Vaccinate dogs or not?

loup

I've just got a reminder from the vet for annual vaccinations. However I have read that the current thinking is now every three years. Undecided as to what to do! Anyone any advice? We have 2 cross breeds (rescue mutts) if that makes a difference. Thanks for any help!

JustAThought

loup wrote: »

I've just got a reminder from the vet for annual vaccinations. However I have read that the current thinking is now every three years. Undecided as to what to do! Anyone any advice? We have 2 cross breeds (rescue mutts) if that makes a difference. Thanks for any help!

Just do it.

Your pet insurance will.be invalid if you dont keep your shots up. Even if your dog cuts his paw they will.look at the charts and say no vacs no payout. They wint be telling you in advance.

If it lapses you wont be able to renew it with the same easy terms and could be faced with one of those awful scenarios if something goes wrong.

Yoy wont be able to kennel your dogs anywhere - even if you have a medical emergency or crisis because noone will.board them without vac proofs.

In the rare and unlikely case of something going wrong you will always wonder - was I responsible for this awful thing that killed.my beloved pet(s).

em_cat

loup wrote: »

I've just got a reminder from the vet for annual vaccinations. However I have read that the current thinking is now every three years. Undecided as to what to do! Anyone any advice? We have 2 cross breeds (rescue mutts) if that makes a difference. Thanks for any help!

Ring your vet to confirm which ones are due if your concerned as some vaccines/boosters are1yr, 3 yr ,5 yr. You could also find a vet that does titre testing (measures the amount of antibodies) if your concerned about over vaccination.

tk123

JustAThought wrote: »

Your pet insurance will.be invalid if you dont keep your shots up. Even if your dog cuts his paw they will.look at the charts and say no vacs no payout. They wint be telling you in advance.

Allianz are fine with titres. They just won't cover anything that could have been vaccinated against. I have had many(!) claims including one for over 2k and there's never been an issue.

OP I got the initial course and stoped after the 1 year booster - next time I'll titre at 1 year.... Both dogs have been tested and both showed strong immunity. If the vet uses Axiom labs they can take a blood sample and send it off for vaccicheck - there is no need to pay extra to go to a vet who stocks the test onsite.

boomerang

Leptospirosis and kennel cough vaccinations are yearly.

Dubl07

boomerang wrote: »

Leptospirosis and kennel cough vaccinations are yearly.

Kennel cough seems to come in a lot of variations and lepto protection may only last for six months while presenting some extreme risks.

My cover is with Allianz. I'm covered for all accidents etc and illnesses not related to vaccination. I stopped vaccinating after year two.

Knine

I stopped too. Mine were done for Kennel Cough and still got it so I don't bother with that either. Family/friends mind them if I am going anywhere and my oldest daughter is now able to look after them too. Vaccinations & neutering/spaying bring in plenty of money for vets so of course they are going to push it.

loup

Thanks! I might look at doing the tests to see how high their immunity is. Haven't bothered with kennel cough for years as we bring them on hols.

cocker5

I’m in between on this .. it’s not the cost aspect at all .. it’s the effect on my dog that I worry about TBH

All these chemicals .. every few months (worming / ticks etc) .. yearly vaccinations I dunno but I currently treat him holistically for a few issues and worry about pumping his little body with chemicals .. I won’t even give him loxicom .. so don’t think I’ll get him his yearly this year ...

Anyway he’s been vaccinated every year for 13 years now .. he’s still gotten kennel cough 3/4 times.. and as for lepto .. nothing is guaranteed and your dog can still get sick

Graces7

Dog here has never been vaccinated. She is never away from the house except now here on the empty lanes and meets no other dogs ever. She is 12 now.

The only dogs I see here at all are the working collies from the farm. And we keep our distance.

TopTec

Unfortunately with a pet passport you can't just stop giving them basic vacs. Mine are 13 and 14 and I have never given them kennel cough or lungworm or the newer groups of vaccines.


Rarely worm them and only flea treatment when I go to a certain house in the UK that is full of cats.



My vet often mentions I should get them but I suspect this is more based on commercial interests than the interests of the dogs.


One of mine has been on Loxicom for several months and I am not sure it is giving her any benefit.


TT

tk123

TopTec wrote: »

One of mine has been on Loxicom for several months and I am not sure it is giving her any benefit.

