Leaf 24kWh - so how bad is the range really for early cars?

unkel

Was tempted to put a £4k offer (well below the asking price) on a UK 2011 with 9 bars left. Thinking full range would be about 140km when new, so 75% of that is still a good bit over 100km (not on motorways obviously or if on motorways then driving at Leaf Speed - 90 km/h), right?

But then I saw this ad for an Irish based car

Linky


Asking €6.5k. Also a 2011 car but with only 8 bars left. Owner is stating the range is just 56km :eek:

Is the range on older Leafs really that bad?

FriendsEV

unkel wrote: »

Was tempted to put a £4k offer (well below the asking price) on a UK 2011 with 9 bars left. Thinking full range would be about 140km when new, so 75% of that is still a good bit over 100km (not on motorways obviously or if on motorways then driving at Leaf Speed - 90 km/h), right?

But then I saw this ad for an Irish based car

Linky


Asking €6.5k. Also a 2011 car but with only 8 bars left. Owner is stating the range is just 56km :eek:

Is the range on older Leafs really that bad?

8 bars left at 79k miles

Thats a disgrace

79k miles is like new

Imagine someone paid 30k for that banger 7 years ago

Soarer

I've 9 bars on mine, and currently getting closer to 100km than 50km.

Then again, I only lost my 10th bar a couple of months ago. Maybe this one is close to dropping to 7?

I've an android dongle you can borrow if you want?

Gumbo

FriendsEV wrote: »

8 bars left at 79k miles

Thats a disgrace

79k miles is like new

Imagine someone paid 30k for that banger 7 years ago

The top spec SVE was 26-27k new in 2011.
That car in the ad is basic spec, middle spec at best so maybe 23k.
Doesn’t explain the bad battery degradation but the price it’s for sale now is similar to other IVE cars of that vintage in the same price range.

Round Cable

I wonder how much a brand new battery replacement costs these days. There are YouTube videos showing US based owners changing early year Leaf batteries, the US cost was $5500. I have not heard of any Irish leaf getting a paid replacement, or even how much it would cost here.

If it were reasonable, it could make early year Leafs a more attractive purchase.

J.pilkington

Any input on what the root cause could be? Defective battery / not enough use (leaving charged at x% unused? for long periods) / incorrect charging process?

Gumbo

J.pilkington wrote: »

Any input on what the root cause could be? Defective battery / not enough use (leaving charged at x% unused? for long periods) / incorrect charging process?

There’s nothing to investigate. It was the first generation of batteries. They are known for this kind of degradation and it’s very normal in the gen 1 Leaf.

It’s one of the only drawbacks when comparing to older ICE, the older ICE doesn’t get a smaller fuel tank as it ages but the EV does.

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

I've 9 bars on mine, and currently getting closer to 100km than 50km.

So roughly 80km at reasonable (not motorway) speeds?

Been toying with the idea of a second EV for the few times a month I need a second car. The range needs to be about 100km at most, but if I need it to go that far I'd be willing to drive it smoothly and slowly. Would an 8 or 9 bar get to 100km with a smooth foot? I guess probably not?

But it just dawned on me that I've read before that it's a bad idea to leave your EV sitting there with 100% charge for prolonged periods of time?

I'm already sorted for a second car for occasional use (a classic car that's very reliable and only costs €56 to tax and €100 to insurance for the year). Maybe I should just stick with that.

ozmo

35 mile range :O

Maybe it’s one of these cars:
https://insideevs.com/nissan-issues-statement-on-leaf-30-kwh-battery-degradation/

Article says Nissan have a known issue with the larger batteries degrading faster than the smaller batteries...

Soarer

unkel wrote: »

So roughly 80km at reasonable (not motorway) speeds?

Been toying with the idea of a second EV for the few times a month I need a second car. The range needs to be about 100km at most, but if I need it to go that far I'd be willing to drive it smoothly and slowly. Would an 8 or 9 bar get to 100km with a smooth foot? I guess probably not?

But it just dawned on me that I've read before that it's a bad idea to leave your EV sitting there with 100% charge for prolonged periods of time?

I'm already sorted for a second car for occasional use (a classic car that's very reliable and only costs €56 to tax and €100 to insurance for the year). Maybe I should just stick with that.

Yeah, about 80kms I'd say without babying it too much. I'd say if I feathered it, I could push that up. Especially using LeafSpy to monitor the percentage instead of using the GOM.

That's summertime range too mind. Winter time is probably high 60s.

Gumbo

ozmo wrote: »

35 mile range :O

Maybe it’s one of these cars:
https://insideevs.com/nissan-issues-statement-on-leaf-30-kwh-battery-degradation/

Article says Nissan have a known issue with the larger batteries degrading faster than the smaller batteries...

The 30kwh battery wasn’t available back then. It’s the first generation 24kwh for sure.

unkel

Soarer wrote: »

That's summertime range too mind. Winter time is probably high 60s.

I'd need a second car much more in winter than in summer (going hiking for the day on a Saturday mostly)

Combined with the notion that an EV sitting at 100% SOC for weeks on end would be a bad idea, I think I'll stick to ICE as my second (occasional use) car

liamog

Buy a small diesel car, think of it as a scrappage investment

unkel

Diesel? Banned.

I have a second car. And a third car. Both classics. I was just toying with the idea of having a second EV but that doesn't work for me. It looks like I will be keeping both my classic cars (an '87 Mercedes I6 auto and a '99 Porsche flat 6 manual)

FriendsEV

unkel wrote: »

Diesel? Banned.

I have a second car. And a third car. Both classics. I was just toying with the idea of having a second EV but that doesn't work for me. It looks like I will be keeping both my classic cars (an '87 Mercedes I6 auto and a '99 Porsche flat 6 manual)

Why would you want an old Leaf as 2nd car with the collection you have?

