Steel shot.

Mach Two

Anyone know where cartridges can be got with steel shot. As hunters I think we should lead the way and show some initiative. Lead shot can't be good for the environment.

cookimonster

Work away, but remember to ensure your gun is proofed for steel and your chokes will have a different value compared to that of traditional lead.

Here's a good introduction to non-toxic shot:

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Non-Toxic-Shot-Buyers-Guide/532009.uts

grassroot1

Maybe you should read up on how lead shot performs in the human body before you decide to switch.

Gorgeousgeorge

But if i didnt give lead to the clay id never hit and always be behind!!!

meathstevie

Mach Two wrote: »

Anyone know where cartridges can be got with steel shot. As hunters I think we should lead the way and show some initiative. Lead shot can't be good for the environment.

You'll quickly change your mind after you used it a few times and realise it's effectiveness is brutal compared to lead shot. Lead shot isn't comparable to for example lead in petrol or paint or in small particles from an environmental point of view.

Bismuth is another alternative to lead shot but the price of those cartridges is mad, full bore center fire match grade rifle ammunition is cheap compared to it.

Half-cocked

Wait until you break a tooth chomping down on a steel shot......

Mach Two

grassroot1 wrote: »

Maybe you should read up on how lead shot performs in the human body before you decide to switch.

I did. That is why I suggested steel. Maybe not so much lead shot but lead in general. Is it that bad for shooting that no one will use it. Even for vermin control.

Walter Mittys Brother

Bad enough the antis trying to make our sports more expensive & difficult to pursue but it's worse when those involved in our sport are suggesting unnecessary restrictions/expenditure

solarwinds

Id be more worried about the lead pipes supplying drinking water than a few pellets spread over a wide area. By all means use steel if your barrels can take it but for me ill stick with the lead.

grassroot1

Mach Two wrote:

I did. That is why I suggested steel. Maybe not so much lead shot but lead in general. Is it that bad for shooting that no one will use it. Even for vermin control.

No I should have made my point better
While we have a good record on safety in general, accidents happen
If you are pelleted with lead it is inert and will heal and work it's way out of the body over time
If you are shot with steel it will rust so must be removed possibly by amputation
This all suposes being shot from distance at close range results are similar

Gorgeousgeorge

grassroot1 wrote: »

No I should have made my point better
While we have a good record on safety in general, accidents happen
If you are pelleted with lead it is inert and will heal and work it's way out of the body over time
If you are shot with steel it will rust so must be removed possibly by amputation
This all suposes being shot from distance at close range results are similar

When ya put it like that.

Come here though will lead not poison you?

solarwinds

Yep over a long period of time. But a lodged pellet of steel will do more damage quicker. Blood has a nasty habit of rusting stuff fairly quickly.

cavan shooter

Lead has been in the environment for thousands of years. Lead in petrol, lead pipes, lead in paint, lead was used in makeup. I think it's gas how we the shooters are the cause of all the poor birds dropping out of the sky....it's horse **** if you ask me, you wait for it the SCOVIs will be jumping on the need to ban lead and we will have to change our guns. Shotguns older than 2006 are not steel proof.

meathstevie

cavan shooter wrote: »

Lead has been in the environment for thousands of years. Lead in petrol, lead pipes, lead in paint, lead was used in makeup. I think it's gas how we the shooters are the cause of all the poor birds dropping out of the sky....it's horse **** if you ask me, you wait for it the SCOVIs will be jumping on the need to ban lead and we will have to change our guns. Shotguns older than 2006 are not steel proof.

Some older guns may be perfectly safe to shoot steel shot cartridges through them. Proofing is the only way to find out. I would quite happily subject for example a 3" 12g 1970's A5 to it because a replacement barrel will be easy enough sourced if it fails but I definitely wouldn't do it with a cherished heirloom.

Vizzy

meathstevie wrote: »

Some older guns may be perfectly safe to shoot steel shot cartridges through them. Proofing is the only way to find out. I would quite happily subject for example a 3" 12g 1970's A5 to it because a replacement barrel will be easy enough sourced if it fails but I definitely wouldn't do it with a cherished heirloom.

If lead was phased out I'd be f**ked

cavan shooter

And the SCOVIs are pushing the need for a proof house, I forgot to mention that. Folks be under no illusion the enemy is amongst us..........im not paranoid, the evidence is all over boards.

meathstevie

cavan shooter wrote: »

And the SCOVIs are pushing the need for a proof house, I forgot to mention that. Folks be under no illusion the enemy is amongst us..........im not paranoid, the evidence is all over boards.

Establishing a proof house is neither here nor there. The only thing those folks do is testing what's presented to them in accordance with CIP standards.