Ah thats a pity. You should go back to the vet and talk about trying something from one of the other groups of painkillers?
I found my old vets was loxicom/metacam or bust where my new vet specialises in pain relief and they do ortho surgeries there so more open to trying something else if it doesn't work - Bailey has been most of them I think at one stage or another but off everything now as we have the right combo of physio/laser/exercise etc. That said I wouldn't hesitate to give him painkillers if/when he needs it. He's been on Rimadyl, Previox, Metacam/Loxi, tramadol, Gabapentin, Onsior that I can remember

My friend's OH had a hip replacement last month and neighbour is waiting for hers - both have said it's absolute agony so knowing that if I ever have a dog who has hip issues I wouldn't scrimp on the painkillers or give up if one didn't suit.... Or any medicine that they need

muddypaws

TopTec wrote: »

Unfortunately with a pet passport you can't just stop giving them basic vacs. Mine are 13 and 14 and I have never given them kennel cough or lungworm or the newer groups of vaccines.

Why not? The pet passport only requires a valid rabies vaccination (and a worming tablet when returning from the continent) which is how ridiculous it is for travel to and from the UK especially.

mobby

Posted on this before.Got our lad last December, Breeder told me as far as she was concerned after his first vaccinations he was grand for life. totally against the Leptospirosis vac aswell. So brought him to the Vet in Jan/Feb after much talk and thinking about it went for the Boosters and Lepto 4 but said I would have him Titre tested before any more Vacs. no reactions to the Lep 4 thank god, but he wont be having it again after reading more into it. Got the Vet involved with http://vaccicheck.com/ who do titre tests €60 about 6 weeks ago, and he his fine no boosters needed which his what my breeder said. Vet is trying to push the Lepto 4 and neutering but am saying no. also from what i see the core vaccinations are 3 years.

Binka

Is that the same for Parvo? There's a lot of Parvo around these parts. Would that be ok for 3, 5, life? I'd be more worried about that than anything else.

muddypaws

Binka wrote: »

Is that the same for Parvo? There's a lot of Parvo around these parts. Would that be ok for 3, 5, life? I'd be more worried about that than anything else.

The manufacturer's protocol now is 3 years for core vaccines, which includes parvo. Talk to your vet about it, If they insist on annual boosters, ask to see the paperwork that comes with the vaccinations.

tk123

Binka wrote: »

Is that the same for Parvo? There's a lot of Parvo around these parts. Would that be ok for 3, 5, life? I'd be more worried about that than anything else.

If there’s lots of parvo then your dog is being exposed all the time and their natural immunity is fighting it off. They won’t suddenly get it 3 years and 1 day after the vaccination.

How do you know there’s lots of parvo out of interest? My two have been exposed to it according to their titre results.

Binka

A lot of it is anecdotal evidence really (a friend of a friend etc) and knowing a couple of people who have lost farm dogs through parvo. My vet reckons there's a lot of it about locally.
But I'm guessing from what you're saying that it's good for them to be exposed to it?

tk123

Binka wrote: »

A lot of it is anecdotal evidence really (a friend of a friend etc) and knowing a couple of people who have lost farm dogs through parvo. My vet reckons there's a lot of it about locally.
But I'm guessing from what you're saying that it's good for them to be exposed to it?

I've found vets will always say there's a lot of X locally... but I never hear about it on the park grapevine! My friend is major gossip so I know I'd hear from her lol
There's plenty of studies showing vaccines last 7 years if not for life.. So I'm happy with the titres.

Choc Chip

More anecdotal evidence, but I'm terrified of parvo. I know a good few pups in rescue who died after contracting it in the pound, and one pound I've spoken to now tends to over-vaccinate dogs when they go in, rather than risk parvo.

I wasn't overly worried about it (thought it was mainly pups/ older dogs/ immuno-supressed that were at real risk of fatality) until a neighbour got a collie from the pound. Lovely, big, bouncy chap (the dog that is ) about a year old - could stand on his hind legs and say hi to me through the window of a SUV. He died within a few days of me meeting him - he had contracted parvo in the pound and was dead within a week of coming out. Sounded an awful experience for all involved.

I know he was probably an outlier but it's really stuck with me and I'm far more careful about making sure anything that comes from the pound has vaccinations and my own dogs are up to date (I wouldn't be against titre testing, just haven't gone down that route yet).

tk123

Yeah but we're talking about healthy dogs who've already had their initial course of vaccinations - pound dogs aren't necessarily in the best conditions so I guess wouldn't have the immunity built up.

Choc Chip

The specific dog I'm talking about appeared to be in good condition (it was the vet who told me the story, not his owner), but as I said he was probably an outlier and they had no vaccination history before he arrived in the pound. At his age I'd have expected him to have built up a decent immune system which he obviously hadn't. The point I was making was that in my experience parvo is out there and its not just dangerous to pups.

