Winter feed - silage ?

grayh0und

Another newbie question. Thanks in advance!

Was wondering how often or if people feed sheep bales of silage over the winter? I suppose it's more intensive than opening a bag of nuts so this is a downside. Size of bales would be a problem without a tractor too.

Follow up is there a special type of grass that you can bale or does usual growth that we feed sheep over summer suit?

wrangler

grayh0und wrote: »

Another newbie question. Thanks in advance!

Was wondering how often or if people feed sheep bales of silage over the winter? I suppose it's more intensive than opening a bag of nuts so this is a downside. Size of bales would be a problem without a tractor too.

Follow up is there a special type of grass that you can bale or does usual growth that we feed sheep over summer suit?

We feed straw and meal here, we find it very clean and convenient. Any way you asked about silage so silage for sheep is ordinary grass alright but properly wilted and properly sealed, some farmers put extra wraps on round bales for the sheep. when feeding it'necessary to feed it quickly as silage can secondary ferment, Having a bale open for a week isn't good, some funguses on silage can cause abortion so grass has to be clean.

In short silage for sheep needs a bit more attention to detail

charolais0153

grayh0und wrote: »

Another newbie question. Thanks in advance!

Was wondering how often or if people feed sheep bales of silage over the winter? I suppose it's more intensive than opening a bag of nuts so this is a downside. Size of bales would be a problem without a tractor too.

Follow up is there a special type of grass that you can bale or does usual growth that we feed sheep over summer suit?

If you have no tractor. Hay/straw and meal is the best

Green farmer

Feed chopped silage here, 1 bale a day for every 125 ish ewes, depending on the size sheep you run. Bit of waste though, thinking about not chopping it, but don’t want to restrict the amount they eat either as it keeps them in good condition over the winter.

Siamsa Sessions

I think the recommendation is fresh silage after two days for sheep. After that it starts to go a bit mouldy and they won't eat it (and it might kill them as Wrangler said!). Have given them three-day-old silage before with no problems though.

We used square bales of hay last year before running out. Got some excellent advice from Wrangler on this forum and we switched to an all-concentrate diet (that is, all meal plus a little hay/straw/silage for roughage to prevent acidosis). The only downside is having to feed them twice, or three times a day coming near the end, but it worked out cheaper for us than buying in silage or trying to bring hay into an awkward shed.

A small tractor with a spike on the back would be able to lift in round bales of hay or straw so you'd have that option then too.

wrangler

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I think the recommendation is fresh silage after two days for sheep. After that it starts to go a bit mouldy and they won't eat it (and it might kill them as Wrangler said!). Have given them three-day-old silage before with no problems though.

We used square bales of hay last year before running out. Got some excellent advice from Wrangler on this forum and we switched to an all-concentrate diet (that is, all meal plus a little hay/straw/silage for roughage to prevent acidosis). The only downside is having to feed them twice, or three times a day coming near the end, but it worked out cheaper for us than buying in silage or trying to bring hay into an awkward shed.

A small tractor with a spike on the back would be able to lift in round bales of hay or straw so you'd have that option then too.

Glad it worked out for you, some that I recommend the system too sicken them first, it just takes a little care at the start.
It works great here and we would be slow to have the smell of silage near the house ever again or need to fork silage either

Siamsa Sessions

Danger with buying in bales of silage is the unknown quality. Even if only 1 in 10 is a bit off, it’s an extra cost and might damage the ewe’s health.

At least with hay or straw, you know the ewes will get something from it and it won’t cause them to abort (or die).

I’m no Teagasc advisor but this is the fail-safe option for us as small part-timers

grayh0und

All great advice thanks. Have no tractor so silage really isn't going to be an option anyway, but sounds like there are quite a few other downsides.

So should be able to feed less ration if we're supplementing with hay or straw?

Do you have your sheep housed over winter? We bring ours into the yard to feed the ration and then send out again. Would this work with hay or are they slower eating it?

wrangler

grayh0und wrote: »

All great advice thanks. Have no tractor so silage really isn't going to be an option anyway, but sounds like there are quite a few other downsides.

So should be able to feed less ration if we're supplementing with hay or straw?

Do you have your sheep housed over winter? We bring ours into the yard to feed the ration and then send out again. Would this work with hay or are they slower eating it?

Yea it works better indoors alright, but if they have some grass and enough meals I'm sure they will be alright outdoors too.

