Music Formats

mattcullen

Most of my music collection is made of CDs which I play through and amp and decent speakers. Space is becoming an issue. ANyone any suggestions on my options for a new set up where I can still have decent sound quality? (not into mps3)

The Nal

mattcullen wrote: »

Most of my music collection is made of CDs which I play through and amp and decent speakers. Space is becoming an issue. ANyone any suggestions on my options for a new set up where I can still have decent sound quality? (not into mps3)

Get a few of these and ditch the CD boxes



Or get a Chromecast and sign up to Spotify or (for much better sound quality) Tidal.

squawker

CD to FLAC Ripper

Install Plex media server

Done

mattcullen

Thanks all,

If I Rip to FLAC, then I need to play all my music through a laptop or PC yeah? And hook up laptop to amp?
I use chromecast for streaming from laptop to TV but how could it be used to stream from laptop if using am and speakers?

squawker

mattcullen wrote: »

If I Rip to FLAC, then I need to play all my music through a laptop or PC yeah? And hook up laptop to amp?

nope, with Plex media server you can access on any Internet connected device

You will need a Plex server server running, the cheapest way is to get a Raspberry Pi and install Plex Media Server on it

Then attach a removable hard drive or USB stick with your FLAC collection and let Plex scan the library

you can use a PC for your media server but the Pi is very low wattage and cheap to have always on

CalamariFritti

I looked into that Plex thing. What I don't like about it you need an account and without an account nothing goes. I don't want my files on the internet (I know they're not public) and I dont want some company indexing my media files. Yes I have trust issues. None of this is needed to organise my local CD collection. It's just another company grabbing as much data as they can on you to try to sell you 'premium' services by the looks of it.

squawker

lol, does that tin foil hat ever get itchy?

https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-legal/

as for Plex "selling" you premium services is nonsense, its completely free (even though I bought a lifetime subscription to support the devs)

they don't "index" your files, this is done locally on your server with Metadata scraped from Gracenote / Lastfm / Discogs

CalamariFritti

Yes it may sound paranoid but like I said I have trust issues. Companies like that are only a court order or change in direction away from re-writing their T&C's and operating procedures.

I fail to see why I have to connect to a company with a subscription account at all for organising my local CD collection. I'd rather just pay for a good program and be done with it.

The Nal

So what are you trying to do exactly? Rip all your CDs and have them available to you wherever? Across multiple devices etc?

Or are you just looking for a new way to listen to music?

Whats wrong with streaming?

CalamariFritti

The Nal wrote: »

So what are you trying to do exactly? Rip all your CDs and have them available to you wherever? Across multiple devices etc?

Or are you just looking for a new way to listen to music?

Whats wrong with streaming?

Ye have most of them ripped already. Want a nice organiser that also feeds into my AVR. The choice was either Plex on the playstation or Kodi on an android box. I went with the latter.

Not only does Plex need a subscription but you also need a Plex server. Thats on top of the NAS/DNLA server that I already have with my fritzbox. Which Kodi is perfectly happy with.

Streaming is ok but I have all that stuff already why stream it again? I'm so yesterday I guess.

As to the OP: I'd flac them (or mp3 320) put them on a drive and use kodi on a little android box for an on screen catalogue and as a player inputting into the AVR. Thats practically what my current setup looks like and it works vey well. If you have a little movie collection it will do the same for them.

The Nal

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Ye have most of them ripped already. Want a nice organiser that also feeds into my AVR. The choice was either Plex on the playstation or Kodi on an android box. I went with the latter.

Streaming is ok but I have all that stuff already why stream it again? I'm so yesterday I guess.

As to the OP: I'd flac them (or mp3 320) and use kodi for an on screen catalogue.

Thats a lot of hassle. Sign up to Tidal HiFi for a trial. Its free and does all that for you. And you can access it anywhere.

I played around with various ways for a few years as you're exploring - Kodi, Raspberry Pi, a server etc - but its just hassle. Time to accept that CDs (and DVDs) are dead I suppose. Remove the clutter and go with the best quality streaming service.

squawker

The Nal wrote: »

Sign up to Tidal HiFi for a trial..

