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Meath team of 80s/90s would give Dubs a game now !

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    Sonny, I loved that Dublin team.

    But they are miles off this team imo. The messing with Redmond in 95 not taking frees etc would never happen now.

    Of the forwards IMO only Dessie Farrel would get in.

    Both Fenton and MDMA would win the midfield battle.

    Cluxton is better. Gerry Hargan would make it IMO.
    Cooper is better than Kennedy, faster better going forward.
    D Rock and his Dad, who knows

    Taking this Dublin team 2013 onwards as thats Gavin's team with his U21's in it so kind of less some of the 2011 that fell away quickly
    Dias, Quinn, Cullen, Henry, Brennan (ish), Fennal, Barry Cahill, Kevin Nolan

    They are a far better managed team. I think Gavin carries the scars of that team from his playing days.

    They manage momentum and finish with very strong teams. This was the undoing of Kerry in 2011 and even more so in 2013

    I think to his credit Boylan was a fantastic manager, he knew the importance of the "championship quarter"
    However I think Gavin's team would be in a very strong position when that Meath team stuck, that purple patch late in the second half.

    It would be a great game, impossible to ever have though, we'd never know who from that Meath team would survive the training required for football now versus then.


    Things I loved about that Meath team was their never say die attitude alright, and Geraghty, he was class.

    They certainly wouldn't sit down, I just wonder would they have the mobility for this team.

    IMO a far inferior Dublin team put it up them and in the period 86-96 I think Dublin have 5 Leinster championships .

    4 Similarities between Meath 80s and current Dublin team


    1st Similarity

    Originally Posted by Stoner
    Also plenty of that team (1986) Mick Lyons, O'Rourke were playing in the 1970's and didn't get a look in versus the Kerry and Dublin team of that era


    Again you could say the same thing about the current Dublin team. Cluxton McMahon Sullivan McAuley Connolly Flynn A Brogan B Brogan were all playing in the 00s and didnt get a look in versus the kerry Tyrone teams of that era.

    2nd Similarity

    Originally Posted by Stoner
    I'm pretty sure Kerry popped in a few goals on Mick Lyons in 1986, at that stage he was playing intercounty football for around for 6 or 7 years.

    Im pretty sure Meath popped in 5 goals on Stephen Cluxton in 2010 at that stage he was playing football for around 6 or 7 years.

    3rd Similarity

    Originally Posted by Stoner

    I'm pretty sure Kerry popped in a few goals on Mick Lyons in 1986, at that stage he was playing intercounty football for around for 6 or 7 years.

    Again snap it the very same for the current Dublin team many of them were around before 2011.

    When Meath hammered Dublin by 10 points in 2010, Dublins worst lose in leinster in generations Cluxton, McMahon, Carroll, Fitzimons, Brennan, Cullen , Flynn , A Brogan, B Brogan, O Gara, Macauley, McManamon were all playing when Meath popped in 5 goals.

    And when kerry defeated Dublin by a record 17 points ( Dublin worst defeat ever) in 2009 Cluxton, Cullin, Flynn, Connolly, B Brogan, A Brogan , O Sullivan, were all playing that day.


    4th Similarity

    Orgianally Posted by Stoner
    They fact is that a good few of that team, O'Rourke, Lyons, McEntee were around for good Dublin , Offally and Kerry teams. It took them until 86 to win a provincial title. They started in the 1970's. Although lads like Flynn and Stafford started in the 80's



    The fact is that good few of the Dublin team in this era, Cluxton. Flynn, B brogan, A Brogan, Sullivan were around for good Kerry , Tyrone and Armagh teams. It took them until 2011 to win an All Ireland. They started in the 00's. Although lads like Fenton and Mannion started in this decade.



    So many of the factos that are negative for Meath team in 80s , r the very negative things you can say about the current Dublin team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    Sonny, I loved that Dublin team.

    But they are miles off this team imo. The messing with Redmond in 95 not taking frees etc would never happen now.

