Strategies for dealing with with coming autumn/winter

K.G.

I know the drought thread has stuff in it but just to put together a one stop shop for discussion on dealing with the near future.just a few thoughts to get us going.
Milking cows stay on 6kgs from now until drying off.you have some chance if getting the money back with milk compared to feeding her dry
Dont go chasing silage you normally have.if you have 70 % make up the rest with ration.
At the moment put out plenty p and k rather than pushing nitrogen.with the soil opening up there s going ti be a big release of mineralised N but plants might struggle to get p &k due to moisture shortage.
Dont rely on the mart to get you out of trouble.top class weanlings will still have a good market but everything else will be poor.
Culling strategy.start doing sums as regards ration/milk price/beef price

blue5000

Purcells are looking for lighter export cattle, price varies with quality, starting at 1.10/kg, but didn't hear that from them though, so it might be better than.

Cover crops on a tillage neighbour's stubbles I think would be an option for dry cows.

Wholecrop spring barley in the pit.

K.G.

Surprised at the lack of disscusion on this.the advice from other countries seems to be to protect and maintain your breeding animals which seems to contradict some of the culling that is supposed to be going on.
People have to do sums and figure how to handle it financally.accept your are not going to make money this year-we have had 4 weather events in the last 12 months which on their own would put a dent in any year.

Wildsurfer

K.G. wrote: »

Surprised at the lack of disscusion on this.the advice from other countries seems to be to protect and maintain your breeding animals which seems to contradict some of the culling that is supposed to be going on.
People have to do sums and figure how to handle it financally.accept your are not going to make money this year-we have had 4 weather events in the last 12 months which on their own would put a dent in any year.

I would say most lads have cows that should be culled. In a normal year they might leave a few quid but not this year. New milk recording reports should highlight them. And most have reached their max numbers if not thinking of reducing numbers slightly and with plenty of replacements in the country I don't think there is an issue regarding protecting breeding stock

yosemitesam1

K.G. wrote: »

Surprised at the lack of disscusion on this.the advice from other countries seems to be to protect and maintain your breeding animals which seems to contradict some of the culling that is supposed to be going on.
People have to do sums and figure how to handle it financally.accept your are not going to make money this year-we have had 4 weather events in the last 12 months which on their own would put a dent in any year.

Out in the drier parts of the US,AUS etc. They know that they're constantly going through wet/dry cycles, you're not a 100 cow farmer, you might peak at 100 cows but the weather decides, so its slow and steady culling of breeding stock as the drought continues ideally based off a plan.

Mooooo

Currently grazing second cut ground will be finished by the weekend. After tb breakdown here so looking like my sr on the whole farm will be down to just shy of 2.1 lu/ha. Have first cut untouched and maize to come along with 100 bales left., so looking at about 70 to 80% of winter requirement saved. Will make up the balance with ration as have a feeder and bin to use to do so. Rightly or wrongly still hope to make up the balance with bales made as every other year we've made the second cut in mid July we've nearly always make a share of bales in aug/Sep at a higher stocking rate than what is there now so hopefully won't need to buy in as much ration as may be needed.
Had considered setting a bit of ground for outwintering but between tb and the ground being out of action till grazing and a period after I decided against it. Will use woodchip to extend whatever straw I can get.

whelan2

Have 30 acres to do bales on in the next fortnight. Have straw. First cut untouched. Fertiliser out for 3rd cut. Got a very light 2nd cut the other day. But it's in the pit. Fingers crossed should be OK. 50% of autumn calvers dried off. Will probably sell some bales of silage to help a few lads out

Cavanjack

Second cut has started to grow this past week after the rain last Thursday night. Hoping it'll be worth cutting in a month if another bit of rain comes over the next week. Have Bulls housed to finish (lighter than I would have liked) on straw and meal. Have no cows here and 50% of the herd will be finished by November, everything else by April. The plan will be not to carry as many weanlings/stores over the winter as usual and try and buy what's needed for next year in the spring. Different story for anyone with cows I know.