Siamsa Sessions

There’s a table that shows much much energy ewes needs from around 10 weeks pre-lambing to lambing itself and from there you can work out how much meal and hay/straw to give them. It’s in a report published by UK equivalent of Teagasc. I’ll find it later and post here.

With that table (and Wrangler’s firsthand advice) we worked out roughly how much to feed them last winter.

It’s only a guide thou and you should review how the feeding plan is going after a week or two

Siamsa Sessions

The nutrition table is on p.6 and the step-by-step calculations start on p.16

http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/BRP-Improving-ewe-nutrition-manual-12-050416.pdf

grayh0und

brilliant, thanks

Willfarman

I honestly believe there’s no twist in ewes if you can’t outwinter them.

charolais0153

Willfarman wrote: »

I honestly believe there’s no twist in ewes if you can’t outwinter them.

Idk. What does a shed cost to hold 100 ewes.
?Over 25 years it wont look to bad id say

Willfarman

Bedding + feeding + the overheads. + the extra vetinary costs. Doctors differ and patients die as they say!

J.O. Farmer

Willfarman wrote: »

Doctors differ and patients die as they say!

And regardless of doctors, vets, farmers and animal rights activists being 100% in agreement sheep die.

It depends on your stocking rate, land type, breed, system and probably a load of other factors which is the correct approach.

wrangler

Willfarman wrote: »

Bedding + feeding + the overheads. + the extra vetinary costs. Doctors differ and patients die as they say!

Land here wouldn't tolerate being stocked over the winter, I used to out winter 2 ewes/acre here when I had sucklers but it meant that the cattle were left in longer in the spring.
I got to rent out some of my sheds this year because a neighbour thought he could out winter his sheep too, but he learnt
Having it stripped for three months give great grass to let lambed ewes out on in a normal year

Willfarman

I get a run here on neighboring land. I think if I had to put them in the shed for a prolonged period I’d have as much money out of a lot less sheep.. I think this is the flaw in all sheep systems. IMO they compliment a beef or tillage system.

charolais0153

Willfarman wrote: »

I get a run here on neighboring land. I think if I had to put them in the shed for a prolonged period I’d have as much money out of a lot less sheep.. I think this is the flaw in all sheep systems. IMO they compliment a beef or tillage system.

Id sooner keep all cattle than all sheep. Find it hard enough keep grass in front of sheep in shoulders of year with only 7 ewes/ha. Beef and sheep are only job.
Not everybody has good neighbours:(

wrangler

charolais0153 wrote: »

Id sooner keep all cattle than all sheep. Find it hard enough keep grass in front of sheep in shoulders of year with only 7 ewes/ha. Beef and sheep are only job.
Not everybody has good neighbours:(

Cattle are a rip off if you have heavy land with all these wet summers and long winters, too many times I saw them destroying land on the sheep
We'd all outwinter if neighbours would provide the land.... there wouldn't be a lot of land round here fenced for sheep even if farmers were foolish enough to let sheep into it for the winter.

Willfarman

There are are a lot of advantages of mixed dry stock farming rangler. Grass management, soil management, cash flow . And it works both ways for both enterprises here. Winter grass and excersize suits pregnant sheep very well. Its very costly and laborious to replicate it indoors.

wrangler

Willfarman wrote: »

There are are a lot of advantages of mixed dry stock farming rangler. Grass management, soil management, cash flow . And it works both ways for both enterprises here. Winter grass and excersize suits pregnant sheep very well. Its very costly and laborious to replicate it indoors.

Always seem to have done better here since i got rid of the cattle, Motorway construction ploughing through the farm was too disruptive and we got rid with the intention of going back

Willfarman

I increased sheep numbers and cut back cattle a few years back. It done nothing for my bottom line but make me very busy in winter and spring and put me on first name term with the knackery. The little twist from a ewe can be easily eroded if you move away from a grass system.

wrangler

Willfarman wrote: »

I increased sheep numbers and cut back cattle a few years back. It done nothing for my bottom line but make me very busy in winter and spring and put me on first name term with the knackery. The little twist from a ewe can be easily eroded if you move away from a grass system.

As you say doctors differ,
Glad to be away from the most of it now.

Ard_MC

With the weather forecast for the next wk, any point in spreadin fert for a 2nd cut or is it a waste of time?