€20 a month :eek:

think I will continue ripping my own Vinyl and CDs from Discogs

don't fancy giving a streaming service €240 a year and nothing to show for it

(if anyone wants a look at my Plex library, PM me)

The Nal

squawker wrote: »

€20 a month :eek:

think I will continue ripping my own Vinyl and CDs from Discogs

don't fancy giving a streaming service €240 a year and nothing to show for it

(if anyone wants a look at my Plex library, PM me)

You have unlimited access to high quality music anywhere to show for it.

The Masters section is beautiful. Considering I used to spend €300 ish on CDs a month, €20 all you can eat is a bargain.

squawker

The Nal wrote: »

You have unlimited access to high quality music anywhere to show for it.

you mean for as long as you pay the Sub

give me my own built music collection anyday

my3cents

Might be relevant here? I've noticed that some of the better downloads I get are flac files and include an ISO of the original CD so if there is some future change in technology you can rip the ISO to whatever the new format is.

HDD space is getting cheaper and HDD's are getting larger so I don't think thats such a bad idea.

The Nal

squawker wrote: »

you mean for as long as you pay the Sub

give me my own built music collection anyday

Tidal/Spotify etc have between 30 and 50 million tracks. Doubt you have that many in your CD rack!

Vinyl aside, physical music is dead folks. As are physical movies and the need for hard drives.

Let it go.

squawker

The Nal wrote: »

Tidal have 48 million tracks

and what that's got to do with it?

Fact is with a streaming service, you will need to pony up your subscription fee for the rest of your life

Tidal could go under tomorrow, at least my FLACs are safely backed up and are mine forever

seachto7

The Nal wrote: »

Get a few of these and ditch the CD boxes



Or get a Chromecast and sign up to Spotify or (for much better sound quality) Tidal.

I have these for my CDs, but the thing is I still have my sleeves stored in the CD cases in the attic

I've stopped buying CDs en masse. Only buy the odd few now.


I had started a vinyl collection but don't see the point... It's taking up more space.

seachto7

The Nal wrote: »

Tidal/Spotify etc have between 30 and 50 million tracks. Doubt you have that many in your CD rack!

Vinyl aside, physical music is dead folks. As are physical movies and the need for hard drives.

Let it go.

I also have 1000s of songs on a hard drive to go with my CDs.

The Nal

squawker wrote: »

Tidal could go under tomorrow, at least my FLACs are safely backed up and are mine forever

If they go under you can transfer everything, all playlists etc, to another streaming service. Using something like this.

https://soundiiz.com/

FLACs sitting on a hard drive are no good if you want to listen to them on a beach in Spain. Or if you want to switch from listening on your phone to your amp at the click of a button. You can sign in from anywhere, on anyones device and have your music library to hand. You can even download music to your device for offline playback.

I've explored all the routes and held off for as long as I could but theres no getting away from streaming being by far the best option. Otherwise you'll be dicking about with hard drives (which will fail), virtual media servers, buggy media players and so on.

seachto7 wrote: »

I also have 1000s of songs on a hard drive to go with my CDs.

As did I. Threw the hard drive in the bin. Less clutter. They were all available on streaming.

squawker

The Nal wrote: »

FLACs sitting on a hard drive are no good if you want to listen to them on a beach in Spain

I can listen to them anywhere I want with Plex

and costs me absolutely nothing

beauf

You get to explore more music with a streaming service. I still a library of my old ripped CDs and older. But I was finding myself in a musical rut. Between youtube and streaming I discover a lot of new music especially new bands.

seachto7

The Nal wrote: »

Thats a lot of hassle. Sign up to Tidal HiFi for a trial. Its free and does all that for you. And you can access it anywhere.

I played around with various ways for a few years as you're exploring - Kodi, Raspberry Pi, a server etc - but its just hassle. Time to accept that CDs (and DVDs) are dead I suppose. Remove the clutter and go with the best quality streaming service.

I wonder would it even be possible to sell a collection of CDs now? I have a bunch of live concert dvds as well, and am half tempted to keep them all. If I ever "settle" somewhere, I'll be able to sit and fire on CDs , same as vinyl...

The Nal

seachto7 wrote: »

I have these for my CDs, but the thing is I still have my sleeves stored in the CD cases in the attic

I chucked mine in the bin. Awful format.

seachto7 wrote: »

I had started a vinyl collection but don't see the point... It's taking up more space.