Buford T. Justice XIX

https://twitter.com/ForrestalPJ/status/1022386882242641920?s=19

Timmaay

I'm gonna need the best part of 100t of hulls or some equivalent concentrate to keep things right here, I'm hopefully ok for forage but like of Glanbias Alfalfa is the backup. Do I get a decent few hulls now and try to pit, or hold of is the main question. Actually that raises another question, derogation and the imported feed limit... I haven't done the sums for where I'm going to stand with that, but not sure I even want to.

longgonesilver

The minister was on Morning Ireland this morning. He is improving, he is aware of the situation.

https://cdn.rasset.ie/manifest/audio/2018/0726/20180726_rteradio1-morningireland-anothermaj_c21404790_21404825_261_/manifest.m3u8

alps

Timmaay wrote: »

I'm gonna need the best part of 100t of hulls or some equivalent concentrate to keep things right here, I'm hopefully ok for forage but like of Glanbias Alfalfa is the backup. Do I get a decent few hulls now and try to pit, or hold of is the main question. Actually that raises another question, derogation and the imported feed limit... I haven't done the sums for where I'm going to stand with that, but not sure I even want to.

I don't think there is an imported feed limit in derogation....but could have missed it..

Imported feed has a P level, which when totalled is used to determine your chemical P allowance..

GrasstoMilk

30 acres of winter wheat gotten here too feed to dry cows. 50 acres of a second cut still to make that has been cut since end of may, will top it up with some urea next week and cut it in a few weeks and go for a third cut on 20 acres.
Have maize grown on contract that will be kept for calving cows in the spring,
Friend is sowing 30 acres of redstart to bale for us, it won't be easy but we should be grand with that. We could pick up a few bales around the parlour too if the weather stays broken into august

wrangler

longgonesilver wrote: »

The minister was on Morning Ireland this morning. He is improving, he is aware of the situation.

https://cdn.rasset.ie/manifest/audio/2018/0726/20180726_rteradio1-morningireland-anothermaj_c21404790_21404825_261_/manifest.m3u8

It's very serious, it'll be at least 2020 now before sheep and suckler farmers in the areas affected are back on an even keel.
Even then only if we get a natural autumn/winter.
Farmers are going to have to assess what fodder they have now plus what they can source and don't carry any more stock through the winter than that can feed, it's as simple as that.
''If you're going to panic, panic early''

mahoney_j

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

30 acres of winter wheat gotten here too feed to dry cows. 50 acres of a second cut still to make that has been cut since end of may, will top it up with some urea next week and cut it in a few weeks and go for a third cut on 20 acres.
Have maize grown on contract that will be kept for calving cows in the spring,
Friend is sowing 30 acres of redstart to bale for us, it won't be easy but we should be grand with that. We could pick up a few bales around the parlour too if the weather stays broken into august

30 acres wheat for dry cows ??? ,that’s veryvexpendive and too good a feed for then is it not

grassroot1

We really do need the actual figures for how to use meal to replace silage
Teagasc keep spinning about doing a fodder stock take when we should be doing winter feed plans.
I have counted what I have 100 times I know I am short

GrasstoMilk

mahoney_j wrote: »

30 acres wheat for dry cows ??? ,that’s veryvexpendive and too good a feed for then is it not

Sorry should have said winter wheat straw.

charolais0153

grassroot1 wrote: »

We really do need the actual figures for how to use meal to replace silage
Teagasc keep spinning about doing a fodder stock take when we should be doing winter feed plans.
I have counted what I have 100 times I know I am short

What have you?
What do you need?
How are you going to make up the defecit? Straights,bought in fodder,nuts?
Are ypu a member of teagasc?
If so, have you gone in to tbe office and talked it out with your advisors?

freedominacup

grassroot1 wrote: »

We really do need the actual figures for how to use meal to replace silage
Teagasc keep spinning about doing a fodder stock take when we should be doing winter feed plans.
I have counted what I have 100 times I know I am short

1kg of 14% ration replaces 5kg of silage. 1.5kg of meal plus 1kg of straw replaces 10 kg of silage. Fairly simple. You need forage to make up 50% of dry matter intakes. You could spend from now until Christmas trying to make it complicated if you wish but that's all there is to it.

