Is my budget deluded?

Helpish

Hey all, I'm about to jump into the market for a car. Have failed my test 3 times and that's because I've never been insured on a car, and have only got experience through lessons. Turns out now I really need a car, so I'm going to have to bite the bullet, get something, and deal with being a learner until I can get another test soon.

Am I crazy to think I can get a car out on the road for 3.5k? I want something that isn't going to let me down in the next year. I think I am probably mad here, as last time I tried to get insured on a car it was over 2.5k, but that was a car older than 10 years.

I'm hoping I could buy and get something insured for 3.5ish up front. I'd be happy enough if it was another 500 over the year with tax etc. and then hopefully get my costs down 50% next year if I can get the test before then. Madness?

colm_mcm

I think you need to get prices on insurance to start with.

Helpish

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think you need to get prices on insurance to start with.

Is there a place I'll likely get insured for less? I usually use chill for quotes.

ELM327

Buy a micra or a yaris or a polo.
Pass your test.
Don't drive unaccompanied.

bazz26

Helpish wrote: »

Is there a place I'll likely get insured for less? I usually use chill for quotes.

There is more than one insurance company/broker. Do a search on google and shop around.

Shefwedfan

As a learner are you able to drive on your own? I thought that was illegal now?

I could be wrong....it's a few years since I done my test :-)

Get insurance prices first, your 3,500 might be the insurance on its own

Helpish

There's been intentions to bring it into law but I have no other choice. I started trying to learn to drive 3 years ago, I should have bought back then and just done what I am going to do now and I'd have my full licence, but instead I was worried about driving unaccompanied and the consequences. I'm going to college on my own soon and not having a car isn't really conceivable, I won't really be able to function without it. Both the driving instructors I used for my last test told me I should just get a car because there's no other way I'll be able to learn and that the new law won't be enforced strictly if it comes in as they won't have the resources. I'll re-book my test as soon as possible, there's just no way I'm going to be able to get out on the road with a full licence without doing this now, I've done the test 3 times and don't have the support of a regular full-time drivers time.

Helpish

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Get insurance prices first, your 3,500 might be the insurance on its own

It was 2.5 on an old motor so I'd be pretty surprised if it was more than that.

Helpish

just tried to get a quote on something and no one came back to me, so i suppose thats one way they can enforce the rule.

Could anyone give me a decent idea of what filters i need to use that are important here? 1L seems like a good idea anyway.

Philb76

In all seriousness ur driving instructors should be struck off get ur licence first and thing's will be a lot easier for everything

Helpish

Philb76 wrote: »

In all seriousness ur driving instructors should be struck off get ur licence first and thing's will be a lot easier for everything

How am I supposed to do that without a car on the road? How am I suppose to guarantee I have a full-time driver with me in a place where I don't know anybody? It'll be way harder if I wait.

Del2005

Helpish wrote: »

There's been intentions to bring it into law but I have no other choice. I started trying to learn to drive 3 years ago, I should have bought back then and just done what I am going to do now and I'd have my full licence, but instead I was worried about driving unaccompanied and the consequences. I'm going to college on my own soon and not having a car isn't really conceivable, I won't really be able to function without it. Both the driving instructors I used for my last test told me I should just get a car because there's no other way I'll be able to learn and that the new law won't be enforced strictly if it comes in as they won't have the resources. I'll re-book my test as soon as possible, there's just no way I'm going to be able to get out on the road with a full licence without doing this now, I've done the test 3 times and don't have the support of a regular full-time drivers time.

It's illegal for you to drive unaccompanied now and it'll still be illegal when the introduce fines for people letting you drive illegally.

Lantus

1. Focus on passing your test and getting your full license. You must have this to drive on your own.

2. Research cheapest cars to insure. 1l varients are generally the best option. Display the n stickers for prescribed duration.

