Planinng Permission Required to move entrance to house??

hogie89

Hi All,

I am looking for advice as to whether I need to apply for planning permission to move the entrance to my house slightly.

Currently the entrance is offset to the left hand side of the land (road frontage 35m) and i would like to move the entrance to the center of my land.

The entrance leads out onto a local primary road which is less than 4m in width. The section of road outside my house is also a straight section of road with the nearest bend located 35m from my the proposed new entrance location.

Anyone have any experience with such a situation previously?

TomOnBoard

See this:

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056944101/1

hogie89

TomOnBoard wrote: »

See this:

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056944101/1

Thanks for Reply. I read that thread before posting but to be honest it just confused me. The thread speaks about options of widening an existing entrance or creating a new entrance and keeping the existing one.

I am looking to do neither of these options and instead move my existing entrance slightly, my existing entrance already has planning permission from when the house was built originally.

Gumbo

Typically, any alterations to a vehicle entrance required planning.

BryanF

Your moving an entrance - planning required.

When you do this prepare for any current regulation to Be applied

Including queries regarding existing waste treatment

harr

Friend built house over 20 years ago and last year looked for permission to change entrance and build pillars and small wall. As mentioned above all new regulations were applied to application.
He left it in the end and didn’t bother because it was more hassle than it was worth..

Peregrinus

The entrance to your house is the front door.

What you want to move is not the entrance to your house. It's the access - presumably, the vehicle access - from the public road to your land. Let's call it the gateway for short, even though there may be no actual gate in the opening.

As far as I can see, you can "move" the gateway to your land in either of two ways - by closing the present gateway and opening a new one at a different location, or by moving the existing gateposts slightly, so that the relocated gateway partly overlies where the existing gateway is. For these purposes, I don't think it matters which you will be doing.

The "formation, laying out or material widening of a means of access to a public road" is never an exempted development if the surfaced carriageway of the road is more than 4 metres wide. You say that in your case the carriageway is less than 4m wide. In that case, what you propose may be exempted if it falls under one of the classes of exempted development.

I think the most promising possibility is class 5 ("the construction, erection or alteration, within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway, railing or wooden fence or a wall of brick, stone, blocks with decorative finish, other concrete blocks or mass concrete"). It seems to me that what you're doing is either constructing a new gateway, or altering an existing gateway.

However there are a couple of limitations you need to be aware of.

Even though it comes within Class 5, the development will not be exempted if it is inconsistent with the original permission for your house. So check that the original position does not specify where the gateway is to be.

It will not be exempt if it "endangers public safety by reason of traffic hazard or obstruction of road users". What matters here is not whether you think it will endanger public safety, but whether the local authority thinks that. So talk to them.

It's not exempt if it involves any works actually on the roadway - e.g. the dishing of the kerb to provide vehicle access. (And note that, independently of planning permission, works on the roadway will require a licence from the local authority, and possibly from any utility provider if, e.g, gas, water mains, etc is affected.)

In short, this is probably exempt, but there are a couple of hazards that you could trip over, so you need to talk to the local authority and get their clearance.

Gumbo

Peregrinus wrote: »

The entrance to your house is the front door.

What you want to move is not the entrance to your house. It's the access - presumably, the vehicle access - from the public road to your land. Let's call it the gateway for short, even though there may be no actual gate in the opening.

As far as I can see, you can "move" the gateway to your land in either of two ways - by closing the present gateway and opening a new one at a different location, or by moving the existing gateposts slightly, so that the relocated gateway partly overlies where the existing gateway is. For these purposes, I don't think it matters which you will be doing.

The "formation, laying out or material widening of a means of access to a public road" is never an exempted development if the surfaced carriageway of the road is more than 4 metres wide. You say that in your case the carriageway is less than 4m wide. In that case, what you propose may be exempted if it falls under one of the classes of exempted development.

I think the most promising possibility is class 5 ("the construction, erection or alteration, within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway, railing or wooden fence or a wall of brick, stone, blocks with decorative finish, other concrete blocks or mass concrete"). It seems to me that what you're doing is either constructing a new gateway, or altering an existing gateway.

