Beef Open day

jfh

anyone make it to Beef2018
would have liked to have gone but too much on at the moment

Bellview

All breed societies of note are missing limo char angus. Icbf need to engage in a humble way as this standoff not good for beef...also shows lack of confidence of pedigree breeders in icbf

Angus2018

It was very good. Lots of stands and demonstrations for everything you can think of. The grass is lovely and green there somehow. Felt a bit put out coming home to my yellow looking fields.

They had a field with a lane up the middle that was reseeded and fenced into paddocks. Very expensive to do but it looked like it would pay off in the long run,.

yewtree

Bellview wrote: »

All breed societies of note are missing limo char angus. Icbf need to engage in a humble way as this standoff not good for beef...also shows lack of confidence of pedigree breeders in icbf

I read that in Agriland this morning. I thought it was very childish way to act.
If they have issues would they not be better going to the event and talking to farmers about it. At the end of the day breed societies are vested interest groups and shouldn't be allowed to decide the direction of a national breeding programme

kk.man

Was going to go but too much on. Was there much about beef cattle finishing and methods of same etc?

charolais0153

kk.man wrote: »

Was going to go but too much on. Was there much about beef cattle finishing and methods of same etc?

Not really.... Had a bit about farm infrastructure,grass10,education,better farmers,farmers journal stand and replacement indexes....not a word said about weanlings for export either....

Injuryprone

Angus2018 wrote: »

It was very good. Lots of stands and demonstrations for everything you can think of. The grass is lovely and green there somehow. Felt a bit put out coming home to my yellow looking fields.

They had a field with a lane up the middle that was reseeded and fenced into paddocks. Very expensive to do but it looked like it would pay off in the long run,.

Did I read on a board that they'll have to be utilising 12.75tDM/ha to make a return on the investment?

Grueller

yewtree wrote: »

I read that in Agriland this morning. I thought it was very childish way to act.
If they have issues would they not be better going to the event and talking to farmers about it. At the end of the day breed societies are vested interest groups and shouldn't be allowed to decide the direction of a national breeding programme

An ICBF board dominated by AI companies isn't a vested interest?

yewtree

Grueller wrote: »

An ICBF board dominated by AI companies isn't a vested interest?

ICBF are lead by science that's the difference, the methods behind gemomics/ebi are all published in scientific journals. look on their website they are transparent about what they are doing. The breed societies are only worried about stock been devalued they have no long term plan to breed cattle that are more profitable for commercial farmers.
The same arguments that beef societies are having now, were rolled out by the IHFA when EBI came out but the greater good was served by delivering an index the helped the ,majority of commercial farmers.

Grueller

yewtree wrote: »

ICBF are lead by science that's the difference, the methods behind gemomics/ebi are all published in scientific journals. look on their website they are transparent about what they are doing. The breed societies are only worried about stock been devalued they have no long term plan to breed cattle that are more profitable for commercial farmers.
The same arguments that beef societies are having now, were rolled out by the IHFA when EBI came out but the greater good was served by delivering an index the helped the ,majority of commercial farmers.

I was there yesterday and to be honest I would be a big believer in any science behind breeding. The problem I have with what is being done with beef at the moment is that it is being pushed down a narrow tunnel. Teagasc and ICBF are pushing dairy cross way too hard. The majority of information out there yesterday was about dairy cross. I feel that both of the organisations are marginalising beef at the altar of dairy expansion.

Angus2018

Injuryprone wrote: »

Did I read on a board that they'll have to be utilising 12.75tDM/ha to make a return on the investment?

It might be in the book they gave out but the cost of doing that field up was €25,000. I take everything with a pinch of salt from
grange since funding isn't a problem for them.

wrangler

Grueller wrote: »

I was there yesterday and to be honest I would be a big believer in any science behind breeding. The problem I have with what is being done with beef at the moment is that it is being pushed down a narrow tunnel. Teagasc and ICBF are pushing dairy cross way too hard. The majority of information out there yesterday was about dairy cross. I feel that both of the organisations are marginalising beef at the altar of dairy expansion.

