month?

If he has vacated which the order states you have to hold onto his belongings as to give them back.

I would suggest enter the house take video and photos of everything and create a list.

Place everything of his in storage or box it up and have it ready for safe return to him when he is back.

You have every right to enter your house as all tenants have left(3 others)

You are checking rooms that were left and condition of property.

I'm surprised he hasn't moved others in and sub letting.

He had the dates documented that he was gone for a month a The last RTB Dispute that he would be away so I’ve them documented..I did wonder had he others in..I’ll decide after a second opinion from another Solicitor on Monday as financial this is crippling me now and the RTB are all for the tenants and decent landlords are always caught with these things..

Pawwed Rig

He has left the house and abandoned his property. Hold it for him and repeatedly try to contact him. Unfortunately you didn't know he was intending to return. Leaving for a month is hardly normal behaviour after all.
You thought he was bluffing about over holding. What was I meant to think your honour? I mean a reasonable person wouldn't ignore a valid legal notice would they???

corkstarbar

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

He has left the house and abandoned his property. Hold it for him and repeatedly try to contact him. Unfortunately you didn't know he was intending to return. Leaving for a month is hardly normal behaviour after all.
You thought he was bluffing about over holding. What was I meant to think your honour? I mean a reasonable person wouldn't ignore a valid legal notice would they???

Lol I do see you point indeed..I only contact him via email..he’s not a nice guy and is obsessed with my house and also works out of it..he only pays half the WiFi as he says that was all he paid when all 3 tenants were in the property so I cut the WiFi and he disputed it with the RTB..my Solicitor said it would be adjourned but it went ahead with out me knowing and nobody represented me and I got fined €500 Euro for disturbing his peaceful environment etc etc even tho he’s not paying for the full monthly cost €43.60...My Solicitor needs sacking to start with anyway

davo10

Did he inform you he would be away for a month?

If not, then plead ignorance, assume he abandoned his belongings as the termination notice is up today, make lots of phone calls to his number and very important, change the locks and store his stuff until he returns. You have an opportunity here, don't miss it.

GGTrek

OP were the 300 eur paid for just renting a single room of the four available? Was each tenant paying separately the rent? If the answer is yes to both questions, then it can be easily shown that he was not a joint tenant even if there is no lease in place. In such case even if he is currently a tenant he can very easily become a licensee by you entering the house, taking over all the bills in your name and start sleeping there for around a month. Just warm him that you are doing this while he is on holiday. Have independent witnesses that you are now living there willing to go to RTB to testify. When he comes back tell him in his face that you are there to stay, he is not a tenant anymore he is a licensee living there wirh your permission but he has to get out within a month or less if he gets aggressive (video him when he gets aggressive). Even better have someone else staying with you at the house that can be a witness his aggressive manners if he tries the RTB route. After a month change the locks and throw his stuff out and call the police if he tries to get back in. Always have someone you trust at the house. Since your overholding tenant likes the RTB so much this time he/she will get a taste of his/her own medicine. Your defense will be that after the date you moved in he has become a licensee and the RTB has no jurisdiction. Take witnesses and bills and bank statements proving rent was paid separately with you to prove it. Even better get a written and signed statement from old tenants that each one was renting rooms separately. Be merciless like your soon to be former tenant has been, if the adjudicator is a socialist one then appeal and if tribunal still confirms let them go to district court and present your case again: use the appeal system against the Tenant. Describe the tenant in the worst possible manner at each time: he/she has become your enemy. The house will be long sold before he manages to do anything.
Even if you get a penalty of 3-4k (it is the maximum they give to an overholding tenant who is after all willingly breaking the law) it will be way less than the money you will loose waiting 12 months to get the tenant out.

GGTrek

I only know good tenancy law solicitors in Dublin unfortunately.

corkstarbar

GGTrek wrote: »

I only know good tenancy law solicitors in Dublin unfortunately.

Thanks a lot for that info..can u PM me any good Solicitors in Dublin as I work out of Dublin but commute to Cork as it’s home...Many thanks

Seth Brundle

corkstarbar wrote: »

he only pays half the WiFi as he says that was all he paid when all 3 tenants were in the property so I cut the WiFi and he disputed it with the RTB..my Solicitor said it would be adjourned but it went ahead with out me knowing and nobody represented me and I got fined €500 Euro for disturbing his peaceful environment etc etc even tho he’s not paying for the full monthly cost €43.60...My Solicitor needs sacking to start with anyway

I don't follow this. Are you paying the remainder of the internet bill? Why?

corkstarbar

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I don't follow this. Are you paying the remainder of the internet bill? Why?