Keepgrowing

grassroot1 wrote: »

We really do need the actual figures for how to use meal to replace silage
Teagasc keep spinning about doing a fodder stock take when we should be doing winter feed plans.
I have counted what I have 100 times I know I am short

How can you do a plan if you don’t do a stocktake?

Rule of thumb
Dairy cow 1.6 t/mth
Suckler 1.4
1-2. 1.3
2+. 1.3
0-1. 0.7

Multiply you cattle number by requirements by months

Gap can be filled by Soya hulls/pulp nuts. 1kg hulls will replace 4 kg fresh silage, for example.

You could finish cattle on ad-lib meal
You could sell under performing cows.

If 35 weanlings were fed 60% silage and 1.5 kg meal you could save 40 tonne of silage over 5 mths

Sell 6 cows would save 50 tonne

Spread 40 units of N
Bale surplus if possible.

It would be important to supplement with a smaller amount to stretch stocks as opposed to running short and buying 100% supplements.

As Wrangler says “panic early”

That’s my tuppence

anfieldrd

GrasstoMilk wrote:

30 acres of winter wheat gotten here too feed to dry cows. 50 acres of a second cut still to make that has been cut since end of may, will top it up with some urea next week and cut it in a few weeks and go for a third cut on 20 acres. Have maize grown on contract that will be kept for calving cows in the spring, Friend is sowing 30 acres of redstart to bale for us, it won't be easy but we should be grand with that. We could pick up a few bales around the parlour too if the weather stays broken into august

When would you bale redstart? How many bales off 30 acres do you reckon?

wrangler

freedominacup wrote: »

1kg of 14% ration replaces 5kg of silage. 1.5kg of meal plus 1kg of straw replaces 10 kg of silage. Fairly simple. You need forage to make up 50% of dry matter intakes. You could spend from now until Christmas trying to make it complicated if you wish but that's all there is to it.

+1
It's not rocket science and animals aren't like machines, they're not going to stop if they don't get the right fuel, they're fairly adaptable.
We've always gone the concentrate/straw route here and I'd be concerned that enough supply of raw materials or straights will be available right through the winter.
Anyway I don't want to be another farmer that's overthinking it on here, just saying

alps

anfieldrd wrote: »

When would you bale redstart? How many bales off 30 acres do you reckon?

I'm really not convinced by this? Nor am I convinced of the feasibility of baling the likes of westerworlds in winter.

The windows of opportunity to get gear in and out of fields at the time will be few, and the possibility of drying and preserving the crop will be fewer.

Put in redstart yesterday, and it's not going to be cheap. Predicting it at around 13c/kg, but that's without field charge and labour (away from home..Will graze), but straw savings should be deducted.

Adding a contractor cost to this makes it a very risky proposition in terms of quality and value.

Buford T. Justice XIX

alps wrote: »

I'm really not convinced by this? Nor am I convinced of the feasibility of baling the likes of westerworlds in winter.

The windows of opportunity to get gear in and out of fields at the time will be few, and the possibility of drying and preserving the crop will be fewer.

Put in redstart yesterday, and it's not going to be cheap. Predicting it at around 13c/kg, but that's without field charge and labour (away from home..Will graze), but straw savings should be deducted.

Adding a contractor cost to this makes it a very risky proposition in terms of quality and value.