Vinyl is the best sound available.

beauf wrote: »

You get to explore more music with a streaming service. I still a library of my old ripped CDs and older. But I was finding myself in a musical rut. Between youtube and streaming I discover a lot of new music especially new bands.

Yeah a huge benefit. Theres bands I love and gigs I've seen that have only happened because of streaming services.

seachto7 wrote: »

I wonder would it even be possible to sell a collection of CDs now? I have a bunch of live concert dvds as well, and am half tempted to keep them all. If I ever "settle" somewhere, I'll be able to sit and fire on CDs , same as vinyl...

Oh yeah keep the concert DVDs! For various licensing laws etc you'll probably never find versions as good online.

CD boxes are horrible pieces of plastic though that take up loads of space.

I'm settled in the gaff now and have the CDs in shelves on the wall but haven't touched them for 5 years apart from switching a few out in the car.

seachto7

You chucked your CDs in the bin? Or the cases?

The Nal

seachto7 wrote: »

You chucked your CDs in the bin? Or the cases?

Sorry, I chucked the DVD cases in the bin. As above, I've the CDs in their cases on shelving but we're moving and they're going in the bin too. Will keep the CDs in a few wallets in the attic. Couldn't bring myself to chuck them.

Only advice I can give is to give Spotify or Tidal (if you have a decent setup) a go. Its a free trial with no obligation to continue.

squawker

beauf wrote: »

You get to explore more music with a streaming service

I use

https://www.music-map.com to find similar artists/music I like

Found lots of great stuff using this site

beauf

CD's are worth nothing. Can't give them away. Only use them if I'm using the car which still has a CD player, or some CD players in the house.

The Nal

squawker wrote: »

I use

https://www.music-map.com to find similar artists/music I like

Found lots of great stuff using this site

Feel like I've shares at this stage but Spotify in particular do this very well for you based on what you listen to. The Discover playlist on a Monday morning is a thing of joy.

seachto7

I couldn’t see myself throwing out the cases but can see how it would practical to just keep the discs.
I’m on Spotify as well

dr.fuzzenstein

The Nal wrote: »

I chucked mine in the bin. Awful format.

Absolutely not. At 44100 kHz, 16 bits still superior to mp3 or streaming (which is mostly 128 kbits), so no reason to chuck them.
My CDs are sitting on a Pi that makes them available via DLNA or Samba. There's flac, wav and mp3. And mp3 is easily the second or third worst format, but they're handy on the go or in the car. You won't hear the difference.
The worst format actually is tape cassette.
Every device in my household picks that up.
A copy sits on a memory stick connected to my Android head unit in the car, so I have them on the go.

Vinyl is the best sound available.

I find that a bit of a "man down the pub told me" myth. Vinyl has a terrible signal to noise ratio compared to CDs. People go on about the "warm, analog sound", but nobody knows that that comes from the analog master tape. You can digitise an old master tape and it will sound stunning. You can take some new, mostly digital music and slam it on vinyl and it will sound terrible.
Besides, modern vinyl is most likely a digital file scratched into a master anyway. At the end of the day it's a generational copy that adds hiss, crackle, pops and signal degradation.
So, the best sound available is an analog magnetic master tape. Very, very good, but hugely impractical on the move.

emo72

Well I ripped everything to flac, and store it on my pc. Then I can access it anywhere with Google music. I also have a pi linked to my pc and use rune audio as a controller. So that's everything covered I guess for free.

Edit.. sorry I have a pi linked to my hifi, pi to dac. It does a the decoding then on to amp, it's brilliant. I use an audiolab M1 dac so it's fairly decent. But the magic is the file quality. No flac, no fun.

mattcullen

Wow, I feel like I've just stepped out of the 90's!! Not familiar with any of the terminology 'Pi', 'AVR' etc.

Like some of the other posters here I struggle with the idea of paying for a streaming service. Maybe it's nostalgic but I like the idea of owning my music. I'm coming round to the idea that it doesn't have to be in a physical format but I still would like it to be mine.

Let's say I rip my CDs to FLAC and use plex or some such to organise my files and play my music, what are my options in terms of amps etc.? My current set up is an old technics amp, cd player, wonky belt drive turntable which needs replacing, decent speaker cable and decent but budget bookshelf speakers ('Tannoy f1 Mercurys' I think).