We have to work with what's available or am I missing something.
Is there any other options available
Profits in beef is marginalising it 'at the altar of dairying'

charolais0153

Grueller wrote: »

I was there yesterday and to be honest I would be a big believer in any science behind breeding. The problem I have with what is being done with beef at the moment is that it is being pushed down a narrow tunnel. Teagasc and ICBF are pushing dairy cross way too hard. The majority of information out there yesterday was about dairy cross. I feel that both of the organisations are marginalising beef at the altar of dairy expansion.

Not as much that they are forcing dairy down your throat it's just that if a cow doesnt have a bag of milk lower than her ankles shes no good...
Interestingly enough, i done a bit of weighing on saturday last. One cow that has 5 stars and heaps of milk had a calf with adg of 1.32
Another cow has 2 stars,only 3 quarters and is an average/poor milker had a calf with adg of 1.32.....
At farmers journal stand,they had 6 heifers,5 good quality,suitable for breeding heifers and one other bad,light heifer by KYA.
The bad heifer had a 5 star rating ...the reason she was small was because of her genetics which made her small. If she was out of any other bull,she would have been bigger and suitable for breeding.....so how in the name of god does a calf with a poor adg and probably poor genetic merit because of her sire be 5 stars

Grueller

charolais0153 wrote: »

Not as much that they are forcing dairy down your throat it's just that if a cow doesnt have a bag of milk lower than her ankles shes no good...
Interestingly enough, i done a bit of weighing on saturday last. One cow that has 5 stars and heaps of milk had a calf with adg of 1.32
Another cow has 2 stars,only 3 quarters and is an average/poor milker had a calf with adg of 1.32.....
At farmers journal stand,they had 6 heifers,5 good quality,suitable for breeding heifers and one other bad,light heifer by KYA.
The bad heifer had a 5 star rating ...the reason she was small was because of her genetics which made her small. If she was out of any other bull,she would have been bigger and suitable for breeding.....so how in the name of god does a calf with a poor adg and probably poor genetic merit because of her sire be 5 stars

Exactly what I was trying to say but you have put it better than I did.

blue5000

charolais0153 wrote: »

Not as much that they are forcing dairy down your throat it's just that if a cow doesnt have a bag of milk lower than her ankles shes no good...
Interestingly enough, i done a bit of weighing on saturday last. One cow that has 5 stars and heaps of milk had a calf with adg of 1.32
Another cow has 2 stars,only 3 quarters and is an average/poor milker had a calf with adg of 1.32.....
At farmers journal stand,they had 6 heifers,5 good quality,suitable for breeding heifers and one other bad,light heifer by KYA.
The bad heifer had a 5 star rating ...the reason she was small was because of her genetics which made her small. If she was out of any other bull,she would have been bigger and suitable for breeding.....so how in the name of god does a calf with a poor adg and probably poor genetic merit because of her sire be 5 stars

The sire is only half the story.

Bitten & Hisses

I went yesterday, thought it was a great day. It’s easy to knock Teagasc and ICBF, but I personally found plenty of food for thought.
I know my grassland management could be better and I came away with at least a broad outline of how to go about it. That is, as soon as I complete GLAS and low input pasture.
I also found the guidance around calving down at 24 months interesting. I’ve stayed away from it to date, but I’m probably going to dip my toes in the water from next years breeding season.
Nobody’s shoving anything down anyone’s throat. I thought the guys on the IFJ/ICBF cow/heifer demo we’re at pains to point out that stars weren’t everything and for farmers to use all available information to make decisions. Nobody’s going to go home from an event like this tormenting themselves into implementing every last thing they saw, but if a few farmers make some sustainable improvements to their businesses, isn’t it a worthwhile event?

