New (ish) car

Daisy 55

Thinking about a 171 or thereabouts.
At the moment considering a Hyundai Touscon, Audi A3 or Toyota Avensis. Any thoughts?

redlead

Daisy 55 wrote: »

Thinking about a 171 or thereabouts.
At the moment considering a Hyundai Touscon, Audi A3 or Toyota Avensis. Any thoughts?

They're three completely different types of cars. Why an A3? Even the A4 is smaller than the Avensis. That's a very random selection.

Daisy 55

Sorry, of course. Meant A4!
They’re just the ones which have appealed most so far.

redlead

Unless you are big into having a drivers car which I'm guessing you are not if you are considering an Avensis then I think the Tuscon is your best bet of the three. Easy to park, plenty of space, reliable and there are tonnes of them around so you'd probably get a decent deal. You could check out the Kia sportage too as it's is pretty much the same car but might be a tad bit cheaper.

It all depends on a lot of factors though, do you have a family, are you a city driver or will you be doing lots of motorway trips etc budget too, like a 171 A4 will cost a lot more than the other cars.

Daisy 55

Put off by avensis 1.8 Diesel engine. Have a 2l at the moment. Has good spec though.
All three have pluses and minuses. Tempted by Audi though!

9935452

Does the 171 avensis come in a 1.8 diesel. .
AFAIK they have the 2.0 bmw engine .
Googling shows they come with a 1.6 diesel too

Old diesel

Might be worth looking out for Skoda Superb with 2.0 tdi and DSG (auto) gearbox.

Really nice car with great comfort (on 17 inch wheels) and good on fuel. Very refined with the DSG gearbox too.

Tucson is probably okay but the 1.7 is (on paper) quite slow. 13.7 secs 0 to 60. Although I've seen commentary that they don't feel as slow as that figure implies.

Passat looks nice in estate and if you get one with the part leather/part alcantara trim - is one of the few cars where a black interior is relatively pleasant.

CIP4

A4 is the nicest out of them 3 but then I have one so am probably a bit biased. But Audi is a premium brand over Toyota and Hyundai so will cost more to buy for like with like spec. It’s worth driving the 3 of them and see what you think.

ba_barabus

You'll get good value on the Avensis. They've just gone out of production and currently it doesn't look like they'll be replaced. Add to that they're in a market segment that people aren't buying from.

Out of the 3 I reckon you'd get the best value from them but make sure you get a 2litre

Leonard Hofstadter

All newer Avensis diesels, be they the 1.6 or 2.0 engines, use the same BMW N47 engine (the one with the timing chain problem).

James Bond Junior

If diesel isn't a must I would suggest the Kia niro hybrid. A pal bought one and I was very impressed.

James Bond Junior

James Bond Junior wrote: »

If diesel isn't a must I would suggest the Kia niro hybrid. A pal bought one and I was very impressed.

Impressed with what exactly?

OP, what are your requirements from a car and what is your budget? What other preferences should we take into consideration?

colm_mcm

captainspeed wrote: »

All newer Avensis diesels, be they the 1.6 or 2.0 engines, use the same BMW N47 engine (the one with the timing chain problem).

Don’t they have a different version of the N47 to the ones that gave timing chain issues?

ba_barabus

colm_mcm wrote: »

Don’t they have a different version of the N47 to the ones that gave timing chain issues?

Yep. Theyre also a little down on power which may help and have much shorter service intervals.

And they have a Toyota warranty.

James Bond Junior

JayZeus wrote: »

Impressed with what exactly?

OP, what are your requirements from a car and what is your budget? What other preferences should we take into consideration?

Nice to drive for what it is. Very well specced and spacious. Interior quality has come on leaps and bounds.

Leonard Hofstadter

ba_barabus wrote: »

Yep. Theyre also a little down on power which may help and have much shorter service intervals.

And they have a Toyota warranty.