I'd either titre test or vaccinate according to my vet's advice, I wouldn't leave it to chance (I'm not referring to you, but some people I know are very relaxed about vaccines) and I'm not as blasé about keeping them up to date as I might have been before.

DBB

I thought the practice of vaccinating dogs of unknown history coming into the pound/rescue was risky, no?
Certainly a few years ago it was common enough for dogs to be vaccinated as they came in the gates, but this practice was largely discontinued as dogs that were already infected were then being vaccinated on top of the early stages of the infection, which killed a number of dogs in the following days.

Choc Chip

DBB wrote: »

I thought the practice of vaccinating dogs of unknown history coming into the pound/rescue was risky, no?
Certainly a few years ago it was common enough for dogs to be vaccinated as they came in the gates, but this practice was largely discontinued as dogs that were already infected were then being vaccinated on top of the early stages of the infection, which killed a number of dogs in the following days.

Nope- it's definitely still happening in pounds. I know the specific rescue are worried about it. I picked up a pup from a pound that had been done before I got him out a few months ago and there's a bitch at my feet who was done before they realised she was pregnant. PM me if you want to know the pounds - they might take on your advice given your qualifications/experience. Neither are the pound in my county btw.

daithi7

I stopped ( re) vaccinating my dog at year 2, as I no longer had to leave him in kennels and I figured the whole annual vaccination thing was a bit of a scam for a house dog like mine

Reading this thread is reassuring me that I made the absolute right decisions for myself and my healthy 8 year old lab... Long may it continue!!

Shelli2

Very interesting thread.
I had always thought that vaccinating every year was a little OTT, but went with the 'better safe than sorry' mindset and got it done yearly with previous dogs.
When I think about my logest lived dog, my childhood pet, he was the ripe old age of 17 and probably had maybe 3 doses during his entire life.

We now have 3 rescues, 2 which we got last year, were given shots in the pound/rescue and would be due a yearly booster now.
And one who we were fostering but just last week decided to adopt so we're waiting on her paperwork to see exactly what she was given.

I like the idea of testing to see what boosters are actually needed rather than adminsitering massive doses of unrequired chemicals.

boomerang

daithi7 wrote: »

I figured the whole annual vaccination thing was a bit of a scam for a house dog like mine

We had eleven cases of parvo at our clinic recently. Both adult dogs and puppies. Only two survived.

muddypaws

daithi7 wrote: »

I stopped ( re) vaccinating my dog at year 2, as I no longer had to leave him in kennels and I figured the whole annual vaccination thing was a bit of a scam for a house dog like mine

Reading this thread is reassuring me that I made the absolute right decisions for myself and my healthy 8 year old lab... Long may it continue!!

I tried to post on this earlier but it wouldn't work.

What do you mean by house dog, does he never go for walks? Some diseases are airborne or can be carried on shoes or clothes.

Paddy Cow

loup wrote: »

I've just got a reminder from the vet for annual vaccinations. However I have read that the current thinking is now every three years. Undecided as to what to do! Anyone any advice? We have 2 cross breeds (rescue mutts) if that makes a difference. Thanks for any help!

I was getting boosters for my three recently. The vet said it's not the same vaccinations every year and they are on a three year cycle. That's why it's important to keep the vaccination card. Mine go to the same vet so there's a record there anyway.

Maybe that's what you were reading about? It's not that it should be all vaccinations once every three years but them being administered over a three year period.

tk123

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I was getting boosters for my three recently. The vet said it's not the same vaccinations every year and they are on a three year cycle. That's why it's important to keep the vaccination card. Mine go to the same vet so there's a record there anyway.

Maybe that's what you were reading about? It's not that it should be all vaccinations once every three years but them being administered over a three year period.

Lepto which lasts a few months is given every year and the rest every 3 years.. which have been proven to last up to 7 years... Which btw is obvious in my fit and healthy dog’s titres.


Always ask for context if the vets are throwing figures around eg the dog who had lepto x months ago at our old vets being used as an example as to why I should get my two vaccinated for it.. was vaccinated himself.
Also everyone’s situation is different depending on your dog’s health, where they’re walked etc etc.

Arbie

What are the actual concerns about regular vaccines? Is it the cost, the effectiveness, or the safety?

Is there a genuine suspicion that vets are colluding to profits from unnecessary/unsafe treatments at the expense of animals?