Who2

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

I went yesterday, thought it was a great day. It’s easy to knock Teagasc and ICBF, but I personally found plenty of food for thought.
I know my grassland management could be better and I came away with at least a broad outline of how to go about it. That is, as soon as I complete GLAS and low input pasture.
I also found the guidance around calving down at 24 months interesting. I’ve stayed away from it to date, but I’m probably going to dip my toes in the water from next years breeding season.
Nobody’s shoving anything down anyone’s throat. I thought the guys on the IFJ/ICBF cow/heifer demo we’re at pains to point out that stars weren’t everything and for farmers to use all available information to make decisions. Nobody’s going to go home from an event like this tormenting themselves into implementing every last thing they saw, but if a few farmers make some sustainable improvements to their businesses, isn’t it a worthwhile event?

I’ve spent the last few years going with calving at 24 months and my advice is leave it off until 30 months if you can (and I’ve just eaten my words). There is a few animals that will go on ok but there’s far too much messing with 24 months. Babysitting and molly coddling then after calving is the costly one, that never seems to be allowed for. Now before anyone starts there’s sweet f all out of sucklers and we should at least be able to enjoy looking at a decent animal. I’ve a mixed bag of everything here and I’m now just going to have what I like rather than worry about saving a fiver by calving them too small.

valtra2

Who2 wrote: »

I’ve spent the last few years going with calving at 24 months and my advice is leave it off until 30 months if you can (and I’ve just eaten my words). There is a few animals that will go on ok but there’s far too much messing with 24 months. Babysitting and molly coddling then after calving is the costly one, that never seems to be allowed for. Now before anyone starts there’s sweet f all out of sucklers and we should at least be able to enjoy looking at a decent animal. I’ve a mixed bag of everything here and I’m now just going to have what I like rather than worry about saving a fiver by calving them too small.

I calf all mine at 24 months. They don't get any special treatment. Adv cull weights are 700 to 800kg. Last year's heifers which called at 24 months had a calf weaning weight of over 400 kg at 10 months. One actually was over 500kg. Cows do not get meal. Sorry I lie they actually did this spring to stretch silage. They got a kg a day.

charolais0153

blue5000 wrote: »

[/B]

The sire is only half the story.

True but bigger variablity with sires

charolais0153

valtra2 wrote: »

I calf all mine at 24 months. They don't get any special treatment. Adv cull weights are 700 to 800kg. Last year's heifers which called at 24 months had a calf weaning weight of over 400 kg at 10 months. One actually was over 500kg. Cows do not get meal. Sorry I lie they actually did this spring to stretch silage. They got a kg a day.

1kg would increase performance but would reduce demand damn all

charolais0153

Who2 wrote: »

I’ve spent the last few years going with calving at 24 months and my advice is leave it off until 30 months if you can (and I’ve just eaten my words). There is a few animals that will go on ok but there’s far too much messing with 24 months. Babysitting and molly coddling then after calving is the costly one, that never seems to be allowed for. Now before anyone starts there’s sweet f all out of sucklers and we should at least be able to enjoy looking at a decent animal. I’ve a mixed bag of everything here and I’m now just going to have what I like rather than worry about saving a fiver by calving them too small.

Barely cycling amd harder to get incalf, eorse calf(usually) and need preferential traetment. Heifers need to be calved a month before main group of cows to give them a chance...very jard with 22 month heifers or thereabouts....anything calved in last 3 weeks of calving season usually doesmt last too long especially heifers

Angus2018

I calve mine at 24-26 months old with great success. Silage and meal for first housing, then out to grass with a fertility booster lick to trigger heats. They get 5 weeks with the bull then. Scanned in the autumn. Silage for winter, no meal, lick coming up to calving, thrown out to grass for 3 weeks to strengthen their legs and lower body fat, rehoused until calved, fed silage and meal week prior calving.

Put 10 to the bull last year, 8 held, 8 calved, 7 back with the bull. Culling one because of poor milk.