Same power and torque as the BMW equivalents (Mini Cooper D for the 1.6, 118d and 318d for the 2.0s). They changed the DMF for sure, I don't know if they changed anything else (although I heard they did). Obviously being transverse engined means it will be much easier to change the chain than in a BMW with the same engine.

The 20,000 km service interval will help for people who follow the manufacturer's guidelines for sure, BMW used to allow them do up to 30,000 km (and more) depending on driving style etc and that definitely contributed to the problems they had.

It wasn't anything to do with power, and the chain itself is actually fine (the N57 six cylinder uses the same chain and doesn't have the problem but it has a much bigger oil capacity and six cylinders so is much smoother running), it's because of the sprocket which is too sharp and causes the chain to stretch which leads to the chain and ancillaries being replaced.

captainspeed

captainspeed wrote: »

.... it's because of the sprocket which is too sharp and causes the chain to stretch which leads to the chain and ancillaries being replaced.

You were doing so well with the armchair expertise, up until here. Total and utter horse****. No engineering basis whatsoever. More of the usual Pub Talk being regurgitated as something factual when it’s anything but that.

That kind of post impresses nobody. It doesn’t help anyone either, so why bother?

biko

captainspeed, can you find a source for your claim?

JayZeus, you don't mention a source to back up your opposite claim either. And try to be more eloquent in your response ok?

biko

biko wrote: »

captainspeed, can you find a source for your claim?

JayZeus, you don't mention a source to back up your opposite claim either. And try to be more eloquent in your response ok?

Fair point.

On the opposite claim, I shouldn’t have to mention a source when I point out that Captainspeed isn’t making a valid point. [Edit: Just to be clear, that's not intended to be an argument with a mod instruction, the following is the logic behind the disagreement with the points Captainspeed is attempting to make. In truth, I can't easily refer to a single source for something that's well recognised regarding chaingear wear, including on cam-gear]

Gear teeth on a camshaft sprocket don’t become longer, in so far as the point of the hardened gear tooth doesn’t extend further than it originally did, leading to an increase of the external diameter of the chains turn around the sprocket.

The cutout or valley into which each chain link (or pin/pivot bush) seats between each tooth may wear due to a lack of adequate lubrication, causing the pivot bush and sprocket to wear further, allowing the chain to extend past the capacity or range of adjustment afforded by the tensioner. The tooth could wear down, which when combined with a cavitated seat and worn link pivots and perhaps some degree of stretch (nothing close to what people imagine) will all combine to allow the chain to develop excessive throw as it rounds the sprockets, shedding lubricant and compounding the issue further by malforming the thrust face of the tooth, in some cases turning the teeth into something resembling a shark fin.

Without a careful examination of the chain and gears, guides and tensioners, Captainspeed is just propogating misinformation about the causes and not basing his declaration of how the fault occurs on anything other than anecdotal evidence and only a partial understanding of the underlying failure causes.

Poor or insufficient lubrication allows wear in a variety of components, leading to a compound failure of the timing equipment. The tooth doesn’t get longer causing the chain to stretch. That’s nonsense.

Old diesel

Bottom line is the BMW engine in the Avensis DID and DOES have a history of timing chain issues.

I don't know how it's going to perform in the Avensis - but what you have is a car whose engine has a questionable history.

It's not an amazing car per se been a 2009 design.

I would suggest for the OP it's a 2 horse race.

Hyundai for sensible reasons - warranty, reliability, practicality.

Audi if you want more style and you think the interior looks nicer etc.

For me the case for the Toyota looks weak as for me - the Hyundai will do the sensible things you'd have traditionally bought an Avensis.

In bigger engined 4wd versions the Tuscon even has "nice car" potential. Although as usual you pay more for the extra things

Old diesel

And imo the Tucson looks a lot nicer inside with leather. I'd only have a cloth interior if I couldnt find leather in my budget

Daisy 55

Hi all
Thanks for replying. Ended up going to UK and importing an Audi. Main Audi dealer and significant savings.