New Farmer - Buying Car/4x4

IrishZeus

Hi all,

Looking for some advice. Over the past few years, we have acquired a small/medium sheep farm in donegal. We also have a house on the farm which we renovated and we are now looking at moving there full time.

It’s a remote location so due to running the farm itself and making sure we have reliable year-round access, we’re looking at getting a 4x4 - something like a Ford Ranger or another that would qualify as a commercial vehicle.

We’re looking for advice on whether this can be bought through the farm in order to claim back vat etc? Similar for diesel/tax/insurance - can these be paid through our farm account? Can vat be claimed back on everything?

Thanks for any advice - we want to get up there ASAP and are trying to make sure we take as little expense into it as possible so any advice on the above would be appreciated. The farm is operational fully so the vehicle is out only required expenditure at the moment.

P.

Mooooo

You can only claim back vat if you are vat registered, which most livestock farmers wouldn't be. You can put the costs of running the vehicle down as farm expenses such as diesel maintenance etc. The vehicle can be written off over 8 years as well, so 12.5 % of the cost of the vehicle every year won't be taxed but of course you have to be making a profit to save on the tax element. Perhaps talk to an accountant before ye go ahead

KingNerolives

Isuzu rodeo around 2007-2010
Ultra reliable and cheap

IrishZeus

Mooooo wrote: »

You can only claim back vat if you are vat registered, which most livestock farmers wouldn't be. You can put the costs of running the vehicle down as farm expenses such as diesel maintenance etc. The vehicle can be written off over 8 years as well, so 12.5 % of the cost of the vehicle every year won't be taxed but of course you have to be making a profit to save on the tax element. Perhaps talk to an accountant before ye go ahead

Thanks Moooo. We have an accountant but I’m trying to self-educate myself also so thanks for the help.

Does the vehicle have to be new in order to write off the 12.5%? We’re not vat registered but we are profitable so we are in a position to write off - but wondering would we still write off 12.5% of the purchase price on a 3 year old vehicle for example? (Probably over the remaining 5 years?)

Also, in relation to the diesel - can the full amount be written off? E.g if we spend €2000/year on diesel, can this all be claimed as an expense or just a % thereof? (The same for insurance and tax?)

Final one if you don’t mind - does it have to be a commercial vehicle? E.g a Ranger vs a Corolla. (We are looking at a double cab ranger or similar as it would also work as a family runaround if we’re stuck)

Thanks again for your help, genuinely appreciated,

P.

IrishZeus

KingNerolives wrote: »

Isuzu rodeo around 2007-2010
Ultra reliable and cheap

It’s a double cab pickup I would like so that would be an option. Love the look of the new Rangers with the Limited spec. (Wildtrak would be wasted on us and outside budget too)

Any opinion on the Rangers - are they reliable? It won’t have a massively hard life with us.

Mooooo

IrishZeus wrote: »

Thanks Moooo. We have an accountant but I’m trying to self-educate myself also so thanks for the help.

Does the vehicle have to be new in order to write off the 12.5%? We’re not vat registered but we are profitable so we are in a position to write off - but wondering would we still write off 12.5% of the purchase price on a 3 year old vehicle for example? (Probably over the remaining 5 years?)

Also, in relation to the diesel - can the full amount be written off? E.g if we spend €2000/year on diesel, can this all be claimed as an expense or just a % thereof? (The same for insurance and tax?)

Final one if you don’t mind - does it have to be a commercial vehicle? E.g a Ranger vs a Corolla. (We are looking at a double cab ranger or similar as it would also work as a family runaround if we’re stuck)

Thanks again for your help, genuinely appreciated,

P.

It doesn't have to be new, it's a capital expense you are writing off at the value you pay for. I think it has to be a commercial tho your accountant will confirm. With regard to percentages a general rule of thumb I think is 2/3 farm cost one third private so with a car diesel, maintenance costs etc would be split that way. With a commercial if mainly used for farm work I assume 100% would be a cost. Basically if you get an audit whatever you put down must be a justified expense to them. Edit by them I mean revenue commisioner

KingNerolives

IrishZeus wrote: »

KingNerolives wrote: »

Isuzu rodeo around 2007-2010
Ultra reliable and cheap

It’s a double cab pickup I would like so that would be an option. Love the look of the new Rangers with the Limited spec. (Wildtrak would be wasted on us and outside budget too)

Any opinion on the Rangers - are they reliable? It won’t have a massively hard life with us.

Rangers aren't known to be great at high miles (above 150k). New rangers are expensive but if you have the pocket for it..

