Is it racist to dislike the traveler community?

tomofson

I really dislike the traveler community and I dont like to be around them, I avoid them at all costs and cant sympathize with them whatsoever.

Am I racist for this?

This is due to years of bad experiences, I have had a few dozen bad experiences with this particular group who only make up less than 1% of the population, I cant get my head around how I can have so many bad experiences with such a small minority group.

Everyone else I know says the same thing about them, multiple bad experiences, sometimes of extreme violence plus bullying and intimidating.

How am I supposed to view these people in a positive light giving all of that?

murpho999

Travelers are not a race so no is the answer.

You could be prejudiced though.

DeanAustin

tomofson wrote: »

I really dislike the traveler community and I dont like to be around them, I avoid them at all costs and cant sympathize with them whatsoever.

Am I racist for this?

This is due to years of bad experiences, I have had a few dozen bad experiences with this particular group who only make up less than 1% of the population, I cant get my head around how I can have so many bad experiences with such a small minority group.

Everyone else I know says the same thing about then, multiple bad experiences, sometimes of extreme violence plus bullying and intimidating.

How am I supposed to view these people in a positive light giving all of that?

My attitude was similar to yours but my wife pointed out when I ranted about racists that I was just as bad.

Sadly she’s right. If I judge someone just because they’re a traveler I’m discriminating against them. I’m still struggling with it big time but, although most of my experiences have been negative, I can’t say all of them have been negative. Therefore to say that “I can’t stand travellers” is discriminatory.

shakeitoff

Nope. For instance, in America Irish students go to some towns every summer and destroy the places. It's fair that they paint us all with the same brush. It's then up for individuals to create a different impression. Same with travellers, the bad ones are very bad and create a lasting impression. I don't look at a traveller and despise them but I can be pretty sure what's coming when I see one. They aren't all bad though but majority are in my experience. I never thought this until I was on the LUAS one day and three young lads got on the carriage, they were being menacing when suddenly one of them jumped across a chair towards a young girl. It wasn't even the behaviour of townie scummers, it was a different type of intimidation. They have no role models. They haven't a chance. IMO, that is very patronising but best I can say about them as a community.

However, I heard some awful comments after that tragedy in Carrickmines a year or so back.

HogofHedges

There's somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 travellers in Ireland. You have not had experiences with them all.
What percentage of your bad experiences with all people would the few dozen bad experiences with travellers amount to?

RandomName2

murpho999 wrote: »

Travelers are not a race so no is the answer.

You could be prejudiced though.

Travelers say that they aren't ethnically Irish, but are in fact a distinct race. The EU, in its infinite wisdom, agrees with them.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

HogofHedges wrote: »

There's somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 travellers in Ireland. You have not had experiences with them all.
What percentage of your bad experiences with all people would the few dozen bad experiences with travellers amount to?

That is very easy for me to answer, as I have in over 70 years have had, thankfully, very few bad experiences with people in general. Of those I have had (including my house burgled, trespassing, theft, and damage to the local environment or property) over 75% would be directly proven as attributable to travellers. I'm sure there are decent honest travellers but, unfortunately, I have yet to come across any personally.

tomofson

HogofHedges wrote: »

There's somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 travellers in Ireland. You have not had experiences with them all.
What percentage of your bad experiences with all people would the few dozen bad experiences with travellers amount to?

I have only ever had violent negative experiences with travelers,

I think there is a lot more than 30,000 travelers, maybe 30,000 still on the road but way more when you include settled ones.

Your Face

Original.

gerrybbadd

Have to say, i've known a fair few travellers from various families down through the years. I've only ever had one bad experience, back when i was about 10 years of age.

For the most part, i've never had a problem and would even consider some of these lads my friend

clintondaly

The 2016 census in the Republic of Ireland reported the number of Irish Travellers as 30,987, up from 29,495 in 2011. In 2006 the number was 22,369. A further 1,700 to 2,000 were estimated to live in Northern Ireland.

tomofson

Your Face wrote: »

Original.

Just goes to show how many people think poorly of them then doesn't it?

shakeitoff

Yeah, people try to make these things worse then they are. I think I played football with a traveller kid before, I liked him, some parents might have been patronising towards him but not hostile. I'm sure he's a gouger now though.