If I rip all my CDs to a drive and play on laptop for example,do I need to ditch the amp? I've connected my laptop to the amp before using the headphone jack and a red and white on the amp end but it sounded awful (listening to music from i tunes playlists)

dr.fuzzenstein

There is tons of hardware available that means you can keep the existing setup.
You just need a media server that makes the files available over the network (that's why Raspberry Pi was mentioned, a credit card sized computer) and something that can receive the music.
In my living room my telly can pick up media files (I also have a few hundred movies on the Pi) and in the kitchen for a bit of fun I used a 1970 ITT stereo to which I hooked up an old Samsung S3 mobile phone and it functions as internet radio and mp3 player.

The second aux in on the kitchen stereo will soon be equipped with a Bluetooth receiver so it works as a Bluetooth speaker.
You get these for little money on Amazon and eBay.
The advantage of purchasing one of these is that you get to keep the old hardware and speakers which is miles superior to the new plastic crap with tinny little speakers you get today.
That way you can build a system that us compatible with digital for absolute buttons. Something of similar quality would cost north of a grand if you bought Bose or some other hyped up nonsense.

Maybe get a Pi (or something ready made, a Pi needs some fiddling) and a tablet to hook up to your stereo. The tablet can play your mp3 and whatever streaming service you'd like.

The Nal

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Absolutely not. At 44100 kHz, 16 bits still superior to mp3 or streaming (which is mostly 128 kbits), so no reason to chuck them.

You'll notice the difference on Tidal Masters which is 96,000 kHz, 24 bit.

The big plus with streaming is discovering new music though. And new albums available to play within a second of their release.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I find that a bit of a "man down the pub told me" myth. Vinyl has a terrible signal to noise ratio compared to CDs. People go on about the "warm, analog sound", but nobody knows that that comes from the analog master tape. You can digitise an old master tape and it will sound stunning. You can take some new, mostly digital music and slam it on vinyl and it will sound terrible.
Besides, modern vinyl is most likely a digital file scratched into a master anyway. At the end of the day it's a generational copy that adds hiss, crackle, pops and signal degradation.
So, the best sound available is an analog magnetic master tape. Very, very good, but hugely impractical on the move.

Nah its not a myth. I'm obviously referring to good quality pressings and from the analogue masters where possible. Not shítty digital to vinyl rip offs like in the 90s.

Vinyl can't be replicated via a digital source. Particularly with any instrument that uses air - sax, trumpets etc. Digital just doesn't capture it.

Although I do have a copy of Appetite for Destruction that sounds like I'm spinning an empty packet of Monster Munch on the turntable.

Nice little hobby though. Wandering about record fairs picking up bargains.

dr.fuzzenstein

I do love my old vinyl. I have about 200 records in wouldn't trade for the world. Hot Buttered Soul, Rubber Soul and Book of Taliesyn (Deep Purple) sound absolutely great on vinyl. I turned those albums into mp3s for the car and they still sound great.
But there is a consistent myth that "vinyl makes the sound warm" and that is the misconception.
If vinyl altered the sound in such a way, besides adding noise, it would be a terrible medium.
What gives the analog sound is the use of proper instruments, amps with valves, analog mixing desk and the most important thing of them all: analog magnetic tape. Look up tape bias.
There are many albums recorded in the 80's and 90's that sound like a bucket of sick being emptied into a toilet. The vinyl does nothing.
The reason that a lot of albums from the time sound sh*te is because bands recorded almost entirely electronic on cheap instruments and in a hurry whilst stoned and analog tape was dumped in favour of DAT.
But if you got a CD of a properly recorded album from the 60's and 70's and it's one of the better remasters, it can sound great.
Kraftwek is a good case in point. I have a remaster of Man Machine on CD and The Robots absolutely rocks. Blows your brains out.
It never sounded that good in the original vinyl.
Queen 1 and 2 are terrible sounding vinyls, infinitely inferior to the CD release.
Old vinyl can sound terrible.
Very new vinyl sounds great in comparison, but that's more the remaster rather than the vinyl somehow taking the sound and magically making it better. Well, I'd have to get a CD version of Axis Bold as Love and compare to my 180 gramm vinyl. I doubt the CD will sound terrible in comparison.
CDs got a bad rep because of crappy 80's and 90's releases and the loudness wars, but vinyl from that era doesn't fare much letter. Many cheap and hasty pressings.
You can get great sound from both, there are so many variables and each can also be sh*tty.
But I would never say one is ALWAYS better than the other.
What I think, all analog recording equipment and tape is the most important thing for that "warm" sound and for end use digital is great.
Actually, want to try out magnetic tape sound without spending thousand on a reel to reel setup?
Get a good NICAM VCR, hook it up like a tape deck and record some sound.
These things had stonking great audio quality. They were never appreciated. Important, they have to record the audio on the video section and not with linear heads.
Quality wise, they blow my reel to reel into the middle of next week.
I could talk about this stuff for hours.