    Of the forwards IMO only Dessie Farrel would get in.

    Both Fenton and MDMA would win the midfield battle.

    Cluxton is better. Gerry Hargan would make it IMO.
    Cooper is better than Kennedy, faster better going forward.
    D Rock and his Dad, who knows

    Taking this Dublin team 2013 onwards as thats Gavin's team with his U21's in it so kind of less some of the 2011 that fell away quickly
    Dias, Quinn, Cullen, Henry, Brennan (ish), Fennal, Barry Cahill, Kevin Nolan

    They are a far better managed team. I think Gavin carries the scars of that team from his playing days.

    They manage momentum and finish with very strong teams. This was the undoing of Kerry in 2011 and even more so in 2013

    I think to his credit Boylan was a fantastic manager, he knew the importance of the "championship quarter"
    However I think Gavin's team would be in a very strong position when that Meath team stuck, that purple patch late in the second half.

    It would be a great game, impossible to ever have though, we'd never know who from that Meath team would survive the training required for football now versus then.


    Things I loved about that Meath team was their never say die attitude alright, and Geraghty, he was class.

    They certainly wouldn't sit down, I just wonder would they have the mobility for this team.

    IMO a far inferior Dublin team put it up them and in the period 86-96 I think Dublin have 5 Leinster championships .

    Ok , I think we are going around in circles. I am just repeating myself. If I put simply the debate we are having is a interesting one, but I think there is a flaw in ur arguement, which I K eep mentioning all the time, but you keep ignoring all the time Stoner.

    You are pretty much saying that if Kerry are not strong, teams that win an All Ireland are more handier All Irelands , then when Kerry are strong. That if kerry are not strong it lessens a teams greatness. The problem with that is it means Kerry poorest decades were in 60s 90s and this decade. That means Galway and kerry teams of 60s, Meath ( late 80s and 90s), Down, Galway Derry, Donegal, Cork won handier All Irelands ( and so did Cavan in 47 52 and Mayo in early 50s as kerry were in transition in that period and only emerged back in 53 ). These are some of the great teams.

    But you then have to add the current Dublin team to the list. And say they have won handier All Irelands. I have brought that up so many times, but you have ignored that point completlly.

    I dont agree, its doesnt matter how strong kerry are in this decade, this current Dublin team are one of the greatest teams ever. But if you think Meath 80s and 90s Galway Down Cork in 90s and Galway in 60s won handier All Ireland when kerry where not strong you have then have to agree Dublin currently have won handier as kerry are not strong. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot make an exception for this Dublin team, because you are a Dub and they are ur team. You are ignoring Dublin because they are your county.

    I know you include 1983. But this current team is Dublin greatest you are not going to rubbish Dublins greatest team , 83 is not as memorable as say 16 or 2017. Thats the flaw in your arguement. You talk about teams winning handier All Irelands when kerry are weaker, and then ignore completely the point that the current Dublin have played in era where kerry have not being special or great.


    I know Kerry supporter might say handier All Irelands were won in 80s and 90s when Kerry weak. Firslty that is incredibly arrogant for them to say. that. Yes Kerry are top football county in Ireland, the Brazil of football. They have prodcued more great player and teams then any county by a metric mile. But it would be like saying any team that won World Cup between 70 and 94 when Brazil were weak, won handier world Cups. That the Germany 74, Holland runners up in 74 78, Italy 82, Maradonas Argentina in 86 and Germany in 90 won handier World Cups, I have never heard anyone say that. When liverpool and Forest won 5 European cups in 7 years , Real Madrid Juventus Bayern Munich AC Milan Bareclona were all weak, But I have never heard anyone say Pool and forest won handy European cups.