JustAThought

The days of buying a car & driving unaccompanied and getting away with it if you are white and Irish are fading. They lift cars now for unacompanied L drivers - it may have been good advice and worked ten or twenty years back but notsomuch anymore. Regardless your car will not be covered with your 3k insurance if you have a crash or if any idiot crashes into you - because you will be an unacompanied L driver -so you are just taking a big chance and wasting your money. You have failed your test 3 times - once is normal , twice is unlucky but 3 times says there is a problem. Id be getting those tick sheets out and seeing what I am doing wrong - if it is one core area like riding the clutch or if it is many and multiple things.
You saw the awful case last week of that girl driving who was seriously injured in a crash that killed her 4 childhood friends . You dont want to be part of a tragedy or cause one. 3 fails - you should NOT be be planning to be uninsured (or have what will be expensive but invalid insurance) - you will end up at best unable to get insurance in the future when you do pass it.

Helpish

JustAThought wrote: »

The days of buying a car & driving unaccompanied and getting away with it if you are white and Irish are fading.

What if you're not Irish and white?

Helpish

JustAThought wrote: »

The days of buying a car & driving unaccompanied and getting away with it if you are white and Irish are fading.

What if you're not Irish and white?

challengemaster

Helpish wrote: »

How am I supposed to do that without a car on the road? How am I suppose to guarantee I have a full-time driver with me in a place where I don't know anybody? It'll be way harder if I wait.

Plenty of people able to pass a test just by doing lessons. If you're blaming that for failing then you're just kidding yourself.

Alun

Shefwedfan wrote: »

As a learner are you able to drive on your own? I thought that was illegal now?

It's always been illegal, apart from the old "second provisional" fudge from a few years back. I don't know where people get this idea that this is a new thing.

Alun

challengemaster wrote: »

Plenty of people able to pass a test just by doing lessons. If you're blaming that for failing then you're just kidding yourself.

Whole countries manage to get people on the road and driving with just lessons from a qualified instructor in dual-control cars.

Helpish

challengemaster wrote: »

Plenty of people able to pass a test just by doing lessons. If you're blaming that for failing then you're just kidding yourself.

I don't know anybody who's passed that way, and every instructor I've had has said road experience outside of lessons is vital. Are you a driving instructor?

Mooooo

Tbh you're unlikely to get a quote online, you'll have to ring each company or try a broker. You were insured before why did you discontinue? What age are you. It's highly possible you won't get a quote for anything within your budget. Id suggest looking for accommadation closer to college and perhaps new driving instructors

professore

Helpish wrote: »

I don't know anybody who's passed that way, and every instructor I've had has said road experience outside of lessons is vital. Are you a driving instructor?

You can go into a field or private road and work away there. Have you no friends or family with driving licences?

Helpish

Alun wrote: »

Whole countries manage to get people on the road and driving with just lessons from a qualified instructor in dual-control cars.

I didn't know teaching people to drive was a public service in some countries, which countries are these? Maybe the criteria to be an instructor is also better.

sonyvision

Yes your budget is mad. My first years insurance on a 1.2 clio was 2,500 euro a year with axa. They allowed me to pay it monthly 208 or so a month earning a my no claims bonus during the year and reducing the monthly cost each quarter. (It was a student policy deal) may still do it.

My car was 8,000 but this was 3 years old with no millage I got it on finance. You can get a budget car 2,000 but it may not be up in the years.

Oh and I never had a car before this and passed my driving test with 7 driving lessons and used the school car all while sitting my leaving cert so it can be done! Bad information from your driving instructors telling you to just buy a car and the law won't be enforced. You need a better instructor!

Helpish

Mooooo wrote: »

Tbh you're unlikely to get a quote online, you'll have to ring each company or try a broker. You were insured before why did you discontinue? What age are you. It's highly possible you won't get a quote for anything within your budget. Id suggest looking for accommadation closer to college and perhaps new driving instructors

I've never been insured. I've never had a car because of my learner permit, and have never had the privilege of being insured on someone else's car to drive under their supervision. I'm in my mid-thirties.

morritty

Helpish wrote: »

I don't know anybody who's passed that way, and every instructor I've had has said road experience outside of lessons is vital. Are you a driving instructor?