Mince Pie

I don't agree with yearly vaccinations, its always seemed rather excessive to me and the dogs tend to be under the weather afterwards. Both mine have passports but ideally I would prefer to give them a booster every few years rather than a yearly shot. I'm not one for railing against pharma etc and my last vet didn't seem to be too perturbed when I said I was behind with their shots. Impression I got was that he thought it was excessive as well but not really the done thing to advise as such.

honeybear

Every July I get my pooch vaccinated.

mobby

boomerang wrote: »

We had eleven cases of parvo at our clinic recently. Both adult dogs and puppies. Only two survived.

What were the Vaccination history of these dogs and pups? I don't think anyone is saying no to Vaccinations, its just not every year even the Pharma company's are now saying core boosters are only required every 3 years. My year old Cav was titred, was never mentioned ever to me by the vet even with my previous dog or had I heard of it before only the breeder told me about it. He wont need a booster if ever again for a least 3 years. Lepto 4 no way same with kennel cough.

boomerang

Mince Pie wrote: »

I don't agree with yearly vaccinations, its always seemed rather excessive to me

Leptospirosis and kennel cough must be vaccinated against yearly. The others are fine every three years.

cocker5

boomerang wrote: »

Leptospirosis and kennel cough must be vaccinated against yearly. The others are fine every three years.

Just on this... my guy had ben vaccinated for kennel cough for 12 years... yet he still got KC 3/4 times in his life time so basically useless and I now don't give him KC.. and if I eve think he has KC I treat him holistically


On the Lepto - same applies, it doesn't stop the virus 100%... many many dogs who develop lepto have already be vaccinated against it...


https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/leptospirosis-vaccine-side-effects/

https://dogshealthproblems.com/dog-reaction-to-the-lepto-vaccine/

https://www.doglistener.co.uk/annual-dog-vaccination-dangers

I dunno its a mind field

Arbie

cocker5 wrote: »

Just on this... my guy had ben vaccinated for kennel cough for 12 years... yet he still got KC 3/4 times in his life time so basically useless and I now don't give him KC.. and if I eve think he has KC I treat him holistically

On the Lepto - same applies, it doesn't stop the virus 100%... many many dogs who develop lepto have already be vaccinated against it...

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/leptospirosis-vaccine-side-effects/

https://dogshealthproblems.com/dog-reaction-to-the-lepto-vaccine/

https://www.doglistener.co.uk/annual-dog-vaccination-dangers

I dunno its a mind field

Vaccines are not 100% effective but they don't need to be. The point of regular mass vaccination is that if every dog gets them then the risk for all dogs is much lower.

Not vaccinating a dog it increases the risk for that dog and for others, including dogs who have been vaccinated but for whom it did not work.

Kennel cough is not just a cough - even healthy dogs can end up with bad pneumonia or septic shock. The side effects of vaccines are almost zero, so apart from the cost there is no excuse.

DBB

cocker5 wrote: »

On the Lepto - same applies, it doesn't stop the virus 100%... many many dogs who develop lepto have already be vaccinated against it...

Whatever about individual owners' take on vaccination, and I do feel there's a lot of misinformation floating about, I just want to clarify that leptospirosis is caused by a bacteria, not a virus
Sorry! I had a pedantic itch I needed to scratch there!
Bacterial vaccinations tend to be relatively short-lived, and tend not to be as effective as viral vaccinations. But, as the above poster says, vaccination helps reduce the incidence of infectious diseases at population level, whatever about individual level.

tk123

:pac: A dog in our park had I guess suspected lepto (t'was vaccinated) and the owner was going around saying the dog had crypto .... this was around the time bitcoin was in the news! . Lots of confusion and worry about this new disease lol. Now whether the dog actually had lepto or was sick from the vaccine I don't know - possibly he just decided that's what it was.

daithi7

muddypaws wrote: »

I tried to post on this earlier but it wouldn't work.

What do you mean by house dog, does he never go for walks? Some diseases are airborne or can be carried on shoes or clothes.

House dog: I mean he normally hangs out in our around the house, I think that's what most people mean when they term a dog such.

Yes, of course I walk him, and yes he occasionally meets other dogs..... but I think his chances of picking up a lethal contagious disease (that would be prevented by vaccines) are about similar to Sean Gallagher being elected president next month, it's of course remotely possible but simply not at probable.

Vaccines would be totally wasted on him imho.

muddypaws

daithi7 wrote: »

House dog: I mean he normally hangs out in our around the house, I think that's what most people mean when they term a dog such.

Yes, of course I walk him, and yes he occasionally meets other dogs..... but I think his chances of picking up a lethal contagious disease (that would be prevented by vaccines) are about similar to Sean Gallagher being elected president next month, it's of course remotely possible but simply not at probable.

Vaccines would be totally wasted on him imho.