Mooooo

You may be able to right off a car as well I see I another thread, up to 3k max over 8 years so again double check with the accountant

IrishZeus

Have you ever had any issues using the farm vehicle for personal use? Not allowed once taxed commercially but it is widespread. Where we are is extremely rural so doubt there’d be issues.

wrangler

IrishZeus wrote: »

Have you ever had any issues using the farm vehicle for personal use? Not allowed once taxed commercially but it is widespread. Where we are is extremely rural so doubt there’d be issues.

It's never policed so you're safe enough

kevthegaff

Can you have two jeeps with the one herd number? Looking at the newer landcruiser fair expensive even the 3-4 yr old ones

wrangler

kevthegaff wrote: »

Can you have two jeeps with the one herd number? Looking at the newer landcruiser fair expensive even the 3-4 yr old ones

They're expensive alright, you'd get a lovely spec'd new ranger/hilux etc for around the same price as a three year old cruiser, I was thinking of one too before the law changes this month but reckoned they were too dear

josephsoap

wrangler wrote: »

They're expensive alright, you'd get a lovely spec'd new ranger/hilux etc for around the same price as a three year old cruiser, I was thinking of one too before the law changes this month but reckoned they were too dear

What way is the law changing next month?

wrangler

josephsoap wrote: »

What way is the law changing next month?

I'm not sure of the details but apparently you won't be allowed register the likes of the 5 seater land cruiser/dscovery etc as business and no longer on the low tax of €333.
It could put up the price of the landcruiser by 25%, so the present secondhands are way over priced, road tax will go up by about €1000 as well on the new ones.
These changes are planned for 31st july

Mooooo

All new jeeps with 5 seats won't be allowed as n1 crewcabs as they're changing the law to say the load are must be be seperate from the cab. Pickup types will be fine but landcruseirs pajeros discovery will all be higher vrt and not vat qualifying. Old ones are fine but that's what's keeping up the price of seconhand ones, 3 to 4 year old ones seem to be advertised at not far off the new price paid for them

kevthegaff

Wanted one as their the best Jeep, have 2 kids with another along the way. Might hold out now till more clarity on the new tax laws. 2hand landcruisers price will take some wack if your correct wrangler

Grueller

kevthegaff wrote: »

Wanted one as their the best Jeep, have 2 kids with another along the way. Might hold out now till more clarity on the new tax laws. 2hand landcruisers price will take some wack if your correct wrangler

Wrangler is bang on. They are a great yoke though. A friend has a 5 seat commercial one, automatic. Lovely, lovely wagon but some sow on the go juice.

wrangler

kevthegaff wrote: »

Wanted one as their the best Jeep, have 2 kids with another along the way. Might hold out now till more clarity on the new tax laws. 2hand landcruisers price will take some wack if your correct wrangler

I'd love one too, never really suited here as the dogs would destroy it, hilux was always more appropriate
You will still be able to buy them secondhand, but you can get a new 5 seater business now for around €60000 and a 7 seater which is basically the same jeep is near €100000 and 1200 to tax. In fact a friend was telling me she was given the two extra seats for hers if ahe had the courage to put them in

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/commercial-vehicle-vrt-hike-delayed-for-four-months-835828.html

arctictree

IrishZeus wrote: »

Have you ever had any issues using the farm vehicle for personal use? Not allowed once taxed commercially but it is widespread. Where we are is extremely rural so doubt there’d be issues.

Been stopped a number of times with the young lad in the passenger seat. Never a word said.

Mooooo

wrangler wrote: »

I'd love one too, never really suited here as the dogs would destroy it, hilux was always more appropriate
You will still be able to buy them secondhand, but you can get a new 5 seater business now for around €60000 and a 7 seater which is basically the same jeep is near €100000 and 1200 to tax. In fact a friend was telling me she was given the two extra seats for hers if ahe had the courage to put them in

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/farming/commercial-vehicle-vrt-hike-delayed-for-four-months-835828.html

How do you find the seat in the hilux? Never liked the legs being higher up in the pickup type machines buy haven't been in any newer ones

lakill Farm

arctictree wrote: »

Been stopped a number of times with the young lad in the passenger seat. Never a word said.

once the air bag is turned off if they are in a car seat.

wrangler

Mooooo wrote: »

How do you find the seat in the hilux? Never liked the legs being higher up in the pickup type machines buy haven't been in any newer ones

I would like to be driving more erect too, but the hilux is the best of them I thought. Ranger and Dmax were the only ones I tried and they are low.
I was in IFA , so needed the interior clean for going to meetings so the separate cargo area of the crew cab was ideal for dirty dogs etc

ml100

lakill Farm wrote: »

once the air bag is turned off if they are in a car seat.

Passanger seat air bag only needs to be switched off if you have a rear facing child seat in the passenger's seat