squawker

Sounds right up my street, pity I will be away on holidays.

Thought a few of you guys on this thread would be interested


"from July 19th to 28th at the Hennessy Sound Lounge, music lovers and the culturally curious will have the chance to meet with seven of Ireland’s most avid vinyl collectors, delve a little deeper into their collections, listen to some of their favourite tracks and hear about their lives in the music industry."


https://www.rte.ie/culture/2018/0711/978016-handcrafting-the-perfect-sound-system/

mattcullen

Folks, can someone explain to me what the raspberry pi is? I’ve tried some google searches but most of the threads or articles I’ve come across assume the reader already knows? Do you store the music on the Pi like a hard drive? Is it attached to the computer or to the DAC?

I’m planning on ripping the CDs to FLAC using a free online converted if available, using a program to organise and play the music (I think someone mentioned ‘Ruin’) and getting a DAC for my amp. Just don’t understand what the Raspberry Pi is for?

emo72

The raspberry pi is just pc in miniature. I have one or 2 for specific jobs. They are only about 20 euro. One of them is just used as a music player. I have installed a basic os on it and it runs rune audio for me.

emo72

Also all my files are stored on 1 terabyte hard drives, which connect to the pi via USB. Then the pi is connected to a dac via USB. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

mattcullen

emo72 wrote: »

Also all my files are stored on 1 terabyte hard drives, which connect to the pi via USB. Then the pi is connected to a dac via USB. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Ah cool, so no pc required. how do you view files / select tracks etc? surely there's a device in the mix?

emo72

mattcullen wrote: »

Ah cool, so no pc required. how do you view files / select tracks etc? surely there's a device in the mix?

You put the rune audio app on your phone, tablet, laptop, and control it all from there.

mattcullen

emo72 wrote: »

You put the rune audio app on your phone, tablet, laptop, and control it all from there.

Sounds good, cheers for taking the time to reply.
SO, this do https://www.amazon.co.uk/Raspberry-Pi-Model-Quad-Motherboard/dp/B01CD5VC92

Any recommendations for a DAC?

My set up is an old technics amp and tannoy f1 mercury bookshelf speakers

emo72

yeah, that pi is fine. they'll all work in fairness.

DACs are all different prices i have an audiolab mdac. but have a look at hifihut.ie they are good lads.

mattcullen

emo72 wrote: »

yeah, that pi is fine. they'll all work in fairness.

DACs are all different prices i have an audiolab mdac. but have a look at hifihut.ie they are good lads.

Fair play, thanks again

mattcullen

By way of an update, got a gift of an unwanted Sonos Connect from someone, connected it to my amp and speakers. Playing Spotify premium through it sounds very good. Ripped a CD to FLAC and compared it against the spotify version and to my ears there’s no real difference. Seems a good option cause can now also add Sonos wireless speakers to other rooms but have the benefit of the hi-fi in the main room. Apparently you can also run the CD and turntable into the Connect to play them wirelessly through Sonos speakers elsewhere in the house but I don’t know if there’s much benefit in that.

I did notice that there is a very very slight distortion between songs using the Connect where there is none from the CD player whatsoever but you would need to be right up against the speaker for it to be audible or have the volume set very high on the amp. No idea why it’s there on the Connect and not the CD player.

Anyway - all in all -very happy with the Connect, so just thought I’d throw it out there as an option in case anyone else is in the same boat.