    And when a kerry person tell s Dub that handier All Irelands were won in 80s and 90s when Kerry r weak. There playing the cute kerry persona. What they are really saying and what they mean is Dublin have won handy All Irelands in this decade because kerry are weak currently. And this will be said by Kerry supporters in 2020s if kerry come roaring back in 2020s with All Irelands they will say ahhh, Dublin won handy All Irelands because we were weaker between 11 and 2018.

    I dont agree with this theory whatsoever.It doesnt matter how strong or weak kerry are this is a great great great Dublin team, one of thr greatest ever. Why ? 5 Sams and a three in a row, equals = All time greatness. But also Meath team 87 88 Galway 64 65 66 Down 60 61 Down 91 and 94 and Galway 98 01 are all special teams also. Kerry are some football county, but they dont have exclusive rights to greatness, greatness comes in difference sizes and forms.

    And before anyone says this is a strong kerry era I have written extensively to explain why it isnt. I cannot keep repeating so that is my final word on the matter I will just leave a few stats to back up my. I enjoyed our debate Stoner, it was good one, but I need to stop going down memory lane, it annoys to many people and its to much of nostalgia trip I need to talk more about current times more. So my next message is about Dublin team in late 80s and ealry 90s and I will leave it that.

    1920s: 3 for Kerry ( 1924, 1926, 1929)
    1930s: 5 for Kerry (1930-31-32-37-39)
    1940s: 3 for Kerry (1940-41-46)
    1950s: 3 for Kerry (1953-55-59)
    1960s: 1 for Kerry (1969)
    1970s: 4 for Kerry (1970-75-78-79)
    1980s: 5 for Kerry (1980-81-84-85-86)
    1990s: 1 for Kerry ( 1997)
    2000s: 5 for Kerry (2000-04-06-07-09)
    2010s: 1 for Kerry ( 2014)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote: »
    Sonny, I loved that Dublin team.

    But they are miles off this team imo. The messing with Redmond in 95 not taking frees etc would never happen now.

    Of the forwards IMO only Dessie Farrel would get in.

    Both Fenton and MDMA would win the midfield battle.

    Cluxton is better. Gerry Hargan would make it IMO.
    Cooper is better than Kennedy, faster better going forward.
    D Rock and his Dad, who knows

    Taking this Dublin team 2013 onwards as thats Gavin's team with his U21's in it so kind of less some of the 2011 that fell away quickly
    Dias, Quinn, Cullen, Henry, Brennan (ish), Fennal, Barry Cahill, Kevin Nolan

    They are a far better managed team. I think Gavin carries the scars of that team from his playing days.

    They manage momentum and finish with very strong teams. This was the undoing of Kerry in 2011 and even more so in 2013

    I think to his credit Boylan was a fantastic manager, he knew the importance of the "championship quarter"
    However I think Gavin's team would be in a very strong position when that Meath team stuck, that purple patch late in the second half.

    It would be a great game, impossible to ever have though, we'd never know who from that Meath team would survive the training required for football now versus then.


    Things I loved about that Meath team was their never say die attitude alright, and Geraghty, he was class.

    They certainly wouldn't sit down, I just wonder would they have the mobility for this team.

    IMO a far inferior Dublin team put it up them and in the period 86-96 I think Dublin have 5 Leinster championships .

    Firstly Meath victory over kerry in 01 was not just defeat it was record defeat never being done before. It was incredbile, but Meath of course nver got the credit beating a great kerry team with players like Maurice Fizgerald , Seamus Moyihan, Dara OSe by 15 points is a great achievement for any county.


    Regards that Dublin team it was very good team, John O Leary was the best goalkeeper in Ireland after Offlays Martin Furlong retired in early. 80s., Gerry Hargan was one of the best full backs in Ireland only Lyons was better in the 80s , and for me the best Dublin full back of the last 30 years, better then Christie and McConnell was Hargan. In the forwards Duff McNally and Vinny Murphy all had a swagger and were serious qualiy forwards at their peak.The best though was Barney Rock. Dean is a top class player, but Barney was a great player. If you asked me the 3 greatest Dublin forwards of the last 45 years were Jimmy keaveny, Bernard Brogan and Barney Rock. It took Dean a while to adapt. He is the best freetaker in the country at the moment, him and Cillian O Connor. But Barney was the best freetaker in Ireland when he started to play for Dublin from the very beginning.