Tbh, I don't think there is an inexpensive solution to a fodder shortage this year.

orm0nd

wrangler wrote: »

+1
It's not rocket science and animals aren't like machines, they're not going to stop if they don't get the right fuel, they're fairly adaptable.
We've always gone the concentrate/straw route here and I'd be concerned that enough supply of raw materials or straights will be available right through the winter.
Anyway I don't want to be another farmer that's overthinking it on here, just saying

Finding it difficult to sourc hulls at the moment and this is from a merchant I've just fully cleared a fairly hefty bill with.
Some of the filler mixes being offered by millers are best left where they are

K.G.

good info going up from lads that have experience of stretching silage.just another thing to think about how youll feed this ration in a labour efficent manner.not everyone has 2 ft acow headspace or a diet feeder and you dont want to be moving cows for feeding every day.maybe there is a logic in pulling out one group and either feeding no ration if on score or putting them on a higher levell on their own if under score.

grassroot1

freedominacup wrote:

1kg of 14% ration replaces 5kg of silage. 1.5kg of meal plus 1kg of straw replaces 10 kg of silage. Fairly simple. You need forage to make up 50% of dry matter intakes. You could spend from now until Christmas trying to make it complicated if you wish but that's all there is to it.

The above information is what we need
My point is Teagasc should now be disseminating this information instead of harping on about stocking fodder
It's time for the next step
Have I contacted my adviser yes
long ago were they of value to me certainly not

K.G.

alps wrote: »

I'm really not convinced by this? Nor am I convinced of the feasibility of baling the likes of westerworlds in winter.

The windows of opportunity to get gear in and out of fields at the time will be few, and the possibility of drying and preserving the crop will be fewer.

Put in redstart yesterday, and it's not going to be cheap. Predicting it at around 13c/kg, but that's without field charge and labour (away from home..Will graze), but straw savings should be deducted.

Adding a contractor cost to this makes it a very risky proposition in terms of quality and value.

neighbour planted rape after barley and alot of the barley that fell on the ground came with it.the way the year went it came to a fine stand of stuff which he decided to bale in the start of november with the hope that the rape would come again.as it happened he was lucky as it snowed 2 weeks later which would have wiped it out but the bales fed grand and cattle didwell with no ration on them

FeirmeoirtTed

Just wondering if anyone can offer me some advice here we have 80 milking cows/incalf heifers with 20 weanling replacements for winter 2018/19
Assuming the worst that its a 5 month winter I require 700 tonnes of silage, currently have half that saved and not sure how much more I can save. Currently grazing 2nd cut which has about 2 weeks normal growth since june 3rd.l would be hoping with rain we could get in another 150 tonne of silage reducing the deficit to 200 ton. I've about 100 bales of straw and 30 bales of hay also. Looking to buy silage but not a bale to be got around me, I've fed about 50 bales of first cut already waiting on the grass to take off and hopefully with this rain the weekend that will happen, I've about 20 acres of 2nd cut that got slurry and manure in June which I could graze for milkers or hold off for silage theres very little cover on it and I'm wondering would it be better to graze off and hope better regrowth comes or wait 5 weeks and cut as 2nd cut??

Mooooo

What's your stocking rate? I would continue grazing and walk the farm every week or few days even and takeout any surplus as it comes. Also keep feeding the cows, keep the ration at 6kgs for the rest of the year. How are facilities, can you feed all stock ration during the winter? That's how you will stretch things, feed meal with the silage/ straw for the whole winter. Are you in a discussion group or have you an advisor? Sit down and do out a few plans with them. If not the coop will have clinics or someone to help as well. Once the rain comes start spreading the fert again

FeirmeoirtTed

Feeding cows 6kg the past 2 months will continue with that stocking rate is about 2.7 lu per h. Winter facilities are good can feed meal to save forage, dont have a teagasc advisor and not in a discussion group, milking cows are in good condition good incalf rates and replacements all on targets, fodder deficit is the only albeit fairly major problem we have here. For the 2 months cows are dry im hoping to try and supplement with straw and meal for maintenance with minimal silage which is good quality, raining the past 16 hours here so hopefully that should alleviate things in the next few weeks just wondering about the silage ground in particular its growing since first week of june with very little cover on it, would it be more beneficial to graze off whats on it and go in with fertilizer again or just leave it and cut in a month??

longgonesilver

How much fertiliser has the second cut got. It will all come into the plant now and might change your options next week.