To the best of my knowledge it's even illegal to sell a civilian firearm in the CIP member states without it having been subjected to verifiable proof when it first came to market ( hence the identifiable stamps from the likes of Liege, Eibar, London, Birmingham and so on ...).

At least you know when you buy a new yoke and maintain it properly and fire correct ammo that your rifle bolt is not going to be recovered from the back of your skull and your shotgun is not going to take a hand off.

Currently Ireland is not a CIP member but the vast majority of firearms and a good amount of ammunition sold in Ireland would originate in CIP countries and have been proofed.

breakemall

cavan shooter wrote: »

Lead has been in the environment for thousands of years. Lead in petrol, lead pipes, lead in paint, lead was used in makeup. I think it's gas how we the shooters are the cause of all the poor birds dropping out of the sky....it's horse **** if you ask me, you wait for it the SCOVIs will be jumping on the need to ban lead and we will have to change our guns. Shotguns older than 2006 are not steel proof.

No one needs to jump on anything, it is already a done deal... https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105703870

And the offence will be to even have lead cartridges in your possession in "wet lands". While the current good weather is making most places dry, once it is within 300m of a stream/river, has water settling on it at any stage during the year or is a peat bog etc. then no lead shot.

breakemall

Vizzy wrote: »

If lead was phased out I'd be f**ked

And they have worked out that the cost to shooters of having to use lead substitute ammo and scrapping guns that cannot shoot steel is less than the value of the birds supposedly lost to ingestion of lead shot, so proof house or not we will all take a financial hit in the ban.

Not to mention that steel sh1t is only marginally better than useless at 30m...

meathstevie

I've said it before and I will again. If you want to make shooting more environmentally friendly a good start would be banning plastic wads and cartridge cases by the start of next pheasant season, definitely wads. Waxed paper and cardboard cases and fiber wads worked fine, no reason why they still shouldn't.

Emmersonn

Amazingly how we are all worried about lead shot in our wetlands but no one worries that most of us are drinking water which passes through lead pipes or asbestos pipes

grassroot1

meathstevie wrote:

I've said it before and I will again. If you want to make shooting more environmentally friendly a good start would be banning plastic wads and cartridge cases by the start of next pheasant season, definitely wads. Waxed paper and cardboard cases and fiber wads worked fine, no reason why they still shouldn't.

Steel needs plastic wads
On a side issue I don't see the problem with photodegradable wads
Any of course we should pick up our empties

Mach Two

grassroot1 wrote: »

Steel needs plastic wads
On a side issue I don't see the problem with photodegradable wads
Any of course we should pick up our empties

All most certainly going to be a big drive to move away from plastics in the environment. There is plastic everywhere. Huge improvement since the plastic bag tax. Organic plastic will probably take over from biodegradable plastic. Judging by what is happening in the state's there will probably be more of a move to steel shot. The comments on lead shot are interesting. The firearms industry has grown up around lead. I personally have never used steel shot. Maybe more research has to be done in steel shot or some other metal. Change is inevitable and is always happening.

meathstevie

Mach Two wrote: »

All most certainly going to be a big drive to move away from plastics in the environment. There is plastic everywhere. Huge improvement since the plastic bag tax. Organic plastic will probably take over from biodegradable plastic. Judging by what is happening in the state's there will probably be more of a move to steel shot. The comments on lead shot are interesting. The firearms industry has grown up around lead. I personally have never used steel shot. Maybe more research has to be done in steel shot or some other metal. Change is inevitable and is always happening.

There is an alternative to steel and lead that can be shot through older guns; bismuth. You want to remortgage the house if you go for a slab of cartridges.

Brontosaurus

There have been cases of Eagles in the States dying from eating left-behind game and vermin with lead shot in it.

It's rarely black and white, switching to steel shot probably wouldn't make a difference but making sure to dispose of vermin etc. properly makes a huge difference, as well as not using poisoned bait, knowing what species are protected by law etc.

Mach Two

Brontosaurus wrote: »

There have been cases of Eagles in the States dying from eating left-behind game and vermin with lead shot in it.

It's rarely black and white, switching to steel shot probably wouldn't make a difference but making sure to dispose of vermin etc. properly makes a huge difference, as well as not using poisoned bait, knowing what species are protected by law etc.

Is there any advantage in switching to steel shot so.

meathstevie

Mach Two wrote: »

Is there any advantage in switching to steel shot so.

Personally I reckon very little or none at all. If you look at the total of harmful substances generated by human activity and dumped into the environment on a daily basis I reckon lead shot doesn't even equate to a tiny fraction of a drop in the ocean.