8 previous year, 7 held, 7 calved, 4 with the bull. Problem with calves being too big which caused issues.

3 previous year, 3 held, 3 still around today.

8 previous year, 8 held, 8 calved, 4 around today, culled 2 because of udder problems, one got laminitis and stopped coming in heat as a result.

Who2

Lads you aren’t picking up on it, why bother your arse, how much are you saving between the ones that get wrecked, the ones that go back in time and what extra they need in preferential treatment, I’d say there’s nothing in it. If you take a decent sized cow with no hardship, the extra few quid value as a cull and the ease of it all and there won’t be much in it.
Caltrain I think you need to get your scales calibrated

valtra2

charolais0153 wrote: »

1kg would increase performance but would reduce demand damn all

I did not run out of silage. It reduced demand enough for me.

valtra2

Who2 wrote: »

Lads you aren’t picking up on it, why bother your arse, how much are you saving between the ones that get wrecked, the ones that go back in time and what extra they need in preferential treatment, I’d say there’s nothing in it. If you take a decent sized cow with no hardship, the extra few quid value as a cull and the ease of it all and there won’t be much in it.
Caltrain I think you need to get your scales calibrated

Special treatment or good management?

bogman_bass

Who2 wrote: »

I’ve spent the last few years going with calving at 24 months and my advice is leave it off until 30 months if you can (and I’ve just eaten my words). There is a few animals that will go on ok but there’s far too much messing with 24 months. Babysitting and molly coddling then after calving is the costly one, that never seems to be allowed for. Now before anyone starts there’s sweet f all out of sucklers and we should at least be able to enjoy looking at a decent animal. I’ve a mixed bag of everything here and I’m now just going to have what I like rather than worry about saving a fiver by calving them too small.

Couldn’t disagree more. I’ve done both and 30 months is a mugs game. Bar any April callers that don’t make weight i’ll CAlve all mine at 24 months.

patsy_mccabe

Calving at 30 months mean you will have 2 different herds calving 6 months apart.

Bitten & Hisses

Who2 wrote: »

Lads you aren’t picking up on it, why bother your arse, how much are you saving between the ones that get wrecked, the ones that go back in time and what extra they need in preferential treatment, I’d say there’s nothing in it. If you take a decent sized cow with no hardship, the extra few quid value as a cull and the ease of it all and there won’t be much in it.
Caltrain I think you need to get your scales calibrated

I was of similar opinion to you until recently and listening to the talks and viewing the displays on Tuesday made up my mind that it’s worth a shot.
From what I see, the key is to manage and select the appropriate heifers and weight measurement is crucial in this. I’m too late to try it this year, but I’ll be trying a few in 2019 for 2020 calving. I got a scales under TAMS, so the only thing stopping me is my own inertia.
BTW, I’m not under the illusion that every single heifer will be a candidate for 24 month calving, I’m pretty sure that some will fall out and go in calf later.

Bellview

blue5000 wrote:

The sire is only half the story.

KYA though is a disgrace. He is poor and his only claim to fame is on dairy heifers. He will work on massive cows but on average cows he will only breed small cattle...and also with an attitude problem as they are generally nut jobs

blue5000

Bellview wrote: »

KYA though is a disgrace. He is poor and his only claim to fame is on dairy heifers. He will work on massive cows but on average cows he will only breed small cattle...and also with an attitude problem as they are generally nut jobs

Yes I agree, I was just trying to explain how one of his daughters has 5 stars.

Bellview

blue5000 wrote:

Yes I agree, I was just trying to explain how one of his daughters has 5 stars.

Sorry completely agree I had 4 of them last year and never again. I have about 15 straws in the pot that will finish up in dairy heifers
It's bulls like kya that make a complete joke out of the stars and genomic scheme as we will have nothing but rubbish after bulls like that.
A cynical person would say one ai organisation is driving the agenda to suit their commercial interest and feck the farmer at the end of the chain