    But yes the current Dublin team is a greater team. Players like Cluxton, McMahon, Mcarthy, Fenton, Flynn, Connolly B Brogan are some of the greatest player ever to play for Dublin ( and Callaghan will also become a great ) and are one of the greatest teams of all time, win a 4th title in a row, they wud be the undisaputed second best ever and win 5 in a row, the undisputed greatest ever. This Dublin team is the best team of the last 35 years and defo in the top 3 or 4 ever in my book.


    But that was really good Dublin team and if Boylan did leave in 1985 and he had decided he was going to leave until the players his mind. That Meath team could have broken up, fell away, like the loais team did after 1986 and Dublin would have won every leinster from 1983 to 1996, easily, and even Offaly and kildare probaly wouldnt have beaten them in 97 or 98. Dublin could have won every title in the 90s also. No Meath 87 88, Dublin would have won definatly at least 13 plus leinsters in a row and probaly more and at least 2 All Irelands and probaly more.


    The one area you left out which surprised me was probaly one of the best half back line of modern times, Curran Barr Heery. I actually think that line is as good as Mcarthy Brennan/Sullivan Small/Mccaffrey.


    Paul Curran is one the best number 5 wing back of the last 30 years, Mcarthy is a better all round player, but Paul Curran at his peak was the perfect number 5. Mcarthy is one of the Dublin greats. Barr was a seriously good centre back. Better then Brennan, and while Sullivan is very good defender, Barr attacking ablilty would have him higher rated in my book. Mccaffrey if he can keep improving definsively could become one the greatest number 7 ever and is a special talent. And Small is a quality player. Mccaffrey would be better then Heery, I would rate Heery as good if not better then Small. Heery was a tough as nails, he took no prisoners but he was a quality player, he had a great engine and a brillant defender, stuck like glue to his marker.


    Overall the half back Line Curran Barr Heery was one the first modern half back lines, in that it had attacking wing backs that raided up the field. It has lovely balance to it like all great half back lines eg Harte, Gormley and Jordan and Finnerty, Keady and McInlnery. Curran was the classy attacking wing back. Barr could defend be tough when he wanted to be, but also attacked at ease , and Heery was everything you want in a defender, no messing, hard, but also could attack like a wing forward.


    Overall the best Dublin half back line of the last 40 years in my book. Thats just a personal choice, I thinks its a very underated half back line. While Mcarthy is a better player then all of them and Mccaffrey could become a truly great number 7 up their with Martin O Connell, there was a lovely balance to that Curran, Barr Heery half back line. I always felt watching them they made that Dublin team tick. And I think they did have a bad day at the Office v Donegal in 92 final, where they attacked and attacked all year long that year, they were to much focussed on attacking in 92. And Donegal and particularly the McHugh brothers took advantage of that in 92 final and thats where Donegal won that All Ireland. But when they got the balance between defence and attack, they were as good a half back Line I have seen . As I said there was lovely balance to that Dublin half back line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    Stoner wrote:
    They fact is that a good few of that team, O'Rourke, Lyons, McEntee were around for good Dublin , Offally and Kerry teams. It took them until 86 to win a provincial title. They started in the 1970's. Although lads like Flynn and Stafford started in the 80's

    But you could say that stoner the vast majority of teams in any sport. A group of players are in the wilderness winning nothing have bad loses and then a charismatic messianic manager appears on the scene and delivers sucess for a group of players who were not sucessful. That basically is the story of every sports film made in America in hollywood on a sporting team in baseball American football. And in the gaa there are so many examples of great teams having bad experiences and defeats before they r suceed. That having poor defeats and loses before a team is sucessful shouldnt lessen their greatness afterwards eg
    Galway 87 88 This is the greatest Galway team ever and the team of the 80s yet it had very bad defeats in 83 84 85 and 86 before Cooney Hayes and co turned things around