How do we define racism? We have to compare it to something. I'm personally not in favour of an apartheid state or viewing travellers as a lower class of citizen, but I'll have no problem saying I wouldn't think twice before walking past a group of them. I personally don't give them much consideration btw. Unless they are being loud making a scene(often the case tbf) I wouldn't even notice them.

HogofHedges

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Have to say, i've known a fair few travellers from varios families down through the years. I've only ever had one bad experience, back when i was about 10 years of age.

For the most part, i've never had a problem and would even consider some of these lads my friend

same here tbh.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

_Brian

I feel the same as OP towards travellers, however, I feel the same towards settled people who make it their lot to sponge of the rest of us and are professionally unemployed.
I’ve lots of distain to go about.

I think it makes me more a snob than racist and I’m ok with that

tomofson

_Brian wrote: »

I feel the same as OP towards travellers, however, I feel the same towards settled people who make it their lot to sponge of the rest of us and are professionally unemployed.
I’ve lots of distain to go about.

I think it makes me more a snob than racist and I’m ok with that

Honestly I dont hate people like that because I dont fear violence from them, I do fear violence from the traveler community.

If you are in any way vulnerable or give off a vulnerable vibe the gypsies will be all over you like flies on ****e, they are predatory and seek out easy prey.

Petyr Baelish

HogofHedges wrote: »

There's somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 travellers in Ireland. You have not had experiences with them all.
What percentage of your bad experiences with all people would the few dozen bad experiences with travellers amount to?

Welcome to Boards and congratulations on your first post Mr Collins.

HogofHedges

Petyr Baelish wrote: »

Welcome to Boards and congratulations on your first post Mr Collins.

I have many faces Lord Baelish!

MFPM

murpho999 wrote: »

Travelers are not a race so no is the answer.

You could be prejudiced though.

Based on his post I think 'could' is a gross understatement.

Mutant z

Travellers are indigenous Irish so race doesn't come into its their less than reasonable behaviour that's the issue.

Your Face

tomofson wrote: »

Just goes to show how many people think poorly of them then doesn't it?

No.

No it doesn't.

Paulzx

I actually admire any race who can find a use for a slash hook at a funeral.


The rest of us bring mass cards

MFPM

tomofson wrote: »

I have only ever had violent negative experiences with travelers,

I think there is a lot more than 30,000 travelers, maybe 30,000 still on the road but way more when you include settled ones.

Perhaps do some research to aid your thinking.

The total number of usually resident Irish Travellers enumerated in April 2016 was 30,987 representing 0.7 per cent of the general population.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itd/

tomofson

MFPM wrote: »

Perhaps do some research to aid your thinking.



https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itd/

You don't even realize the less of them there is the more valid my points are.

MFPM

Paulzx wrote: »

I actually admire any race who can find a use for a slash hook at a funeral.


The rest of us bring mass cards

What 'race' are you and who is this 'us' you're posting about?

Hitman3000

tomofson wrote:

Am I racist for this?

No, just cautious.

MFPM

tomofson wrote: »

You don't even realize the less of them there is the more valid my points are.

You haven't made any 'points'. You posted about your alleged experience of some members of the travelling community. There's a traveller somewhere complaining about their experience of being abused and discriminated by a member of the settled community - what makes your experience more generally right than his/hers?

Secondly you disputed a point about the population numbers of travellers based on what you 'think' rather than facts so forgive me if I don't take too seriously.

ChikiChiki

A traveller plucked my little blue tractor from the garden in front of my eyes and threw it into the back of the van when i was about 3.

Safe to say I've been prejudiced since. Not a fan of the community. Im sure there are some good but far too many bad within.

Paulzx

MFPM wrote: »

What 'race' are you and who is this 'us' you're posting about?

OK,ok..........i'll rephrase.

I admire any "ethnic minority that can find a use for a slash hook at a funeral.



Hopefully that hits the required PC buzzwords.

tomofson

MFPM wrote: »

You haven't made any 'points'. You posted about your alleged experience of some members of the travelling community. There's a traveller somewhere complaining about their experience of being abused and discriminated by a member of the settled community - what makes your experience more generally right than his/hers?

Secondly you disputed a point about the population numbers of travellers based on what you 'think' rather than facts so forgive me if I don't take too seriously.