Lets hope you're right. And thank dog for the other dog owners who do vaccinate and so give herd protection. I have no idea why you think your dog is immune, just because he lives in a house, most dogs do, it doesn't stop them getting ill or dying.

I have to admit that hearing people saying they don't vaccinate gives me shivers. I really worry about a vaccine not working on Khali. For example the kennel cough vaccine. I imagine if most people vaccinated their dogs and it worked for a huge amount of them then the chances of Khali catching anything would be pretty tiny. With her lung issue a big worry for us is pneumonia. I think herd protection is so important and if enough people don't vaccinate vulnerable dogs like mine might be in trouble. (I'm not including those who have been titre tested and have immunity).

I'm very tired and not sure I'm making sense.

mobby

daithi7 wrote: »

House dog: I mean he normally hangs out in our around the house, I think that's what most people mean when they term a dog such.

Yes, of course I walk him, and yes he occasionally meets other dogs..... but I think his chances of picking up a lethal contagious disease (that would be prevented by vaccines) are about similar to Sean Gallagher being elected president next month, it's of course remotely possible but simply not at probable.

Vaccines would be totally wasted on him imho.

Have you considered a titre test?

daithi7

mobby wrote: »

Have you considered a titre test?

I wasn't aware of such a test until I read this thread tbh, but it sounds like a great idea.

so yes, the next time I'm in with the vet I'll request one, as it sounds like a rational approach to the whole over medicating/vaccination issue.

em_cat

daithi7 wrote: »

I wasn't aware of such a test until I read this thread tbh, but it sounds like a great idea.

so yes, the next time I'm in with the vet I'll request one, as it sounds like a rational approach to the whole over medicating/vaccination issue.

TBH I don’t think you really understand what a vaccine is and what they do or understand risk/ benefit.

daithi7

em_cat wrote: »

TBH I don’t think you really understand what a vaccine is and what they do or understand risk/ benefit.

Tbh I think you're making completely facile deductions which are wholly incorrect, without knowing even a fraction of the facts.... FYI I understand perfectly well what a vaccine is, how it works down to immune system level and your so called risk/benefits attached to them.

I also understand agendas, such as those of thepharma/drug companies here, veterinary practices and the pet care industry hobby horses.

IMHO The fact that more gullible souls insist on vaccinating their dogs annually, yet only have to vaccinate their kids a few times in the same time span, should send alarm bells ringing for any, even partly informed, consumer/pet owner.

The fact that the petcare industry's carefully honed self serving message is echoed by fools ad nauseum online should also highlight caveat emptor issues imho.

Look by all means continue to over medicate your dog annually if you insist, but please don't try to castigate discerning buyers/dog owners like me as ill informed, just cos we don't drink the pet koolaid.... glug, glug get it into you!!!

DBB

daithi7 wrote: »

IMHO The fact that simpletons insist on vaccinating their dogs annually...

... echoed by fools ad nauseum online...

Steady on there daithi7... By all means make your points, but denigrating people who you don't agree with by calling them names won't be tolerated in this forum.
Do not reply to this post on thread.
Thanks,
DBB

muddypaws

daithi7 wrote: »

IMHO The fact that simpletons insist on vaccinating their dogs annually yet only have to vaccinate their kids a few times in the same time span should send alarm bells ringing for any even partly informed consumer/pet owner.
.

Wow. I'm a simpleton? Yet I've been well aware of titre testing for years, you just found out about it on an internet thread.

Core vaccines are only needed every 3 years. My money hungry vet told me that a few years ago, big pharma hey.

My dogs do get the lepto vaccine every year and shock horror, it's the lepto 4 vaccine that I choose to give them, after much discussion with my vet and my own research. The vet would give 2 or 4, I choose 4, despite the Facebook warriors with no scientific facts to back up their horror stories because we go all over Ireland and travel to the continent and sometimes my dogs puddle dip. My dogs are also house dogs, some of them even sleep under my duvet at night but they have a full life getting out and about in forests and fields.

I haven't had Kool-aid for years, can you get it in Ireland?

em_cat

Ohhhh my opinion must have hit a nerve! Name calling and all!

DBB

em_cat wrote: »

Ohhhh my opinion must have hit a nerve! Name calling and all!

Give it a rest too, em_cat. No need for the jubilation.
Might I once again remind all posters that there is a requirement for posters in the forum to address one another with some modicum of respect.
Thanks.
DBB

daithi7

em_cat wrote: »

Ohhhh my opinion must have hit a nerve! Name calling and all!

I haven't called you any names at all, but thankfully your posts display your character in full colour , no names required.... they'd be totally superfluous!!