    Donegal 2012 Donegal had some bad defeats and loses before McGuiness turned them around

    Kerry 04 06 07 09 Kerry had some very bad defeat and loses to Meath in 01 Armagh 02 Tyrone 03 with D O Se T O Se Cooper before they turned things around again under Jack O Connor
    Tipperary 89 91 Tipp had some bad loses in 84 85 and 85 before they turned things around in 89
    Tippearey 01 Had some dreadful defeats to Clare before they turned things around in early 00s.
    Clare hurlers 95 97 Daly and Clare greats had record defeats before their breakthrough in 95, a record defeat to Tippearey in early 90s stands out.

    And yes the two greatest Dublin teams two of the greatest teams ever were around for good Offaly and Cork teams in early 70s and good Kerry Armagh and Tyrone teams in late 00s. It took til 74 about 7 or 9 years until keaveney won a provincial title. Cullen and keaveny started in the 60s.

    Dublin 74 76 77. Before 74 Dublin had their worst period ever. Loses to kildare and longford in early 70s, prior to 74 Dublin were a lower div 2 team at best and hadnt won a provincial title in 11 years. Players like Cullen Keaveney Doherty played with Dublin in late 60s and 70s and Dublin had some dreadful loses in that period, their worst period in Dublin football since 1900. Then Heffernan came on the scene and changed the face of Gaelic football.
    So actually the 1970s Dublin team had a very similar path to sucess as Meath teams of 80s. Both had dreadful defeats, both were in the wilderness for years and both were save by two of the greatest managers of all time eg Heffernan and Boylan.

    Dublin 11 to 18 Again so many of this all time great Dublin team had very poor results in late 00s. When Meath defeated Dublin by record 5 goals in 10 and kerry defeated by record 17 points in 09 Cluxton McMahon Sullivan Macauley Connolly Flynn A Brogan B Brogan and McMemanin were all playing. Again another example of a team having bad defeats at the start and turning things around.

    Anyway Stoner thats my last message on the matter. I have enjoyed the debate its being a good one. I respect what u say but I just wholeheartedly disagree that kerry being weaker means teams wins easier All Ireland their greatness is somewhat lessened. That wud mean the Galway Meath Down 60s and Meath Galway Cork Down Derry Donegal in 90s and the great current team Dublin team 11 to 18 all won handier All Irelands. I totally disagree with that and I have layed my reasons in depth in earlier posts.

    Anyway we will agree to disagree. The Meath team 80s v Dublin this decade would be a grea game t with the current Dublin team winning by 3 or 4 points. But it would be a great contest. Thats just my opinion and I could be right I could be long.

    So with Meath out in June Im going to take hibernation for the summer. I might just make a few comments on the Dublin split in two thread actually in support of the Dubs before I go. In that when kerry and kilkenny won 2in a row 3 in a rows in 70s 80s 90s 00s there was little fuss in gaa land. Dublin win a 3 in row they criticised way more then Cats or kingdom. That is unfair. But that is GAA world if a new team wins or team achieves something new for their county they are criticised.

    Meath were called tough, Tyrone puke football, Donegal to defensive, Clare hurler 90s to physical and Galway 80s to much handpassing and possession game in hurling were all criticised. If Kerry Cork Dubin win Sam or kilkenny Cork Tipp win liam everything is rosey in gaa land. But anyone different their achievements are more criticised. The same way when Kerry kilkenny win multiple All Irelands in a row no one bats an eyelid. The Dubs win multiple Sams in a row. There is widespread criticism of Dublin finances.