They are drastically over represented in most Irish peoples negative experiences, Even if they make up for just 10% of your negative experiences in life, they are over represented, do you not get it?

Tow

I have been robbed by them. I (along with two Guards) have caught them in the act of robbing a elderly relation. One traveler I knew personally and went to his wedding, later got 12 years for armed robbery. At least his wife did not have to put up with his beatings for a few years. I'ed put my feelings down to personal experience.

wexie

MFPM wrote: »

Perhaps do some research to aid your thinking.



https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8itd/

While I'm not going to get into an argument over how many or how few there are (don't know, don't care) I would like to wonder out loud quite how reliable those statistics are when it comes to travelers specifically given the high numbers of illiteracy and the seemingly prevalent attitude regarding any kind of official paperwork?

MFPM

tomofson wrote: »

They are drastically over represented in most Irish peoples negative experiences, Even if they make up for just 10% of your negative experiences in life, they are over represented, do you not get it?

There you go again...

They are drastically over represented in most Irish peoples negative experiences,

How do you know this and if it's true why is it the fault of Travellers alone?

Even if they make up for just 10% of your negative experiences in life, they are over represented, do you not get it?

This is precisely the point I'm making - why would't you focus on the people causing the other 90% of your negative experiences unless you have an existing prejudice which you clearly have.

Yer Da sells Avon

tomofson wrote: »

I really dislike the traveler community and I dont like to be around them, I avoid them at all costs and cant sympathize with them whatsoever.

Am I racist for this?

A more pertinent question might be: would you treat someone differently because they happen to be a traveller?

MFPM

wexie wrote: »

While I'm not going to get into an argument over how many or how few there are (don't know, don't care) I would like to wonder out loud quite how reliable those statistics are when it comes to travelers specifically given the high numbers of illiteracy and the seemingly prevalent attitude regarding any kind of official paperwork?

While I'm not going to get into an argument over how many or how few there are (don't know, don't care)

So you're not going to get into an argument yet you post this...

I would like to wonder out loud quite how reliable those statistics are when it comes to travelers specifically given the high numbers of illiteracy and the seemingly prevalent attitude regarding any kind of official paperwork?

The Census will never be 100% accurate - for a variety of reasons, I've done Census enumeration and you come across numerous people trying to avoid giving accurate information for a variety of reasons hence there is always going to be a margin of error.

Irish Guitarist

I'm guessing you're the same race as them so no.

Imagine black American criminals said they're an ethnic minority removed from law abiding black Americans and that they want to continue having no aspirations in life except for dealing drugs and committing drive by shootings because they come from a long line of drug dealers and murderers. Now imagine the American government gave in to these demands and allows them special ethnic status and encourages them to continue engaging in their rich culture of selling crack and gang warfare.

That would be similar to the fucking ridiculous situation we have here in which a number of families who have no interest in integrating into society are rewarded by being given permission to continue being a drain on society. You can't even criticise people who kill each other with slash hooks at social gatherings or that leave animals to die in the middle of the road without being called a 'racist' in this country.

Then anything bad that happens to these people is somehow the fault of 'the settled community'.

MFPM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I'm guessing you're the same race as them so no.

Imagine black American criminals said they're an ethnic minority removed from law abiding black Americans and that they want to continue having no aspirations in life except for dealing drugs and committing drive by shootings because they come from a long line of drug dealers and murderers. Now imagine the American government gave in to these demands and allows them special ethnic status and encourages them to continue engaging in their rich culture of selling crack and gang warfare.

That would be similar to the fucking ridiculous situation we have here in which a number of families who have no interest in integrating into society are rewarded by being given permission to continue being a drain on society. You can't even criticise people who kill each other with slash hooks at social gatherings or that leave animals to die in the middle of the road without being called a 'racist' in this country.

Then anything bad that happens to these people is somehow the fault of 'the settled community'.

Sweet Jesus...what a fallacious load of boll!x. If you want to make an analogy at least use a comparable one FFS....

steinbock123

37 posts and no-one has mentioned "culture" yet - must be a new record !!!

seanrambo87

Anybody familiar with the current case in Fermoy? A woman from a well known, ahem, Cork dynasty has parked an expensive mobile home in the middle of a green in an estate along with a caravan.

Said woman has been evicted twice now from previous accommodation because of antisocial behavior and is refusing to move until she is given a house???