I passed the test that way.

Helpish

professore wrote: »

You can go into a field or private road and work away there. Have you no friends or family with driving licences?

No one that can help with where I'm living, which has been the case for a while. Anybody older would not know half of the rules required to pass the test nowadays anyway.

Heres Johnny

Helpish wrote: »

challengemaster wrote: »

Plenty of people able to pass a test just by doing lessons. If you're blaming that for failing then you're just kidding yourself.

I don't know anybody who's passed that way, and every instructor I've had has said road experience outside of lessons is vital. Are you a driving instructor?

I did. Uncle and employer at the time bought me 12 lessons for 18th birthday and made me book the test for when lessons were over. Failed but booked again and passed couple of weeks later with 1 more lesson on the test course in Naas. No other driving experience at all.

Helpish

morritty wrote: »

I passed the test that way.

Well done, how many lessons did you do?

Helpish

sonyvision wrote: »

Oh and I never had a car before this and passed my driving test with 7 driving lessons and used the school car all while sitting my leaving cert so it can be done!

The test is different now to when you did it. Cheers for all that information though, its food for thought.

sonyvision

Helpish wrote: »

The test is different now to when you did it. Cheers for all that information though, its food for thought.

I doubt it changed that much, the basics are the same! Even had to point out how to fill the washer fluid for the wipers, answer questions at the start, reverse around the corner, observation skills... only difference now is your forced to take 12 lessons so your chances of passing should be improved!

Borderfox

I passed the test on 8 lessons in a dual control and one down in Mondello in a fiesta

OneTimePoster

Long time user of Boards here. I have found it an exceptional source of information for a variety of questions I had related to Ireland, invaluable even. Thank you, to all.

I don't like to post as I don't like getting involved in arguments about life with 18 year olds who blame their inability to get laid on "forriners", which, when you distill the online experience, is what it'll eventually come down to.

For the OP. Your budget is too small. Xsdirect would be the cheapest option. Liberty will be in the region of €2500 for 3rd party regardless of make. They also won't insure you on an old car, you will need to spend about 5k on the car alone.

For everyone else. Not only do the driving instructors tell you to buy a car and drive it on an 'L' but the testers do too. More than that, if you fail your test several times you can opt to sit with the person who oversees the testers, that person will tell you to buy a car and drive it on an 'L'.

I have seen this subject raised a number of times, which is why I am posting this here. I won't be posting again, you can take or leave the information but trust me when I tell you it is 100% the truth.

Once again, thank you to the posters and the mods for this site. It has made a difference to the ease of relocating to Ireland.

Have a long life and a painless death.

morritty

Helpish wrote: »

Well done, how many lessons did you do?

10 mandatory lessons

Henry Ford III

OneTimePoster wrote:

For everyone else. Not only do the driving instructors tell you to buy a car and drive it on an 'L' but the testers do too. More than that, if you fail your test several times you can opt to sit with the person who oversees the testers, that person will tell you to buy a car and drive it on an 'L'.

I don't believe that at all. Driving instructors, testers, and tester supervisors don't encourage and condone driving illegally.

ella23

Good god, i'm so glad I did my test in 2005! They don't make things half difficult for people trying to get on the road these days!
OP, I would agree with most people though, it is possible (albeit expensive) to pass the test with just lessons, you will be clean of all bad habits as well. If you know anyone you can get insured under it might help you for the first year to build up the no claims. A newer car if you can afford it will also help you in regards to insurance. The older mine is getting (06) the more expensive my insurance is getting I noticed!

Wildcard7

OneTimePoster wrote: »

For everyone else. Not only do the driving instructors tell you to buy a car and drive it on an 'L' but the testers do too. More than that, if you fail your test several times you can opt to sit with the person who oversees the testers, that person will tell you to buy a car and drive it on an 'L'.

