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Planning permission for shed/workshop

  • 10-06-2018 7:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭ woody84


    I'm knocking down an old stone dwelling house on my land about 50 metres from my house. I plan on erecting a steel shed/workshop of roughly 30ft x 20ft give it take. It will be partly built on top of the old houses foundation. Do I need planning for this?


Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BryanF


    Yes


  • Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭ woody84


    Does it matter thats its a pre made shed that will just bolted down to a conctere base?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,919 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    woody84 wrote: »
    I'm knocking down an old stone dwelling house on my land about 50 metres from my house. I plan on erecting a steel shed/workshop of roughly 30ft x 20ft give it take. It will be partly built on top of the old houses foundation. Do I need planning for this?

    Is this a habitable building?
    LA might not be happy if you doze it


  • Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭ woody84


    No it's been used as an old shed for years. But it's falling apart. Part of the gable has collapsed so its more of a hazard now


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BryanF


    woody84 wrote: »
    Does it matter thats its a pre made shed that will just bolted down to a conctere base?

    No


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  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ sm3ar


    BryanF wrote: »
    No

    Is there a certain size of shed below which you don't need planning permission?


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler


    sm3ar wrote: »
    Is there a certain size of shed below which you don't need planning permission?
    See the exemption here - Class 3.


  • Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭ sm3ar


    muffler wrote: »
    See the exemption here - Class 3.

    Thanks. Reading through loads of legal documents is not much fun. Does anyone know off hand?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭ BryanF


    sm3ar wrote: »
    Thanks. Reading through loads of legal documents is not much fun. Does anyone know off hand?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116852606&postcount=8


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler


    There's very little reading in that document I linked to when you scroll to Class 3. In summary the max exempted size is 25 sq metres. 4 m high with a pitched roof and 3 m high for any other roof type. Has to be located behind the front building line of the house and there must be a min. of 25 m of open space remaining.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1 aonedavy


    is the 25 sqm an internal or external requirement? i was told it was internal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,374 ✭✭✭ Tow


    It is external for a shed. Internal for a house extension. Others will we be on here to tell you it is internal. So instead of listening to random dudes on the Internet, get it in writing from your local CoCo. 😀



  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭ xDerp


    Are there actual examples of the 25 external being used to have structures removed/altered where the internal area is under 25?

    The "doing work around the house" leaflet from the office of the planning regulator specifies "floor" area (I can't post links),

    "7. Can I build a garage? You can build a garage, store, shed, greenhouse or similar structure as long as: • no part of the structure is constructed or placed forward of the front wall of the house; • the height of the structure does not exceed four metres, (if it has a tiled or slated pitched roof), or three metres (if it has any other roof type); • the external finishes of any garage, store, shed or other structure constructed to the side of a house must match the finish of the house, including the roof of the structure where that structure has a tiled or slated roof; A Guide to Doing Work around the House • 6 • the floor area of the structure, taken on its own or in conjunction with any similar structures does not exceed 25 square metres; • the area of private open space reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house, at the side or rear of the house is not reduced below 25 square metres; and • the structure is not used for human habitation, for keeping pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses, or any purpose other than for normal domestic purposes i.e. not for commercial businesses"

    the statute book says "total area".

    Can it really still be interpretation? Let's say somebody measures internal and 3 years later another person comes out and declares it an external area measurement?

    What does the "external" area include? foundations? roof overhangs? external walls? Is this actually written/defined anywhere and is there anywhere that "total area" is tied back to a well-defined measurement?



  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler


    The external area would be whats called the footprint i.e. the area of ground occupied by the building including the walls. Floor area is measured internally i.e. the area enclosed by the external walls.

    Hard to believe but in this day and age its still down to interpretation. Down through the years I have always worked on the basis of actual floor area especially when certifying this type of building and just to note that this was never ever questioned. However Im fairly sure that someone referred to a Bord Pleanala ruling that stated the word "area" in relation to sheds/garages/stores would include the area of the external walls. Im not 100% certain on that so maybe someone else can clarify.



  • Subscribers Posts: 36,219 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    ^ 100%

    even ABP itself has had different interpretations of whether floor areas of sheds are overall or internal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭ xDerp


    Hmm, I might keep an eye out for a consaw in that case! I've been working on about 22 internal with double skin and insulated cavity so the outside is around 26 and a bit. The planning leaflet seemed like the final authority.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭ chooseusername


    Original question is an old one I know, but my answer would be ;

    build your shed elsewhere, get planning if required.

    Leave the old stone building alone and maybe look at making it weatherproof .

    Post no.13 by Tow is the correct answer, if you want to go down that route.



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