    I don't believe the theory the Dubs and money. This is just a golden generation. However there is questions about finances that should be talked about we are an amateur sport after all. But it doesnt take away from the Dubs wins.
    The issue is if Dublin keep winning 2 or 3 or 4 in a rows in the 20s and 30s. Then we are seen something unprecedented. Then there is an issue. But what we r seen is just great Dublin players achieving great things like kilkenny did in 00s and kerry did in 70s and 80s .

    Dublin sud dip in the late 20s.
    After every team has all great period team that county declines afterwards. Eg Meath team 80s 90s decline in this decade and 09s
    Down 90s team after down decline in 00s
    Down 60 teams Down decline in 70s afterwards
    Keery 75 to 86 afterwards kerry decline for 11 years
    Cavan 48 52 Cavan decline in 70s and 80s after
    kildare 27 28 Kildare decline after in 30s 40s 50s
    Wexford 14 to 18 Wexford decline afterwards in 20s 30s 40s
    Tippearey early 60s is Tipperary greatest team. Tiop have their worst period after in 70s and early 80s .

    So the Dubs should decline in 20s.I think most people don't see them declining much in 20s. But they should be winning say less Sama. 2 Sams in 20s not 3 or 4 in a rows. If Dublin win say 6 or 7 Sams in this decade they shouldn't win 6 or 7 in 20s and 30s. That would be unusual and unprecedented. Then financial Dublin clout needs to examined. Then u could see two Dublin teams in championship and Dublin been penalised. But at the moment Dublin are being unfairly criticised. They just have worked hard and yes they had a plan and invested wisely and had great work done on the ground in club's and great managers and player in this decade. But if this continues for 20s and 3os well then it is an issue. Dublin just have an All time great team at the moment .

    While people kerry and finances too being criticised for me that is unfair coz kerry is our greatest football county who have this genuis like ablity to provide truly great players. As the older generation in Meath used to say kerry are gifted. They were right.

    So I think both Dublin and kerry have been unfairly criticised for finances .
    Thats my twopence on the matter . I will post this up on Dublin split in two thread. But that is my last message in a while. The summer is going to very hectic for me personally so I will be taking of my boards ie football boots for the summer. I enjoyed all the great debates and if I was taking over threads to much I apologise and if I put the boot in to hard with my comments I do apologise.

    Have a great summer everyone, enjoy the rest of championship Im looking for to hurling knock out stages, the super 8 in football and will the Dubs achieve immortality? and win something I never thought I would live to see a football team winning 4 in a row. Will this brave Mayo team win Sam?. Are the tribesmen back in football?. How good are all these new exciting kerry footballers?. Are Donegal coming back?. Will the teams of the so far Carlow Longford and Fermanagh have more sucess? I cannot wait to find out. I just wish my beautiful county of Meath was still in the mix. Hopefully we will do better next year.

    Best of luck to everyone and enjoy the summer.
    PEACE.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭ Joe Dog


    Dublin have the greatest bench in the history of the game I don't think any team comes close to that and so regardless of all the teams you could potentially match them up with Dublins bench would give them a decent advantage in my opinion.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 898 ✭✭✭ whatnext


    Joe Dog wrote: »
    Dublin have the greatest bench in the history of the game I don't think any team comes close to that and so regardless of all the teams you could potentially match them up with Dublins bench would give them a decent advantage in my opinion.

    Bench didnt count for as much 20 years ago with 3 subs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭ Joe Dog


    whatnext wrote: »
    Bench didnt count for as much 20 years ago with 3 subs.

    even then Dublins first 3 subs would be a huge advantage to them , McManamon is probably the best super sub in GAA history.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    Sonny678 wrote: »
    But you could say that stoner the vast majority of teams in any sport. A group of players are in the wilderness winning nothing have bad loses and then a charismatic messianic manager appears on the scene and delivers sucess for a group of players who were not sucessful. That basically is the story of every sports film made in America in hollywood on a sporting team in baseball American football. And in the gaa there are so many examples of great teams having bad experiences and defeats before they r suceed. That having poor defeats and loses before a team is sucessful shouldnt lessen their greatness afterwards eg
    Galway 87 88 This is the greatest Galway team ever and the team of the 80s yet it had very bad defeats in 83 84 85 and 86 before Cooney Hayes and co turned things around