You do realise that "buy a car and drive it as much as you can to gain experience" is not the same as "buy a car and drive it ON YOUR OWN", right?

troyzer

Helpish wrote: »

There's been intentions to bring it into law but I have no other choice. I started trying to learn to drive 3 years ago, I should have bought back then and just done what I am going to do now and I'd have my full licence, but instead I was worried about driving unaccompanied and the consequences. I'm going to college on my own soon and not having a car isn't really conceivable, I won't really be able to function without it. Both the driving instructors I used for my last test told me I should just get a car because there's no other way I'll be able to learn and that the new law won't be enforced strictly if it comes in as they won't have the resources. I'll re-book my test as soon as possible, there's just no way I'm going to be able to get out on the road with a full licence without doing this now, I've done the test 3 times and don't have the support of a regular full-time drivers time.

Driving a car with a learner permit unaccompanied is illegal. End of story. It's not a new law, it's already been law for quite a while now.

Having said that, I do sympathise with the OP. It took me six attempts to pass my test. My big issue was I was studying abroad and infrequentely in the country, I didn't know anybody who had a manual car and I couldn't afford loads of lessons.

You do need to get driving experience on the road. What I would suggest is to continue doing lessons but also sit it with a friend or family member. You're absolutely right that they'll give you terrible advice, my Mam has a license but the advice she was giving me as a learner was awful. There's no way she'd pass a test now.

So tell them to sit in the back and just let you drive. The key is to get the experience of being comfortable in the car, on the road. But you'll still need frequent lessons to make sure you aren't forming bad habits.

Your budget is ludicrous. My first car was €2,000 and the insurance was €2,200. And that's the lowest I've ever heard from my friends. That's with a full license.

Skatedude

Helpish wrote: »

I don't know anybody who's passed that way, and every instructor I've had has said road experience outside of lessons is vital. Are you a driving instructor?

myself and all my cousins/friends passed their test only ever driving the instructors car, so that argument doesn't hold water.

Driving unaccompanied on a learning permit isn't allowed.

rizzee

I received lessons for a birthday when I was 18. No driving experience. Did the 10 lessons over a 6 month period and booked the test around lesson 7/8. After the 10 lessons I booked another 2 and a pretest, did the test in instructors car and passed first time. Didn't get a car of my own til about a year later. Keep the head down and get your test out of the way first. Good luck

witchgirl26

JustAThought wrote: »

You have failed your test 3 times - once is normal , twice is unlucky but 3 times says there is a problem.

This isn't necessarily true. I failed my test 3 times. It was rarely the same things and at least one of those times baffled myself, my instructor and my mam who'd been to the test centre with me. It can just honestly be a series of unfortunate events.

JustAThought wrote: »

Id be getting those tick sheets out and seeing what I am doing wrong - if it is one core area like riding the clutch or if it is many and multiple things.

This is really great advice though - start looking at why you failed. Saying it's lack of experience outside the lessons is too broad. You need to see if there's a common thread that you aren't doing right. If there isn't, then have a chat to your instructor. It could be nerves getting you. Did you do any practice tests? Maybe try one with a different instructor.

As for the cost of the car & insurance - budget like that will be tight. I bought my first car 10 years ago & the car cost €3.5k and there was another €1.5k approx between tax & insurance.

Helpish

troyzer wrote: »

So tell them to sit in the back and just let you drive
.

Is this legal?

troyzer

Helpish wrote: »

Is this legal?

Yes, they don't have to sit in the passenger seat. They just have to be in the car.

I don't think they're allowed to be drunk or anything though. They have to be able to supervise, which you can do from the back seat.

MetzgerMeister

Passed my test in 2004 and was driving for about 5 months on a learner's permit before that. At that time driving on your own was against the law but it wasn't enforced as much as it is now. It was a much easier time when it comes to that but fail rates were high.