FeirmeoirtTed

Second cut got 3.5 bags of 18-6-12 and slurry back in early June drought badly affected it very dry field slurry still not washed into it but todays rain might do for it

TooOldBoots

Plans for the winter....
I've had numerous phone calls asking would I be selling silage again this year. I'd need at least €30 per bale (Big solid bales) which would be less than what i got last spring but who knows what type of winter is on the way.
This would be very profitable for me and very little work, I'm even thinking of just growing fodder next year, and not bothering with cattle. Anyone else doing this type of farming?

older by the day

TooOldBoots wrote: »

Plans for the winter....
I've had numerous phone calls asking would I be selling silage again this year. I'd need at least €30 per bale (Big solid bales) which would be less than what i got last spring but who knows what type of winter is on the way.
This would be very profitable for me and very little work, I'm even thinking of just growing fodder next year, and not bothering with cattle. Anyone else doing this type of farming?

Their will probably be a change of mind on a lot of farms after this year, I'm culling a few and cutting back from 55 cows to 45 cows, who needs the stress of this Shiite to make an average income, I reckon if you subract the Brown envelopes, glas ect. I'm working for nothing. I'm hoping not to buy nothing next year and the cheque book to go into a locked drawer. it costs me 21 Euro to make a bale and you sell for 25. It's not great is it. A few neighbours are waiting for money for silage they sold last April. Would you be better letting some land for a cut of silage let them fert, cut, bale ect. You could charge per bale no long wait for money

TooOldBoots

older by the day wrote: »

Their will probably be a change of mind on a lot of farms after this year, I'm culling a few and cutting back from 55 cows to 45 cows, who needs the stress of this Shiite to make an average income, I reckon if you subract the Brown envelopes, glas ect. I'm working for nothing. I'm hoping not to buy nothing next year and the cheque book to go into a locked drawer. it costs me 21 Euro to make a bale and you sell for 25. It's not great is it. A few neighbours are waiting for money for silage they sold last April. Would you be better letting some land for a cut of silage let them fert, cut, bale ect. You could charge per bale no long wait for money

I've my own Baler and wrapper, I reckon all in its costing me about €10/ bale
(€2 for fertilizer, €2.50 plastic, €5.50 diesel + tractor costs)
That leaves me with €20/ bale in my pocket and thats profit.

I cant see how feeding them same bales to a hungry Simmental Suckler cows over the winter will yield me profit. I done it last winter and I swear some of them cows didn't pull their heads in from the feed barriers for 5 long months

wrangler

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I've my own Baler and wrapper, I reckon all in its costing me about €10/ bale
(€2 for fertilizer, €2.50 plastic, €5.50 diesel + tractor costs)
That leaves me with €20/ bale in my pocket and thats profit.

I cant see how feeding them same bales to a hungry Simmental Suckler cows over the winter will yield me profit. I done it last winter and I swear some of them cows didn't pull their heads in from the feed barriers for 5 long months

If you're only putting about €2 worth of fertiliser on per bale you'll run out your land and quickly too.
Every bale brings about €8+ of Ps and Ks out of the land, when you run the land down no one will give you anything for bales of daisies and buttercups.......just saying

older by the day

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I've my own Baler and wrapper, I reckon all in its costing me about €10/ bale
(€2 for fertilizer, €2.50 plastic, €5.50 diesel + tractor costs)
That leaves me with €20/ bale in my pocket and thats profit.