You can can catch it on today's Neil prendiville podcast. The "lady" in question's attitude stinks and is appalling but not surprising.

Where I reside in the rebel county has a high proportion of them and I'm personally pissed off with the majority of them.

Mikenesson

I've had mixed experiences

Knew a few lads growing up who were ok to play handball with

The kids know lots of travellers through boxing ,never heard a bad word

corner of hells

Pretty impressive to find someone who dislikes 30,000 people.

If only you lived in pre war Germany , OP.

tomofson

corner of hells wrote: »

Pretty impressive to find someone who dislikes 30,000 people.

If only you lived in pre war Germany , OP.

Pretty impressive to find so many people deliberately blind to obvious realities, if only you lived in pre war germany

Anastasia_

I cannot stand people who take advantage or feel they are entitled to live above the law.

I work in the local community and every traveller I have come into contact with through that has taken advantage and/or felt they are above the law. I have had them drive over a barrier rather than pay a €2 entry fee which was going directly to the community. That €2 would have paid for the playground their children play in, or better yet, the land they decide they have some god given right to park their caravan on.

They are unreal. I dread ever having anything to do with them.

MFPM

Anastasia_ wrote: »

I cannot stand people who take advantage or feel they are entitled to live above the law.

I work in the local community and every traveller I have come into contact with through that has taken advantage and/or felt they are above the law. I have had them drive over a barrier rather than pay a €2 entry fee which was going directly to the community. That €2 would have paid for the playground their children play in, or better yet, the land they decide they have some god given right to park their caravan on.

They are unreal. I dread ever having anything to do with them.

I cannot stand people who take advantage or feel they are entitled to live above the law.

I know how you feel - I hate what the Hutch-Kinahan lads and their entourage are doing but I don't blame their entire community for their crimes. I take it you do because you wouldn't want us to think your are at best inconsistent or at worst prejudicial, would you?

tomofson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwFOUt5w_VM

MFPM

seanrambo87 wrote: »

Anybody familiar with the current case in Fermoy? A woman from a well known, ahem, Cork dynasty has parked an expensive mobile home in the middle of a green in an estate along with a caravan.

Said woman has been evicted twice now from previous accommodation because of antisocial behavior and is refusing to move until she is given a house???

You can can catch it on today's Neil prendiville podcast. The "lady" in question's attitude stinks and is appalling but not surprising.

Where I reside in the rebel county has a high proportion of them and I'm personally pissed off with the majority of them.

Thanks for the information about this one person, is there a point you wish to make?

I do volunteer work teaching English to Travelers in our community. I can't stand their culture. I have no issue with them as people... but any of them who encourage living traditional traveler "values"/practices, and no... fck that.

You can dislike their culture and behavior without being racist. Just treat them as individuals. I have a number of traveler students who are trying to put their past behind them, acquire the skills to live in the modern world, and i have nothing but respect for them. The remainder who persist with all the negative behavior that is more suited to the 1600s... meh.

jimgoose

My "default setting" would be to avoid and/or mistrust travelers, so I couldn't in all fairness disagree with you, OP.

MFPM

tomofson wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwFOUt5w_VM

Classic sign that you've run out of anything to say....finding it difficult to have your simplistic moronic 'arguments' challenged?

Larbre34

The improvement of the image and community engagement of the traveller community can only be addressed from within the traveller community itself.

I must say I resent the granting of ethnic status when no such distinction really exists, just to achieve a positive discrimination. I resent the burning up of tax payers money on accommodation sites and house purchases only to have the premises stripped of materials and burned. I resent that my farming relatives live in fear of traveller gangs from within their own communities repeatedly stealing and vandalising their premises so as to affect their livlihoods and peace of mind and make insurance impossible. I resent my wife and kids being put at risk by sulky racing on public roads, seemingly with impunity, and the abuse of animals therein.

In context, if a couple of brothers of mine were causing trouble and fear in my community and preying on the vulnerable, theyd get their ar5e kicked so hard by me they'd have to sleep standing up for the rest of their days. I resent the fact the traveller representatives blame everyone else for their troubles and dont seek to get their own houses in order.

In the context of the OP, I dont know any travellers to personally like or dislike, but until i stop reading in the news about the damage being caused to communities by some of their number, i will dislike them.