    Donegal 2012 Donegal had some bad defeats and loses before McGuiness turned them around

    Kerry 04 06 07 09 Kerry had some very bad defeat and loses to Meath in 01 Armagh 02 Tyrone 03 with D O Se T O Se Cooper before they turned things around again under Jack O Connor
    Tipperary 89 91 Tipp had some bad loses in 84 85 and 85 before they turned things around in 89
    Tippearey 01 Had some dreadful defeats to Clare before they turned things around in early 00s.
    Clare hurlers 95 97 Daly and Clare greats had record defeats before their breakthrough in 95, a record defeat to Tippearey in early 90s stands out.

    And yes the two greatest Dublin teams two of the greatest teams ever were around for good Offaly and Cork teams in early 70s and good Kerry Armagh and Tyrone teams in late 00s. It took til 74 about 7 or 9 years until keaveney won a provincial title. Cullen and keaveny started in the 60s.

    Dublin 74 76 77. Before 74 Dublin had their worst period ever. Loses to kildare and longford in early 70s, prior to 74 Dublin were a lower div 2 team at best and hadnt won a provincial title in 11 years. Players like Cullen Keaveney Doherty played with Dublin in late 60s and 70s and Dublin had some dreadful loses in that period, their worst period in Dublin football since 1900. Then Heffernan came on the scene and changed the face of Gaelic football.
    So actually the 1970s Dublin team had a very similar path to sucess as Meath teams of 80s. Both had dreadful defeats, both were in the wilderness for years and both were save by two of the greatest managers of all time eg Heffernan and Boylan.

    Dublin 11 to 18 Again so many of this all time great Dublin team had very poor results in late 00s. When Meath defeated Dublin by record 5 goals in 10 and kerry defeated by record 17 points in 09 Cluxton McMahon Sullivan Macauley Connolly Flynn A Brogan B Brogan and McMemanin were all playing. Again another example of a team having bad defeats at the start and turning things around.

    Anyway Stoner thats my last message on the matter. I have enjoyed the debate its being a good one. I respect what u say but I just wholeheartedly disagree that kerry being weaker means teams wins easier All Ireland their greatness is somewhat lessened. That wud mean the Galway Meath Down 60s and Meath Galway Cork Down Derry Donegal in 90s and the great current team Dublin team 11 to 18 all won handier All Irelands. I totally disagree with that and I have layed my reasons in depth in earlier posts.

    Anyway we will agree to disagree. The Meath team 80s v Dublin this decade would be a grea game t with the current Dublin team winning by 3 or 4 points. But it would be a great contest. Thats just my opinion and I could be right I could be long.

    So with Meath out in June Im going to take hibernation for the summer. I might just make a few comments on the Dublin split in two thread actually in support of the Dubs before I go. In that when kerry and kilkenny won 2in a row 3 in a rows in 70s 80s 90s 00s there was little fuss in gaa land. Dublin win a 3 in row they criticised way more then Cats or kingdom. That is unfair. But that is GAA world if a new team wins or team achieves something new for their county they are criticised.

    Meath were called tough, Tyrone puke football, Donegal to defensive, Clare hurler 90s to physical and Galway 80s to much handpassing and possession game in hurling were all criticised. If Kerry Cork Dubin win Sam or kilkenny Cork Tipp win liam everything is rosey in gaa land. But anyone different their achievements are more criticised. The same way when Kerry kilkenny win multiple All Irelands in a row no one bats an eyelid. The Dubs win multiple Sams in a row. There is widespread criticism of Dublin finances.