I cant see how feeding them same bales to a hungry Simmental Suckler cows over the winter will yield me profit. I done it last winter and I swear some of them cows didn't pull their heads in from the feed barriers for 5 long months

You maybe doing it for ten Euro, the mower baler and wrapper surley cost you something to buy, time to cut bale wrap and draw, or is Labour hired, slurry costs money to agitate and spread, fert use is very low with you, 2 Euro wouldn't grow a small bale of hay in this place. I know the suckler ain't paying at the moment but it wouldn't pay the likes of me to sell bales, 21 Euro is my price to make a bale, don't to be counting on 30 Euro in the yard in 18 months time

TooOldBoots

I may have to up the amount of fertilizer, but at the moment I'm getting away with 1 bag of cut sward spread the start of April then Cut the end of June. I've no fertilizer back out on the meadows and they are half way there already.
Soil fertility may become an issue if I was to keep doing it.
I have yet to meet a farmer who puts a cost on their own labour and time! but this year with fodder shortages and the memory of last years endless winter selling now and putting the feet up for the winter is very tempting
I've got sale for the bales this year (returning customer). As I said before those Dairy folks must have plenty money

lakill Farm

The taxman will love you. E20 profit per bale.

Th exchequer surplus will be record breakinb

TooOldBoots wrote: »

I may have to up the amount of fertilizer, but at the moment I'm getting away with 1 bag of cut sward spread the start of April then Cut the end of June. I've no fertilizer back out on the meadows and they are half way there already.
Soil fertility may become an issue if I was to keep doing it.
I have yet to meet a farmer who puts a cost on their own labour and time! but this year with fodder shortages and the memory of last years endless winter selling now and putting the feet up for the winter is very tempting
I've got sale for the bales this year (returning customer). As I said before those Dairy folks must have plenty money

TooOldBoots

lakill Farm wrote: »

The taxman will love you. E20 profit per bale.

Th exchequer surplus will be record breakinb

No, my Son is a chartered Accountant. I think the Taxman will be getting F-all as usual

JohnnyFiatMan

Unless your making above the minimum wage in profits the tax man won't touch you

K.G.

A few lads here are fairly good with putting mixes together.any sugestion for simple mixes because if lads ring up looking for a simple mix if they dont already what to look fir they get walked into a nut to suit the miller

mahoney_j

K.G. wrote: »

A few lads here are fairly good with putting mixes together.any sugestion for simple mixes because if lads ring up looking for a simple mix if they dont already what to look fir they get walked into a nut to suit the miller

What are u going to feed it to ?

Who2

mahoney_j wrote: »

What are u going to feed it to ?

What’s my best options on a single blend that’ll do bull weanlings, that’ll be moved onto finishing come feb. last years weanling heifers that’ll be moved on for finishing around the same time and this years weanling heifers. And a tight budget of silage with a bit of barley straw.

blackdog1

Who2 wrote:

What’s my best options on a single blend that’ll do bull weanlings, that’ll be moved onto finishing come feb. last years weanling heifers that’ll be moved on for finishing around the same time and this years weanling heifers. And a tight budget of silage with a bit of barley straw.

I wouldn't do a nut id do crimp wheat that had 25% maize meal in it. Has to be pitted and wouldn't advise feeding it with a bucket as its an awful weight. Should work out this year at about 170-180 a tonne.

L1985

Does anyone know much about rape as a crop? We are still at a serious moisture deficit and I'm not sure if it would grow in this weather? Just getting worried for winter now and looking for new solutions....

K.G.

mahoney_j wrote: »

What are u going to feed it to ?

Nothing specific to me.i suppose im sticking up stuff to get lads thinkingg and give themselves options and hopefully lads will give some good info.fella near us feeds 50:50maize :soya hulls most of the time except whrn feeding silage to milking cows

mahoney_j

K.G. wrote: »

Nothing specific to me.i suppose im sticking up stuff to get lads thinkingg and give themselves options and hopefully lads will give some good info.fella near us feeds 50:50maize :soya hulls most of the time except whrn feeding silage to milking cows

A simple maize or barley /distillers and hulls mix .oats is also an undervalued feed

alps

Its up...redstart in last friday.

How much of a threat are pigeons? Heading away on hols at the weekend and worried that this important reserve will take a hit..

GrasstoMilk

alps wrote: »

Its up...redstart in last friday.

How much of a threat are pigeons? Heading away on hols at the weekend and worried that this important reserve will take a hit..

Have never had trouble with pigeons on any hybrid rape we've sowed. They love forage rape though. Must be a different taste off it