I am..who else is going to pay it..he’s horrendous and obsessed..I did a property inspection a month ago and it’s like he’s hibernating..I did make a few mistakes and of course he’s straight to the RTB..he thinks and using the excuse I’m selling my property as an excuse to evict him

Seth Brundle

corkstarbar wrote: »

I am..who else is going to pay it

If you're renting out a property why are you paying the utility bills also?

corkstarbar

Seth Brundle wrote: »

If you're renting out a property why are you paying the utility bills also?

Tenants pay me WiFi ...did...and I paid it by direct debit....lesson learnt

Seth Brundle

What other bills are you paying?

corkstarbar

Seth Brundle wrote: »

What other bills are you paying?

Just the bins but that’s stopped

the_syco

corkstarbar wrote: »

he is away now for a month

I'm confused. You gave him a valid termination notice, and he has now left?

Follow GGTrek's advice.

punisher5112

Move 3 new tenants in....


The kind you couldn't live with!!!!


Friends of course.

utmbuilder

Few options here

If he's renting a room RTB act does not apply however you may have screwed this get out of jail card by sending him eviction notices like he is the main lease holder.

I don't think he has a case of any kind call threshold it's free and in cork.

If the house is abandoned for 2 weeks that's another break clause.

I think you may be lucky in your case as it sounds like a rent a room not covered by part 4 tendancy.

Note if you do end up getting advice to move him out you may need to border up the house for a month to keep him out. Sherrifs are expensive if the cops won't help if he breaks back in.

dudara

It sounds like he’s covered his bases well by telling you and the RTB (I think I read that earlier) that he’ll be away for 4 weeks. That’s not vacation of possession, and if you re-possess the house in this time, I think you’d be in trouble.

I’d start RTB proceedings immediately, you may as well get that ball rolling. And you definitely need a new solicitor.

Brian?

Why don't you get an estate agent around, put up a for sale sign and start doing viewings while he's away? It might be enough to make him accept you're not attempting to evict him and raise the rent.

Fol20

Brian? wrote: »

Why don't you get an estate agent around, put up a for sale sign and start doing viewings while he's away? It might be enough to make him accept you're not attempting to evict him and raise the rent.

Do not do this as you would impede on his “peaceful enjoyment” of the place.

Fol20

Get a good solicitor and let them take it from here. It doesn’t matter where the solicitor is, if it’s in Dublin or cork or wherever. It will all be formal anyway.let them contact him going forward and you contact the solicitor. Keep on top of whomever you pick as a solicitor though as I have found them to all be a little slow at auctioning tasks.hopefully once he sees the solicitors name on top of whatever they send, it might make him move a bit quicker.If this guy knows how to play the game, you need to be extra careful.

Run a mile from your current solicitor, he is either a terrible solicitor or he is trying to get more business as you could be fined/sued for changing the locks.

housetypeb

Surely the solicitor is of limited use until the RTB makes a determination on the over holding.

corkstarbar

Thanks for the continued advice this means a lot..I’ve an appointment Monday with another Solicitor as like I was saying I’m not happy with the current.Plus the last Dispute regarding me getting the Wifi cut off as he was not paying the full amount ended with me being stuck with a €500 fine from the RTB..this is why..my Solicitor tried to get it adjourned with the RTB..the case went ahead without even my knowledge and she sent her apprentice instead of herself so nobody had a voice in that dispute hearing as the apprentice could say nothing..the only reason I found out that it went ahead is a letter from the RTB..totally misinformed by my Solicitor and badly advised..she is yet to take any responsibility..as if I was present the outcome would of been different

whippet

By the sound of it this tennant knows what they are doing and are probably hoping you will change the locks and boot him out .. straight to the RTB and a nice 5 figure settlement for him.

Get proper legal advise.

This is why I got out of the rental game ... all it take is one of the many bad tenants out there to cost you thousands ... being a private landlord is a mugs game unless you have 100s of properties and are treated as a business by the revenue

punisher5112

You can appeal that fine.

Why not move other tenants in.

corkstarbar

punisher5112 wrote: »

You can appeal that fine.

Why not move other tenants in.