    I don't believe the theory the Dubs and money. This is just a golden generation. However there is questions about finances that should be talked about we are an amateur sport after all. But it doesnt take away from the Dubs wins.
    The issue is if Dublin keep winning 2 or 3 or 4 in a rows in the 20s and 30s. Then we are seen something unprecedented. Then there is an issue. But what we r seen is just great Dublin players achieving great things like kilkenny did in 00s and kerry did in 70s and 80s .

    Dublin sud dip in the late 20s.
    After every team has all great period team that county declines afterwards. Eg Meath team 80s 90s decline in this decade and 09s
    Down 90s team after down decline in 00s
    Down 60 teams Down decline in 70s afterwards
    Keery 75 to 86 afterwards kerry decline for 11 years
    Cavan 48 52 Cavan decline in 70s and 80s after
    kildare 27 28 Kildare decline after in 30s 40s 50s
    Wexford 14 to 18 Wexford decline afterwards in 20s 30s 40s
    Tippearey early 60s is Tipperary greatest team. Tiop have their worst period after in 70s and early 80s .

    So the Dubs should decline in 20s.I think most people don't see them declining much in 20s. But they should be winning say less Sama. 2 Sams in 20s not 3 or 4 in a rows. If Dublin win say 6 or 7 Sams in this decade they shouldn't win 6 or 7 in 20s and 30s. That would be unusual and unprecedented. Then financial Dublin clout needs to examined. Then u could see two Dublin teams in championship and Dublin been penalised. But at the moment Dublin are being unfairly criticised. They just have worked hard and yes they had a plan and invested wisely and had great work done on the ground in club's and great managers and player in this decade. But if this continues for 20s and 3os well then it is an issue. Dublin just have an All time great team at the moment .

    While people kerry and finances too being criticised for me that is unfair coz kerry is our greatest football county who have this genuis like ablity to provide truly great players. As the older generation in Meath used to say kerry are gifted. They were right.

    So I think both Dublin and kerry have been unfairly criticised for finances .
    Thats my twopence on the matter . I will post this up on Dublin split in two thread. But that is my last message in a while. The summer is going to very hectic for me personally so I will be taking of my boards ie football boots for the summer. I enjoyed all the great debates and if I was taking over threads to much I apologise and if I put the boot in to hard with my comments I do apologise.

    Have a great summer everyone, enjoy the rest of championship Im looking for to hurling knock out stages, the super 8 in football and will the Dubs achieve immortality? and win something I never thought I would live to see a football team winning 4 in a row. Will this brave Mayo team win Sam?. Are the tribesmen back in football?. How good are all these new exciting kerry footballers?. Are Donegal coming back?. Will the teams of the so far Carlow Longford and Fermanagh have more sucess? I cannot wait to find out. I just wish my beautiful county of Meath was still in the mix. Hopefully we will do better next year.

    Best of luck to everyone and enjoy the summer.
    PEACE.
    Sorry for quoting the whole piece
    If you don't believe in the connection between the Dubs and money then why haven't Dublin produced crops of players like this in the past?

    The money wasn't there before 2001 and so they were just the same as every other county. Doing their best on a meagre budget relying on voluntary coaches


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭ Joe Dog


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Sorry for quoting the whole piece
    If you don't believe in the connection between the Dubs and money then why haven't Dublin produced crops of players like this in the past?

    The money wasn't there before 2001 and so they were just the same as every other county. Doing their best on a meagre budget relying on voluntary coaches

    Dublin clearly weren't as well organised as a whole county in the past they are now.The money has made some difference but not all the difference as they massively underachieved for so long and in the last decade they've been getting closer to what they should have been for a long while.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭ Sonny678


    nice_guy80 wrote:
    Sorry for quoting the whole piece If you don't believe in the connection between the Dubs and money then why haven't Dublin produced crops of players like this in the past?

    nice_guy80 wrote:
    The money wasn't there before 2001 and so they were just the same as every other county. Doing their best on a meagre budget relying on voluntary coaches

    Niceguy80 Check my response in Dublin split thread. Thanks.


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