However there are a couple of limitations you need to be aware of.

Even though it comes within Class 5, the development will not be exempted if it is inconsistent with the original permission for your house. So check that the original position does not specify where the gateway is to be.

It will not be exempt if it "endangers public safety by reason of traffic hazard or obstruction of road users". What matters here is not whether you think it will endanger public safety, but whether the local authority thinks that. So talk to them.

It's not exempt if it involves any works actually on the roadway - e.g. the dishing of the kerb to provide vehicle access. (And note that, independently of planning permission, works on the roadway will require a licence from the local authority, and possibly from any utility provider if, e.g, gas, water mains, etc is affected.)

In short, this is probably exempt, but there are a couple of hazards that you could trip over, so you need to talk to the local authority and get their clearance.

Are you 100% on this?
The regulations you have quoted above are for structures to the front of the property, there is no exemption for alteration, moving or creating a vehicle entrance.

Peregrinus

kceire wrote: »

Are you 100% on this?
The regulations you have quoted above are for structures to the front of the property, there is no exemption for alteration, moving or creating a vehicle entrance.

Exempted development class 2 includes "the construction, erection or alteration . . . within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway . . .". That covers constructing or altering a gateway in your garden fence or garden wall. Subject to the qualifications that I have already noted, that can be an exempted development. I don't see any language there that would confine it to pedestrian gateways.

Opening or moving a vehicular gateway, though, nearly always requires work on public road as well, even if this is only the dishing of a footpath. This requires a local authority licence.

Gumbo

Peregrinus wrote: »

Exempted development class 2 includes "the construction, erection or alteration . . . within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway . . .". That covers constructing or altering a gateway in your garden fence or garden wall. Subject to the qualifications that I have already noted, that can be an exempted development. I don't see any language there that would confine it to pedestrian gateways.

Have you check the definition of gateway, is it pedestrian only. Vehicle entrances are classed differently. Here in Dublin, you cannot do any of the above to a vehicle entrance.

Also, can you confirm the Class. My Class 2 relates to chimney, oil tank etc (mine may be outdated?)
My Class 5 covers the gate, gateway etc

Peregrinus wrote: »

Opening or moving a vehicular gateway, though, nearly always requires work on public road as well, even if this is only the dishing of a footpath. This requires a local authority licence.

Not always the case, most new vehicular entrances can be done without touching the public path. You then apply to the City Council for dishing and they carry out those works for you. Larger jobs can do these themselves, but obviously requires lodgement of bonds etc

Edit : OP states the road is less than 4m wide. I missed that nugget of info, so this probably brings it into the exemption limits?

Peregrinus

Sorry, you're quite right; it is class 5.

"Gateway" isn't defined in the regulations; neither is "gate". The terms will have their ordinary meaning, which certainly includes a gate/gateway for vehicles.

As mentioned in the thread, the class 5 exemption doesn't apply if the road surface is more than 4 metres wide.

I can't account for the policy you describe in in Dublin. I don't see anything to support it in the regulations. There may be a by-law that applies, or the local government may take such a strong view of the "mustn't create a hazard for road users" and such a strong position regarding their own function in dishing the kerb, etc, as to make it difficult in practice to proceed without permission.

Gumbo

Peregrinus wrote: »

Sorry, you're quite right; it is class 5.

"Gateway" isn't defined in the regulations; neither is "gate". The terms will have their ordinary meaning, which certainly includes a gate/gateway for vehicles.

As mentioned in the thread, the class 5 exemption doesn't apply if the road surface is more than 4 metres wide.

I can't account for the policy you describe in in Dublin. I don't see anything to support it in the regulations. There may be a by-law that applies, or the local government may take such a strong view of the "mustn't create a hazard for road users" and such a strong position regarding their own function in dishing the kerb, etc, as to make it difficult in practice to proceed without permission.

Thanks.
Always learning, as interpretations can differ so much!