My first car (which I bought after passing my test) cost me €2,500 and the insurance was €2,200 TPFT. That was also at a time when the 10 year thing wasn't around which is making it financially harder on new drivers.

Shefwedfan

Helpish wrote: »

There's been intentions to bring it into law but I have no other choice. I started trying to learn to drive 3 years ago, I should have bought back then and just done what I am going to do now and I'd have my full licence, but instead I was worried about driving unaccompanied and the consequences. I'm going to college on my own soon and not having a car isn't really conceivable, I won't really be able to function without it. Both the driving instructors I used for my last test told me I should just get a car because there's no other way I'll be able to learn and that the new law won't be enforced strictly if it comes in as they won't have the resources. I'll re-book my test as soon as possible, there's just no way I'm going to be able to get out on the road with a full licence without doing this now, I've done the test 3 times and don't have the support of a regular full-time drivers time.

This sort of attitude gets me really angry

The above is a load of bulls**t.....

You have loads of choices. Push bikes for one.....thousands of people in Ireland are able to get around without a car.

No driving instructor would tell you just to buy a car and just drive it. So that is crap.

It's illegal for you to be on the road. If you do buy a car I honestly 100% hope the first time you go on the road a Garda gets you and absolutely throws the book at you. Jail time would be warranted in my opinion.....

If you keep failing test's it means you are a poor driver. So do more lessons. Buying a car and driving out onto the road and risking other peoples lives is completely irresponsible.

I have to bring my kids out on the road in a car in the knowledge that people like you exist.

Whats your plan if you kill someone? what do you plan on telling someone family?

Helpish

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No driving instructor would tell you just to buy a car and just drive it. So that is crap.

Do you know every single driving instructor in the country? Do you know any driving instructors?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Whats your plan if you kill someone? what do you plan on telling someone family?

What's your plan? Most fatalities on the road involve full licence drivers.

Shefwedfan

Helpish wrote: »

Do you know every single driving instructor in the country? Do you know any driving instructors?



What's your plan? Most fatalities on the road involve full licence drivers.

Really the mods on this website should send your details to the Garda to make them aware of your plans.....

Do you think it is a joke to drive on a road when you have been told 3 times that you are incapable of doing it?

Do you think it is funny to risk your life and other peoples lives?

Disgraceful

OwlsZat

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Really the mods on this website should send your details to the Garda to make them aware of your plans.....

Do you think it is a joke to drive on a road when you have been told 3 times that you are incapable of doing it?

Do you think it is funny to risk your life and other peoples lives?

Disgraceful

Feel the same. Talk is cheap. Lives aren't. Obey the laws. Low risk of getting caught is a hiding to nowhere.

beechwood55

Helpish wrote: »

Do you know every single driving instructor in the country? Do you know any driving instructors?



What's your plan? Most fatalities on the road involve full licence drivers.

Have a read of this

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/widower-i-dont-feel-sorry-for-killer-driver-467189.html

Then have a read of this
http://www.thejournal.ie/dayna-kearney-athy-road-crash-4119521-Jul2018/

Both cases involved unaccompanied learner drivers. Multiple fatalities in both cases.

Dravokivich

Helpish wrote: »

Do you know every single driving instructor in the country? Do you know any driving instructors?



What's your plan? Most fatalities on the road involve full licence drivers.

Who cares. Conditions of your permit state you should be accompanied while driving. Other than lessons extra driving for me was dependant on the availability of others.

The instructor does not have the authority to endorse your driving. Any that does in a manner that encourages you to drive unaccompanied is none other than a charlatan.

Shefwedfan

beechwood55 wrote: »

Have a read of this

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/widower-i-dont-feel-sorry-for-killer-driver-467189.html

Then have a read of this
http://www.thejournal.ie/dayna-kearney-athy-road-crash-4119521-Jul2018/

Both cases involved unaccompanied learner drivers. Multiple fatalities in both cases.

Or this

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/learner-driver-avoids-jail-over-9304217

Do we need to continue.....