Only reason to own one is for running costs

If that's not a problem I don't see the point

liamog

We've the eUp as a second car, somewhat different as it get's daily use.
Range is around 90km during the winter months, it's more fun to drive than the Ioniq.

Will probably be replacing it with a Kona Electric at some point, the way depreciation on EVs is going, plus the €500 toll discount means it should have a good market in Dublin. I expect that when I sell it on, the money I'll lose will be approx the same as the petrol I would of spent.

ELM327

I had a gen 1.5 24kWh leaf.
It had between 90 and 94% SOC during my ownership. I added 60k km to the car.

I explored the limits of the range, arriving often at chargers with "---", no bars, and 0%/1%/2% on the display of the charging unit.

In that car with all 12 bars the range was 110-120km off the motorway. 100-110km on the motorway at an indicated 105 km/h, and comfortably below 100km if you drive at non leafspeed.

Unkle - as I have owned both the 24kWh leaf and now the Ioniq the leaf feels like 50 years behind. I can not put this suggestion strongly enough... do not buy one if you are going to drive it on the motorway at real motorway speeds. It will do it, and I've done 500-700km a couple of times in a day in it but by god it will put pounds on your belly with all the MSA coffee and snacks, and take hair off your head with the stress. It turned mine grey!

Padraig Mor

ELM327 wrote: »

In that car with all 12 bars the range was 110-120km off the motorway. !

That seems pretty low. I occasionally do a 120km roundtrip on backroads (with 4 on board) that uses a consistent 82% on my 24kWh, indicating a total range of ~150km. I reckon I could get even better without problem but I'm not prepared to drive slow enough for that. My day to day range seems to be max ~100 - 110km, but that includes a good whack of motorway at 120km/h and beyond.

unkel

FriendsEV wrote: »

Why would you want an old Leaf as 2nd car with the collection you have?

Only reason to own one is for running costs

If that's not a problem I don't see the point

Aye. I was thinking of selling the Mercedes, but it does indeed have very low total cost of ownership. But the tax on the Porsche I can't really justify €1080 per year or €305 per quarter) for a car I use so little. But maybe I should just keep both - a second EV that sits in my drive for weeks on end with a 100% charge is probably not a good idea.

And I know that if I sold the Porsche I would come to regret it more than selling any other car I've ever owned!

Pkiernan

Padraig Mor wrote: »

That seems pretty low. I occasionally do a 120km roundtrip on backroads (with 4 on board) that uses a consistent 82% on my 24kWh, indicating a total range of ~150km. I reckon I could get even better without problem but I'm not prepared to drive slow enough for that. My day to day range seems to be max ~100 - 110km, but that includes a good whack of motorway at 120km/h and beyond.

What year is your car if you don't mind me asking?

ELM327

Padraig Mor wrote: »

That seems pretty low. I occasionally do a 120km roundtrip on backroads (with 4 on board) that uses a consistent 82% on my 24kWh, indicating a total range of ~150km. I reckon I could get even better without problem but I'm not prepared to drive slow enough for that. My day to day range seems to be max ~100 - 110km, but that includes a good whack of motorway at 120km/h and beyond.

You must be a lot more light footed than me so!
But I regularly get over 200km range in the Ioniq on the motorway - higher than some users - so I don't think it's me, I think it's the L24.

unkel wrote: »

Aye. I was thinking of selling the Mercedes, but it does indeed have very low total cost of ownership. But the tax on the Porsche I can't really justify €1080 per year or €305 per quarter) for a car I use so little. But maybe I should just keep both - a second EV that sits in my drive for weeks on end with a 100% charge is probably not a good idea.

And I know that if I sold the Porsche I would come to regret it more than selling any other car I've ever owned!

Was that the v8 porsche 928?
Yes I think you should sell it, in about 18 months so I can buy it when I move house and have storage again!

cros13

unkel wrote: »

Diesel? Banned.

I have a second car. And a third car. Both classics. I was just toying with the idea of having a second EV but that doesn't work for me. It looks like I will be keeping both my classic cars (an '87 Mercedes I6 auto and a '99 Porsche flat 6 manual)

Have you considered a Twizy? You can get one battery owned and mod them to nearly double the motor power output for a bit of fun.
They are more fun than they look to drive too. RWD, unassisted steering.

unkel

I have but they seem to be very expensive even with battery leased? And I don't think you'd get them close to the 100km in winter, even with a very light foot. And I don't even mind they have no windows when I take it for a winter hike in the Wicklow mountains

ELM327 wrote: »

Was that the v8 porsche 928?

I sold that about 4-5 years ago after I was forced to have it off the road for years during the recession. You lose the love of the car that way when it is sitting on your drive slowly getting bad...It was good to see someone recently passed the NCT in it and sold it on DD

No, this one is a very good condition early Boxster. I have no intention of ever selling it

ELM327

Twizy max range is 70-80km though.
They do pop up with no battery lease very occasionally. In Norway they were sold with no lease and as there's no LHD/RHD variance (with only one seat) they get brought in.

Padraig Mor

Pkiernan wrote: »

What year is your car if you don't mind me asking?

152 L24. 62k km on her now.

ELM327 wrote: »

You must be a lot more light footed than me so!
But I regularly get over 200km range in the Ioniq on the motorway - higher than some users - so I don't think it's me, I think it's the L24.

Light footed is the last thing I am believe me! I reckon I've got the fastest Leaf in Cork! However, I have long (pre-EV) enjoyed the somewhat nerdy challenge of smooth driving (anticipation and avoiding use of brakes as far as practicable) - something which is undoubtedly suited to EV, and B mode in the Leaf (which I always use) really works well with this.

I've just ordered a new Leaf 40, but absolutely would have considered an Ioniq......if I could get one!