Hi because the aim is to sell the property but getting him out first

punisher5112

corkstarbar wrote: »

Hi because the aim is to sell the property but getting him out first

Yes i understand that but use 3 buddies that are horrible to live with, loud, stay at home and use all the internet wink wink if ya get me.

cursai

12 months is a lot longer to wait than 1 month.

mdebets

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes i understand that but use 3 buddies that are horrible to live with, loud, stay at home and use all the internet wink wink if ya get me.

But that would make the original eviction notice (for sale of house) invalid and the OP may have to pay the already evicted tenants money for illegal eviction and make the current eviction notice to the last tenant invalid.

corkstarbar

mdebets wrote: »

But that would make the original eviction notice (for sale of house) invalid and the OP may have to pay the already evicted tenants money for illegal eviction and make the current eviction notice to the last tenant invalid.

I’m not going to do that anyway..I can’t even get into my property let along have another 3 I’m there

Dr_Kolossus

Op lots if things not right about this.

Who signed the original lease? Did anyone? If someone else signed then he sounds like licencee.

You paid the wi-fi fne, sounds again like rtb were treating him as a licsencee. Or it was just in your name and you were liable.

Get a good lawyer. Determine 1st if he is a tenant then take it from there

corkstarbar

Dr_Kolossus wrote: »

Op lots if things not right about this.

Who signed the original lease? Did anyone? If someone else signed then he sounds like licencee.

You paid the wi-fi fne, sounds again like rtb were treating him as a licsencee. Or it was just in your name and you were liable.

Get a good lawyer. Determine 1st if he is a tenant then take it from there

Hi..Nobody signed a lease..my name is on the WiFi...
Yeah I’m in the process of finding a good Solicitor

There are 3 Free rooms op you are fully entitled to move into one yourself or move in other people. He is only renting a room and had no exclusive use of the property and no rights at all to the other rooms so it’s just tough look on him.

Move in yourself while he is away and when he returns stay living there and let him cry to who ever he wants but you make the very valid point that he has no say over who rents the other rooms and he does not have exclusive use of common areas either so simply canny dictate who comes and goes from the house. The tenant will then become a licensed after say a month or so and just change the locks and kick him out then. Take no crap from him, cancel the WiFi again you should not be paying it and appeal the fine from the RTB they were conned by him.

tara73

punisher5112 wrote: »

Yes i understand that but use 3 buddies that are horrible to live with, loud, stay at home and use all the internet wink wink if ya get me.

I think this is a good solution. Don't you have a few buddies who can help you with this?
This guy is a ruthless bully and you can beat such bullies only with their own medicine.
You seem like a nice guy, too nice actually. Give yourself a kick in the a*** and stop being nice to people who don't deserve it.

punisher5112

If you move back or family it could be temporary such as you had to get your place fixed or you were getting work done and there was no water or electricity.

the_syco

corkstarbar wrote: »

I’m not going to do that anyway..I can’t even get into my property let along have another 3 I’m there

Tell your new solicitor that. AFAIK, you should be given the new key if the tenant changes the locks of your house.

corkstarbar

the_syco wrote: »

Tell your new solicitor that. AFAIK, you should be given the new key if the tenant changes the locks of your house.

If he changes the locks without my consent ( which wouldn’t surprise me ) I’ll have him for it..he leaves Monday for a Month so I’ll go up Tuesday to see what I’m faced with 😳..I guess I have been too soft but I was not well a few months back and I am trying my best to not stress me out...I spoke with my brother earlier he lives in London and he wants to fly over and drag him out but obviously we can’t do that 😕

the_syco

corkstarbar wrote: »

he leaves Monday for a Month so I’ll go up Tuesday

Do not touch his room. I'd be careful what to touch in the common area.

But the rooms that were lived in by the tenants that moved out; ensure they're stripped bare.

handlemaster

Boils my bubble tenants like this.

corkstarbar

the_syco wrote: »

Do not touch his room. I'd be careful what to touch in the common area.

But the rooms that were lived in by the tenants that moved out; ensure they're stripped bare.[/quote

I’m just going up to see what the state is..not comfortable my house left for a month

corkstarbar

handlemaster wrote: »

Boils my bubble tenants like this.

I hear yeah...the guy is deluded and not right as he’s obsessed and thinks the RTB are his best friends...prob not far off ..

handlemaster

corkstarbar wrote: »

handlemaster wrote: »

Boils my bubble tenants like this.

I hear yeah...the guy is deluded and not right as he’s obsessed and thinks the RTB are his best friends...prob not far off ..

RTB arr quick to dish the demands on the landlord when it comes to the tenant you would die waiting. Funny as the service is paid for by landlord's